Bald Reddit Group. Lots Of Interesting Threads.

[karatekid]

You ready? (disclaimer; I don't agree completely with incels but looks are very important hence we're trying to fight hairloss)

• 5.1 Women feel sexual disgust when they imagine even talking to an unattractive man
• 5.2 Across multiple studies; attractiveness determines romantic evaluations equally for both sexes
• 5.3 70% of women would avoid someone solely based on their looks, compared to 31% of men
• 5.4 Love at first sight can be predicted by physical attractiveness
• 5.5 Looks are most important in speed dating
• 5.6 Looks are most important in video dating
• 5.7 Looks are most important in blind dating
• 5.8 It is Looks > Personality > Money for both genders, but women lie more about it
• 5.9 Your looks define perception of your personality in online dating
• 5.10 A man's personality only matters to a woman if he meets her basic looks cutoff first
• 5.11 Being unattractive reduces men's chances of finding partners, but not women's
• 5.12 In short-term dating and provided many options, women care more about looks than men
• 5.13 'Very unattractive' women are more likely to be married than other women
• 5.14 Women are less likely to use a condom with a more attractive male partner
• 5.15 A man's masculinity and physical attractiveness predicts a woman's chance of orgasm
• 5.16 A man's physical attractiveness to other women predicts his partner's chance of orgasm
• 5.17 The attractiveness gap in a couple predicts how long they wait before engaging in sex

Bonus studies:

• 6.13 Bald men and men with thinning hair are perceived as less attractive

• 13.1 Women rate 80% of men as "below medium", while men rate women on a bell curve
• 13.2 In sexually liberated societies, only women decide when sex occurs

As I said, those are observations, and your conclusions to those observations are wrong. You dont understand the basic differences in nature and behavior between man and women.
It eventually comes down to the fact that men just want to have sex, they dont need that emotional connection with a woman to have the desire for her, moreover, a man will usually settle for whatever he can get, of course he wants to f*** 10s all the time, but if a 5 comes up, he wouldnt say no. Women usually need that connection in order to feel attracted. So if there is a random guy she knows nothing about - the only thing she knows about him is how he looks. If he is average looking, of course she will have no interest to have any sexual interaction with him, she rather use a dildo than have sex with him. But why wouldnt she? Imagine you could just f*** any girl that you want, like literally go to any girl and f*** her - will you go for average looking girls? of course not.
But, for a woman, when she gets to know the person, she can develop attraction to him, which is something that exists much less in men, I personally really dont get that - if I think a girl is unattractive, no amount of chemistry / good personality will change that. And this is exactly the point - women are more forgivable for physical flows, once they get to know you. For men, it's harder to ignore the physical appearance even when there is a connection, but since they have less choice they just would take whatever they can achieve. It's very simple.

Therefore in all those 'researches', when a woman thinks about some random guy, for her the random guy is unattractive, and since she knows nothing about personality, she will have zero attraction to that random guy, and her answers for those survey will be accordingly.
There is that youtuber connor murphy, he is very good looking and probably a 10, he does those stupid videos. In one video he was going around disguised, showing girls picture of himself shirtless and ask what they would rate him - lots of girls said 8, 7 or even 6. One girl even said the (stupid) truth - "I will give him 7 cause I dont know him". I say stupid because it literally shows that women often dont have the mental ability to disconnect the physical appearance from the personality - they see some big muscular jock and they instantly think he is some arrogant and idiot, and their attraction to him goes down. This is also the reason why most of the surveys that lay on women opinion in those matters arent reliable, women are not very logical when it come to those subjects and often lie to themselves.
Women are sometimes conclude your personality from your look in other ways too - when they see some random guy, there is higher chance that he will be a creep if he is ugly, since statistically it's true - if someone is good looking then he naturally have more confidence, have more success with women, and dont need to act like a creep that chasing and harassing women. But, if she talks to that good looking guy and he happens to be really a creep, or just really akward or something - her attraction to him immediately drops. Can you imagine the opposite case? If you see some hot girl and you 2 starting to talk, there is very little she can do that will make you losing interest, because everything she will do you will just think it's 'cute' or 'cool' just because she is pretty.

