ASC-J9

[Rabid]

Could this stuff be helpful to those not responding to finasteride or androgen blockers?

Or, could it be helpful used in conjunction with androgen blockers to keep any upregulation in check?

 

[Ende]

Everything you need to know about ASC-J9

Possible to buy ASC-J9 now, anyone with experiences?

 

[zayin]

I occasionally use it (2-3 times a week), havent seen regrowth or anything yet but too early to tell. The reason I only use it a few times a week is because it stains your scalp (and pillows, clothes etc) and I therefore dont find it very practical....

I've got some...PM me if you're interested

 

[yanez]

Could this stuff be helpful to those not responding to finasteride or androgen blockers?

Or, could it be helpful used in conjunction with androgen blockers to keep any upregulation in check?

I think so me too
ASC-J9 could have a better effect used together with a androgen receptor blocker

the main problem of androgen receptor blocker is that they can keep blocked the receptor only for a while ,then the receptor reply itself and it's no more keep blocked ..so using ASC-J9 if this will not degrade all receptors at least this could downregulate the turn-over of the receptor and give a better force to AR blocker

I think I will use fluridil and ASC-J9 together then

 

[Ende]

I don't think you would benefit from ASC-J9 if you're using an anti-androgen like RU58841 or CB-03-01, but I think you would, if you're using a reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride.

 

[yanez]

I don't think you would benefit from ASC-J9 if you're using an anti-androgen like RU58841 or CB-03-01, but I think you would, if you're using a reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride.

Why? 5 alpha reductase inhibitors reduce the peripheral production of DHT to a certain percentage .. .. .. not 100% as the DHT continues to enter to the cell nucleus and activate bald gene .. but some people assumed that this activation being become not settled on time and not costant it allows the act of inhibit the gene expression even if finasteride does not inhibit the production of dht at 100%

adding a process of receptor downregulation what could be useful at ?

I think if you choose the strategy about the receptors beeing degraded or blocked topically at that point is useless to reduce the production of dht .. further that is also reduced throughout the body having the heavy side effects many people talk about ..

 

[Ende]

With finasteride, 30% DHT is still being produced, and other androgens, especially testosterone, miniaturizes the follicles too. That's why I think ASC-J9 could be useful. If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

 

[yanez]

With finasteride, 30% DHT is still being produced, and other androgens, especially testosterone, miniaturizes the follicles too. That's why I think ASC-J9 could be useful.

ok

If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

yes true I thought about those "normal "androgen blocker like ciproterone or spironolactone or fluridil that don't armour the follicle from every androgens.

then anyway with these that armour the follicle fina is useless too no?

 

[Rabid]

With finasteride, 30% DHT is still being produced, and other androgens, especially testosterone, miniaturizes the follicles too. That's why I think ASC-J9 could be useful. If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

With RU58841 or CB-03-01 there's a one-to-one neutralization between AR and AR blocker, so you would need to keep increasing the dose to block the growing number of receptors (assuming upregulation does occur with time, or perhaps quite quickly in some of us), but with ASC-J9 there's a one-to-many relationship because one ASC-19 molecule can destroy multiple AR's, one after another, over and over again?

 

[Rabid]

There's gotta be a way to get rid if the staining... :sobbing:

 

[yanez]

If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

I don't know well these AR blocker ( RU58841 or CB-03-01) ..but I knew that
the main problem of androgen receptor blocker is that they can keep blocked the receptor only for a while ,then the receptor reply itself and it's no more keep blocked ..so using ASC-J9 if this will not degrade all receptors at least this could downregulate the turn-over of the receptor and give a better force to AR blocker

 

[Ende]

With RU58841 or CB-03-01 there's a one-to-one neutralization between AR and AR blocker, so you would need to keep increasing the dose to block the growing number of receptors (assuming upregulation does occur with time, or perhaps quite quickly in some of us)

That's what you and several other guys assume...

 

[Rabid]

then anyway with these that armour the follicle fina is useless too no?

I don't know if they're any studies on that. Most people probably do get off finasteride when they go on RU.

Some continue on finasteride with the thought that it will provide extra back-up protection, assuming they didn't get on RU because they wanted to avoid finasteride side effects in the first place.

I don't know well these AR blocker Ru and CB) ..but I knew that
the main problem of androgen receptor blocker is that they can keep blocked the receptor only for a while ,then the receptor reply itself and it's no more keep blocked ..so using ASC-J9 if this will not degrade all receptors at least this could downregulate the turn-over of the receptor and give a better force to AR blocker

I don't think that's a real concern with RU or CB. RU can block the receptors for 24 hours, and CB I assume from the trials can block for a few days.