So at the bottom line - it's NOT that women care about physical appearance more than men, but it's all about choices, standards and supply/demand. women have much more choice than men, their minimal standards are much higher (but when Im saying standards Im talking about physical + personality + chemistry + other traits combined), and the demand for women is much higher.

After saying all that, I will just say that I didnt go through all those studies you posted of course, just a few. If you have one specific study that actually contradict what im saying then tell me which one and I will respond to it and we can discuss, Im not going to read all those stuff.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

I say stupid because it literally shows that women often dont have the mental ability to disconnect the physical appearance from the personality

Not only can't you contribute anything but your 'life-experience' which boils down to a wall of bro-science, you are also constantly contradicting yourself. If women wouldn't have the mental capability to disconnect attractiveness from personality how does that make them more forgiving of physical flaws in men? This claim is making the very opposite point of what you are trying to argue for. You are saying that women don't only not consider someone as a mate because of his looks, they also think of him as a person of lesser character.

Ah guys, you have to be careful with all these internet wisdom.
And spreading that stuff won't help.
It's not that easy...
Even if your not born with most beautiful genetics, you still can be attractive.
I guess going out more is way more helpful than these incel stats.
You always see attractive men who struggle with women because they lack other things and you ll always find less attractive men beeing more successful, because they can talk like a machine gun, know how to flirt, or something else...
Of course looks matter, but they're not the only key for constant success.
Dating apps might be a different story though, but even then... Hot profile pics won't make your first date a success.

Yo bruh, you are very predictable. I knew that after being asked for data we would get some strawman pep-talk on how one shouldn't be an incel after providing it. We are not looking for dating tips, afaik both of us are in relationships. Initially we were just refuting the claim that 'women are more forgiving on looks than men' on a factual basis. No data supports this claim and a lot of data proposes that the opposite is actually true. It's an old narrative which seems to be at the very best outdated if it was ever true in the first place, let's just acknowledge that and keep our personal politics out of it.

 

[karatekid]

First of all, these are studies, one can debate about the quality of each one them for sure but for the most part these are all legit. And I understand the difference between a man and a woman, it seems you do not though.

A wall of text and not one serious attempt at trying to debunk any of my studies? Weak. So you say looks aren't important for men? Let's be serious here, why are you on a hairloss forum? If hair didn't matter for a man's looks, this forum would be empty and you would not be on here either.

You underestimate the importance of looks for a man, incels overestimate the importance of looks. And of course there are more factors in play that decide if a woman is attracted to you, so I agree with a big part you're saying.

Anyway, the western world has changed a lot and I would argue looks have become even more important for men than ever before. Social media, hollywood,... all have contributed to a more superficial world. Again we can see this in studies, more and more men are incel than ever before, women having higher standards than before when it comes to looks is definitely one of the causes.

View attachment 138671
Adult celibacy rates in America from the NORC General Social Survey (Washington Post, 2019)

As you can see tons of studies debunk this bullshit quote from you:

I also think that women much more forgiving about physical flaws than men, but still my hair is very important to me.

Studies suggest the opposite, men are more forgiving about physcial flaws. Your opinion or anecdotes are worthless, the studies are very clear on this part.

• 5.3 70% of women would avoid someone solely based on their looks, compared to 31% of men

• 5.10 A man's personality only matters to a woman if he meets her basic looks cutoff first
• 5.11 Being unattractive reduces men's chances of finding partners, but not women's
• 5.12 In short-term dating and provided many options, women care more about looks than men
• 5.13 'Very unattractive' women are more likely to be married than other women

• 
  
  
  • 6.11 Facial attractiveness contributes more to overall attractiveness than body, particularly in men

• 
  
  
  • 13.1 Women rate 80% of men as "below medium", while men rate women on a bell curve

There are tons more studies, but these suffice to end you delusions.

Seems like you didnt even read a word from my wall of text.
I didnt say once that looks arent important to men. I didnt even underestimate the importance of look, and didnt even slightly implied it. Looks is very important, and surely in today's world. A good looking men will have MUCH more success with women, no questions. And if you ask me it's even more important to a man to be good looking than to a woman, in order to have a fulfilling life. No doubt that women standards for looks got higher than the past either.
What I said is: Women, in general, put less emphasis on looks than men. There is a BIG difference here. How those 2 facts work out? just read my wall of text again. My point that I tried to make was clear - on the overall considerations that woman take into account, the personality take more weight, if you want to quantify it - women will go for 60% look and 40% personality, while men go for 80% look 20% personality. Those are just random and stupid numbers of course, the point was to show the idea that as part of the 100%, the personality takes bigger part for women, therefore the looks part is smaller. I dont even understand why I need to explain this, isnt it clear? Just take random girl who has boyfriend and ask her "Who would you rather have sex with right now, your boyfriend or this hot model guy?" Im sure majority of girls would say their boyfriend. If you ask the same thing a guy who has girlfriend, he will want to f*** the hot insta model without a doubt. Im not saying he will do it, because he wont cheat his girlfriend of course, but his desire to fuk this hot girl will be much higher, unlike the girl who only wants her partner because she has this connection with him.
Understand my point and dont put words into my mouth. All those studies still dont contradict what Im saying.

Now, to all this celibacy thing, although it doesnt have alot to do with my argument I was making, I will tell you what my point of view on this.
The truth is, that in today's world, a woman has much lower need for a man, and this is the cold truth. In the past centuries the marriage institute was solid, and it benefited the women alot - they got their financial security, physical security, affection, attention, relationship, etc.
Today, women work, and we live in an era where even the average person can afford to himself anything he needs, so they dont need any more financial security, physical security is practically useless today, the attention they get from the social media and people around them as much as they need, for the affection part - lots of women will just have enough with a baby or a pet (which is not the case for men usually), sex she can get whenever she wants of course, and for the social needs - it's much easier for a woman to have good social relations. So overall the need for a partner goes down alot. While the men's needs are still there - affection, sex, relationship - he needs a woman for those. So that's why women raise their standards - because they can live without a man, and they rather do so, unless someone really special will come up, again unlike a man that will take whatever low level woman he can find just so he could f*ck something in the meanwhile.
Those just my thoughts, everybody is welcome to tell me it's all wrong....

Having said all that, those are just my general points of view, I myself dont have problem to get a girl, Im here because I have a BDD as I mentioned before and I just cant stand the fact that im losing hair. very simple. nothing to do with women.

 

[karatekid]

Not only can't you contribute anything but your 'life-experience' which boils down to a wall of bro-science, you are also constantly contradicting yourself. If women wouldn't have the mental capability to disconnect attractiveness from personality how does that make them more forgiving of physical flaws in men? This claim is making the very opposite point of what you are trying to argue for. You are saying that women don't only not consider someone as a mate because of his looks, they also think of him as a person of lesser character.

Why cant I contribute anything but my life experience? I just wrote whole passage about my views, ok so I gave one video as an example, but I didnt mean that this video PROVE anything, it was just to demonstrate you what I mean in general sense. What you want me to show you? studies? A study worth sh*t if you dont interpret it correctly.

You ask how women are more forgiving of physical flaws in men if they dont have mental capability to disconnect attractiveness from personality - very simple, once they get to know you, if they like your personality, they became more forgiving about your physical flows, it's not even conscious thing mostly, this is how their mind often works. Even if they had some image of you based on your looks, after they get to know you they of course understand their previous perception on you was wrong, and they might even end up liking you. You get it now?? do I still contradict myself?

You say I keep contradicting myself because you think one-sided, and see everything as black and white, while Im trying to be objective

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

What you want me to show you? studies? A study worth sh*t if you dont interpret it correctly.

Yes, exactly. Provide studies and interpret them correctly or show me where I interpreted them incorrectly.