 

[Ende]

If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

I don't know well these AR blocker ( RU58841 or CB-03-01) ..but I knew that
the main problem of androgen receptor blocker is that they can keep blocked the receptor only for a while ,then the receptor reply itself and it's no more keep blocked ..so using ASC-J9 if this will not degrade all receptors at least this could downregulate the turn-over of the receptor and give a better force to AR blocker

Some of the androgen receptors will be unprotected for some hours if you're using an anti-androgen every day, but I don't think that's a problem. I think that a hair shed when the follicle gets miniaturized, and I believe that the follicles recover a lot faster from relief of androgens, than they degenerate from exposure.

 

[Ende]

I believe that the reason some follicles will be unprotected, despite of using an anti-androgen every day, is because once it's bound to the AR, the drug doesn't get replaced before it's gone.

 

[Ende]

then anyway with these that armour the follicle fina is useless too no?

Yes.

 

[yanez]

If you're using anti-androgens like RU58841 or CB-03-01, no androgens are able to bind the follicles, so I don't see the point in downregulating the receptors.

I don't know well these AR blocker ( RU58841 or CB-03-01) ..but I knew that
the main problem of androgen receptor blocker is that they can keep blocked the receptor only for a while ,then the receptor reply itself and it's no more keep blocked ..so using ASC-J9 if this will not degrade all receptors at least this could downregulate the turn-over of the receptor and give a better force to AR blocker

Some of the androgen receptors will be unprotected for some hours if you're using an anti-androgen every day, but I don't think that's a problem. I think that a hair shed when the follicle gets miniaturized, and I believe that the follicles recover a lot faster from relief of androgens, than they degenerate from exposure.

I don't understand well this
I think follicle remain unprotected it's a big problem
have you studies that consider these theories?

I believe that the reason some follicles will be unprotected, despite of using an anti-androgen every day, is because once it's bound to the AR, the drug doesn't get replaced before it's gone.

I don't understand neither this..if the bind is strong and no receptor born before the last ones die ..what's the problem to having a binded AR ?

sorry maybe it's for my poor english

 

[yanez]

then anyway with these that armour the follicle fina is useless too no?

Yes.

ok Thanks a lot

anyway I think that with normal AR blocker (spironolactone,flutamide,fluridil,ciproterone) ASC-J9 could remain a good integration

now I have to inform better on Ru and CB

 

[Ende]

I don't understand well this
I think follicle remain unprotected it's a big problem
have you studies that consider these theories?

It's just for some hours. It's an assumption based on how anti-androgens works.

I don't understand neither this..if the bind is strong and no receptor born before the last ones die ..what's the problem to having a binded AR ?

sorry maybe it's for my poor english

What? Anti-androgens only blocks the androgen receptors temporary. Day one; you apply CB-03-01 and all the androgen receptors gets blocked. Day two; all androgen receptors are still blocked. 12 hours later; 20% androgen receptors are free, and get blocked with the next application. Soon after, 20% more gets free, and they'll be unprotected 'till the next application. This is just a bad example. See what I mean?

And before you bring up ASC-J9 again, remember that I believe that the follicles recover faster from relief of androgens than they degenerate from exposure.

 

[blaze]

I don't understand well this
I think follicle remain unprotected it's a big problem
have you studies that consider these theories?

It's just for some hours. It's an assumption based on how anti-androgens works.

I don't understand neither this..if the bind is strong and no receptor born before the last ones die ..what's the problem to having a binded AR ?

sorry maybe it's for my poor english

What? Anti-androgens only blocks the androgen receptors temporary. Day one; you apply CB-03-01 and all the androgen receptors gets blocked. Day two; all androgen receptors are still blocked. 12 hours later; 20% androgen receptors are free, and get blocked with the next application. Soon after, 20% more gets free, and they'll be unprotected 'till the next application. This is just a bad example. See what I mean?

And before you bring up ASC-J9 again, remember that I believe that the follicles recover faster from relief of androgens than they degenerate from exposure.

I doubt very much that CB will saturate ALL and EVERY androgen receptor. But then again it does not have to. You only need to block so many. There are many AR's on each follicle not just one AR per follicle. As long as you keep your hair follicles androgen stimulus below the threshold then you wont lose anymore hair.

The threshold is determined by your genetics. Thats why some can use finasteride for over a decade and not lose anymore hair, but other will only manage to slow their loss down. Aggressive Androgenetic Alopecia needs to get a castration like environment in the scalp. Even castrates still have androgens, they have as much DHT as a finasteride user roughly, but they dont lose anymore hair. Their Testosterone levels are WAY down too. So even though they have DHT and small amounts of Test it isnt enough to further the balding process. There isnt enough to reach that "threshold".

So not ALL the AR's need to be blocked...just most of them. And yes, some with more aggressive hairloss IMO will have to use more CB than someone with milder Androgenetic Alopecia.