You ask how women are more forgiving of physical flaws in men if they dont have mental capability to disconnect attractiveness from personality - very simple, once they get to know you, if they like your personality, they became more forgiving about your physical flows, it's not even conscious thing mostly, this is how their mind often works. Even if they had some image of you based on your looks, after they get to know you they of course understand their previous perception on you was wrong, and they might even end up liking you. You get it now?? do I still contradict myself?

One might say that it's much harder to develop a relationship after leaving such a bad impression, so that secondary characteristic would be merely academic because it doesn't come into play often? There are studies about how important the first seconds of initial contact are for the rest of the relationship too (romantic or non-romantic). Even IF this was true, that wouldn't make women more forgiving of physical flaws...the whole thing would be hard to quantify and to avoid bullshit one would best be advised to say that women are merely different in their approach to attractiveness.
But most importantly you don't have any proof for this claim anyways.

 

[karatekid]

Yes, exactly. Provide studies and interpret them correctly or show me where I interpreted them incorrectly.


One might say that it's much harder to develop a relationship after leaving such a bad impression, so that secondary characteristic would be merely academic because it doesn't come into play often? There are studies about how important the first seconds of initial contact are for the rest of the relationship too (romantic or non-romantic). Even IF this was true, that wouldn't make women more forgiving of physical flaws...the whole thing would be hard to quantify and to avoid bullshit one would best be advised to say that women are merely different in their approach to attractiveness.
But most importantly you don't have any proof for this claim anyways.

Im not gonna show you any study cause im not doing a f*cking thesis about this sh*t. Im just saying what I think about how those stuff works from my observation and understanding of male/female nature. That's it. You call it bro science, I dont even know what the hell it means, I just call it an argument. Im not backing up every word or opinion I express with science.

And yes, of course it's harder to start something with woman that dont find you attractive at first place, but this is why setups like bar/clubs/tinder are bad options for unattractive men, they will have much better chance in the work place or any other place that they get to know the person because they are at the same circle, and not because they approach her out of nowhere. The thing about the first seconds is more for a job interview or something. Few seconds will have zero effect on long lasting relationship ( as I said assume a coworkers relationship for example).

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Im not gonna show you any study cause im not doing a f*cking thesis about this sh*t. Im just saying what I think about how those stuff works from my observation and understanding of male/female nature. That's it. You call it bro science, I dont even know what the hell it means, I just call it an argument. Im not backing up every word or opinion I express with science.

Neither are Pigeon or me, but reading ain't that hard. We can tell each other anecdotes all day about how you experience women to be more forgiving with appearance and I experience them to be...I don't know...multi-tentacled vagina monsters from the planet Venus or something. But without any foundation in data it is all pretty futile.

 

[TomRiddle]

Let's see the sources of these studies, the way they were conducted, the number of people that were in them, the statistics and you will understand it then. The internet is full of sh*t, it always was, it's worst than televisions and media but in the same time, it has it's benefits. But as usual, like in real life also, the sheep won't benefit ever from it, nothing new, human nature at it's finest, only worst this time and with this generation, because they are the most neglected and non educated and misinformed generations that ever existed on earth. Even cave men were more educated than these useless shithead apes that only read random things without understanding sh*t.

Somebody once said that with all the information and knowledge available these days, people are getting more and more retarded, stupid and misinformed, and everything around us suggests that, especially the internet and it's toxic and fucked up culture.

 

[Matt3535]

Imagine just spending a tiny bit of all this energy we're wasting here on things like hobbies or just living your life.
For example, I wouldn't consider myself too attractive but I can talk and I'm a good all-around person. I have character. I can show that.
i.e.: I'm doing a podcast through whichI have met three women so far. Kinda weird, but it's whatever.
Just... do something to get noticed. Cry as much as you want about how unfair it is, but also do something on the side. Jesus Christ, this isn't rocket science.

 

[TomRiddle]

Imagine just spending a tiny bit of all this energy we're wasting here on things like hobbies or just living your life.
For example, I wouldn't consider myself too attractive but I can talk and I'm a good all-around person. I have character. I can show that.
i.e.: I'm doing a podcast through whichI have met three women so far. Kinda weird, but it's whatever.
Just... do something to get noticed. Cry as much as you want about how unfair it is, but also do something on the side. Jesus Christ, this isn't rocket science.

Yeah, just imagine heh....

 

[TomRiddle]

True. This particular study though looks legit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high

Yeah but there are so many factors that contribute to this, it's even proved that our semen volume and quality is dropping, besides the testosterone level of healthy men, and from what some studies show, maybe that rise in estrogen and stress hormones is what is really making these young kids bald way faster than earlier generations.

But who knows exactly, there are so many factors, from online dating, to unrealistic expectations, to media stigmatization, from cults around the world and the internet that promote different sh*t, from feminists, from idiot male incels and so on, the list has no ending point, we are changing everything, technology and knowledge has and changes us, people change, generations change, every f*****g thing changes and it's kind of normal, even if it's not a good change and even if not all agree with it or refuse to accept it. It's like a modelling transition period with a lot of pattern from different cultures, cults, fanatics, etc

People don't follow moral rules anymore, people are getting more and more superficial and dumb day by day, they value nothing, not even the present moments they have, their families, everybody watches others lives on social media and craves for the same things, we lost our identities as people and maybe we will find them with time, but i doubt it. We are a superficial and self destructive species and until we won't evolve above these superficial shits we won't change sh*t, not in the world, and not in us either.

 

[karatekid]

Lol there's so much wrong here, I put my replies in bold.

This is definitely NOT contradiction, you need to pay attention to subtle differences. I said that in my opinion it's more important to man, since a man would want to "use" his looks, a hot guy will have great life hanging out with girls, f*ck them, dating, anything. A girl, even average one, gets so much attention, that she doesnt even need, I mean, maybe some girls would like that, but a girl doesnt need hundreds of guys to be interested in her, she wants only one guy, and to have a relationship with him. So that's why I said that man can benefit more from his looks, and it's just my opinion, really nothing to argue about. BUT however it doesnt contradict at all the fact that women put less emphasis on looks than men. I hope you understand it now.

About the studies again - I already said what I think, I wouldnt repeat all of it.

"Also I wouldn't be surprised if a big part of women would still fck the model if they knew they could get away with it, don't think women are better morally than men."

You realize that every girl that has a boyfriend can literally go to any random hot model, f*** him, and go back to her boyfriend, anytime? Im sure no one will know. But they dont do that, right?? And I dont even say that they better morally than men, it just that they need EMOTIONAL CONNECTION. which is exactly my point. the connection takes big part of her attraction, unlike men which for them it's mostly looks. Just think what will happen if a guy could just walk and f*ck any hot girl - basically almost all guys would cheat.

About the whole celibecy thing - I dont know, I just said the things as I see it. The facts are that women raised their standards, and rather be alone than with someone (because lets face it if celibacy getting high it's because women decide it and not men) - but whether this situation is truely good for them, or they are just lying to themselves and sabotage their chances for happy life - I dont really know.
The fact is that the world does go toward solitude in the society. I always say that the huge advance in the last decades bring more harm than good, but this is for another discussion.

About my personal reasons - Ye of course women have SOME part of it. but I assure you it's NOT the reason. I cut off my male friends because I cant be seen with my receding hairline. I had women hitting on me but I just didnt reciprocate because this insecurity. I get depress when I look myself at the mirror. You dont know what it's like so dont talk about it. This is my self image. I cant stand myself as balding, women are just secondary thing. Moreover, if you would give me the choice, I would happily pass sex for the rest of my life for a lifetime of nw1, no doubt. This is 100%, believe me I never lie to myself, I always say the things as they are.

 

[TomRiddle]

This is definitely NOT contradiction, you need to pay attention to subtle differences. I said that in my opinion it's more important to man, since a man would want to "use" his looks, a hot guy will have great life hanging out with girls, f*ck them, dating, anything. A girl, even average one, gets so much attention, that she doesnt even need, I mean, maybe some girls would like that, but a girl doesnt need hundreds of guys to be interested in her, she wants only one guy, and to have a relationship with him. So that's why I said that man can benefit more from his looks, and it's just my opinion, really nothing to argue about. BUT however it doesnt contradict at all the fact that women put less emphasis on looks than men. I hope you understand it now.

About the studies again - I already said what I think, I wouldnt repeat all of it.

"Also I wouldn't be surprised if a big part of women would still fck the model if they knew they could get away with it, don't think women are better morally than men."

You realize that every girl that has a boyfriend can literally go to any random hot model, f*** him, and go back to her boyfriend, anytime? Im sure no one will know. But they dont do that, right?? And I dont even say that they better morally than men, it just that they need EMOTIONAL CONNECTION. which is exactly my point. the connection takes big part of her attraction, unlike men which for them it's mostly looks. Just think what will happen if a guy could just walk and f*ck any hot girl - basically almost all guys would cheat.

About the whole celibecy thing - I dont know, I just said the things as I see it. The facts are that women raised their standards, and rather be alone than with someone (because lets face it if celibacy getting high it's because women decide it and not men) - but whether this situation is truely good for them, or they are just lying to themselves and sabotage their chances for happy life - I dont really know.
The fact is that the world does go toward solitude in the society. I always say that the huge advance in the last decades bring more harm than good, but this is for another discussion.

About my personal reasons - Ye of course women have SOME part of it. but I assure you it's NOT the reason. I cut off my male friends because I cant be seen with my receding hairline. I had women hitting on me but I just didnt reciprocate because this insecurity. I get depress when I look myself at the mirror. You dont know what it's like so dont talk about it. This is my self image. I cant stand myself as balding, women are just secondary thing. Moreover, if you would give me the choice, I would happily pass sex for the rest of my life for a lifetime of nw1, no doubt. This is 100%, believe me I never lie to myself, I always say the things as they are.

You seem like a smart guy but i really think you need therapy. There is clearly more than hair from your post history and making an obsession over it will never get you in any good place anyways. But maybe you are young and with time you will understand it, or maybe not, don't get me wrong, i don't judge you, it's your life and by any means do whatever you want with it, but keep in mind that some things won't come again and you will lose them forever, like time for example, youth, present experiences and so on...

 

[Derelict]

Replies in bold. And try to read the studies for once.

What do you blame most for the rise in some of the points you raise? is it the age of social media? breakdown in the institute of marriage or something else?

 

[Southcity94]

I really think a key factor for that is that more and more people tend to be less socially active.
It's not only based on the way you look.
For example, I know a lot of guys who just started gaming as soon as they reached teenage age.
They came home from school and went straight to their computer, on the weekends the same, instead of meeting their peers and just hanging out.
So do they still when coming from work...
They never learnt to flirt or have a healthy social live.
I mean you don't have to, nowadays.
Who needs to have a burger and a movie in the cinema on a Friday night, when you just can order a pizza and watch Netflix all weekend long.
It's up to you, if you stay in your comfort zone or try to make some new experience.
I always found it way more nice to meet a girl when going out than trough dating apps, although you can have a nice date with that, too.
For example, where I live there's some event for free every spring, where they make a skateboarding competition and concerts in the evening on a very nice location.
It's just about having a good time, meeting people and stuff, but there are only the same 100 people every year and I bet there would have been lots more 30 years ago.
People just didn't have the opportunity to get this much entertainment when staying home alone.
This is a big game changer I think.
Nowadays people don't want to risk getting rejected or leaving their comfort zone, so they never even tried and with age, its a lot more difficult to get back in the game.

 

[Derelict]

Oh my, this deserves its own thread but I'll try to give a simplified version on why I believe we are in such a dire state in the west.

The root cause of this is liberalism being pushed too far. (talking about socio/cultural liberalism) the dissapearance of religion and the deconstruction of the tradition patriarchal system.

Social media, internet, smart phones,... are all catalysts but not the cause of the problems in the west. (btw capitalism is also a catalyst but lol that deserves its own thread too)

Let's start with liberalism and its far left form that dominates the west now, egalitarianism. This doctrine believes we are all the same and have the same value. On a pure moral base I can agree to a point that one life is worth as much as another life but this doctrine goes even further and believes in a pure almost absolute form of equality even when science shows a complete different picture.

You can see it in many things. A man can now be a woman, it you don't believe or conform you will be called a transphobe. (these word tactics deserve its own thread too, the -ist and -phobe words are nothing more than a strategy and tactic to manipulate you) Acceptance of all kinds of perversions just look at gay prides an how deprived those "parades" are, don't dare to question that though or you will be called a homophobe. Another interesting thing is race. Studies showed there are cognitive differences in races but don't you dare mention that or they will come after you, just look at what they did with James Watson, probably one of the smartest men to ever live on this planet. They took away his nobel prize, the father of DNA because he dared to say IQ differences exist between races. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t-honors-stripped-reprehensible-race-comments Like I said, the narrative is clear, science doesn't matter to them, you need to conform to their world view or else... I could go on.

Now let's talk about the effects of a lack of religion on society. When I was younger I thought, look at those idiots who still believe in a religion and look how many wars it causes, time for humanity to move on! I was completely wrong and did not see the extremely important value a religion brings to a culture and society.

Nietzsche already saw this coming in the 19th century, he knew there had to be a new form of morality/norms when religion would ultimately disappear in the west. He argued people should become like the "übermensch" a person that does the right things without religion or anyone telling him what to do. But sadly, humans are far from perfect and most of us will never be an "übermensch" hence we need a social, moral system like religion. The metaphyscial and notion you believe in god or not doesn't even matter, the true value of religion lies in the moral and philosophical base it gives a society. The average man and woman needs this, also know that without religion, people can fall prey to nihilism very easily. Depression is sky high in the west even though we never had it this good materially. And when I talk about religion I want to state that not all religions are equal and they bring problems too but a moderate religion that brings strong values is essential if a society wants to survive long term.

Now, the deconstruction of the "patriarchy", a good translation is this: A deconstruction of "civilization". I do not believe we can have a healthy society without a patriarchal structure. Patriarchy = civilization. This is another very big one and I don't think I can make a quick summary about this here but I'll try. A woman and man are not the same and we have different roles to play in this life, this is nature that made it so. In the far left, egalitarian west this is blasphemy. Not only do they believe that a woman can do anything just as good as a man, they also think they can defy nature and think hormone pills will change the gender of a person. Again you see they do not care about science at all, their doctrine is holy. Of course a man and women are different in many ways, especially biological. Women are weaker, have different cognitive wiring and have a different mating strategy that influences a lot, for example they will choose more for social, humanistic fields than stem fields even though they have all the freedom and are even encouraged to go for stem fields in the west. (I can go on about this with studies, etc., again this also deserves its own thread, there's just too much to unpack to really comprehend why these things are the way they are) Feminism is the biggest destroyer of the family and the patriarchal system. Now has feminism really freed women, did it really made them happier in the end? I would argue it has been the biggest catastrophe for women and western society of the last 100 years. Not only has it undermined the true unit of a society and culture, the family. It had devestating impacts on the economical structure too. Did you know the biggest companies in the past were promoting feminism? They had a good incentive to do so and so had the state for extra taxes (but the state did not calculate the long term effects) It doubled the workforce, more workers means lower wages. And like I said, depressions are sky high for western women who are drugging themselves with SSRI's to cope. Feminism is also the cause of a lot of stress, in the past the woman stayed home to take care of the household and the children, this isn't the case anymore. Now you can also argue is it also good enough that the man can be a houseman and the women goes to work? Studies showed that women (in general) do not respect a man as much when he was not the breadwinner. As a result of all this, less and less children are born and society will die a slow death. Anyway I can go on and on about this. Here are some more controversial but interesting studies:

• 7.3 Women orgasm more when having sex with rich men
• 7.4 Men with much lower incomes than their wives are more than twice as likely to not have sex
• 7.5 Photoshopping a man into a luxury apartment made women rate him as 30% more attractive
• 7.6 Women are 1,000x more sensitive than men to economic status cues when rating attractiveness
• 7.7 By the end of her life, the average woman will have a negative $122,000 net fiscal impact

View attachment 138719
View attachment 138720

I also believe most (far) leftists and liberals want the best but their ideology doesn't work in reality, it's utopian wishful thinking based on feelings and goes against science and nature. Ultimately it will cause misery and destruction not only on an individual level but also on a collective one.

This saying summarizes the lefitist doctrine the best: The way to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyway, what was common sense in the past has become very controversial in the west today.

Informative well laid out post, thanks for the in depth reply, not sure if i agree with everything you said but it is very interesting, do you see any sort of solution for western countries if you believe the destruction of the classical structure of society has been damaged because of liberalism?

 

[swingline747]

We will go back to a traditional society out of our own free will or we will be forced by other traditional societies, cultures (for the west that will probably be islam). There is no other way since liberalism ends the same way every time, destruction of society and culture, this creates a vacuum that will and can only be filled by traditional society.

Disruptive technology is the only black swan event that could halten or speed up this transition, AI and automation could have a strong impact on societal evolution.

Even though right wing parties are getting more popular in the west, I doubt that will be enough. The solution is probably playing the waiting game, it could be that we've passed a point of no return for any politics to really make a difference.

This all very complex. Economics, socio-culturaly, human nature, power plays by elites who benefit,...are all at play here. But I do believe that it's inevitable we will go back to traditional structures one way or another and sooner or later.

Edit: my big post I made here, is only scratching the surface though.

mouse utopia, it will end after a huge culling. Maybe caronavirus is the cure we've been waiting for.

 

[Derelict]

We will go back to a traditional society out of our own free will or we will be forced by other traditional societies, cultures (for the west that will probably be islam). There is no other way since liberalism ends the same way every time, destruction of society and culture, this creates a vacuum that will and can only be filled by traditional society.

Disruptive technology is the only black swan event that could halten or speed up this transition, AI and automation could have a strong impact on societal evolution.

Even though right wing parties are getting more popular in the west, I doubt that will be enough. The solution is probably playing the waiting game, it could be that we've passed a point of no return for any politics to really make a difference.

This all very complex. Economics, socio-culturaly, human nature, power plays by elites who benefit,...are all at play here. But I do believe that it's inevitable we will go back to traditional structures one way or another and sooner or later.

Edit: my big post I made here, is only scratching the surface though.

There has actually been a large increase in native population of western women converting to islam if you believe some sources, do you think this is because deep down western women are actually unhappy with what feminism has brought them and favor a more orderly, strict lifestyle that religion brings rather than the hedonistic way a lot of people live their lives these days?

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

I really think a key factor for that is that more and more people tend to be less socially active.
It's not only based on the way you look.
For example, I know a lot of guys who just started gaming as soon as they reached teenage age.
They came home from school and went straight to their computer, on the weekends the same, instead of meeting their peers and just hanging out.
So do they still when coming from work...
They never learnt to flirt or have a healthy social live.
I mean you don't have to, nowadays.
Who needs to have a burger and a movie in the cinema on a Friday night, when you just can order a pizza and watch Netflix all weekend long.
It's up to you, if you stay in your comfort zone or try to make some new experience.
I always found it way more nice to meet a girl when going out than trough dating apps, although you can have a nice date with that, too.
For example, where I live there's some event for free every spring, where they make a skateboarding competition and concerts in the evening on a very nice location.
It's just about having a good time, meeting people and stuff, but there are only the same 100 people every year and I bet there would have been lots more 30 years ago.
People just didn't have the opportunity to get this much entertainment when staying home alone.
This is a big game changer I think.
Nowadays people don't want to risk getting rejected or leaving their comfort zone, so they never even tried and with age, its a lot more difficult to get back in the game.

Correlation =/= causation. Gaming is a refuge for these shut-ins because they have a feeling that they are chanceless in todays society in general and in competition for women in particular. That's their words not mine, people don't just forget how to have a fullfilling live because of video games.

 

[TomRiddle]

When you stop trying and give up, that's when your excuses don't matter anymore...