Balding Scot's Story - (Follow my story if ya like.)

[Balding Scot]

Hey all. You might have seen me posting about my mental side effects from 1mg of Propecia, my questions about getting a hair transplant, etc.

Well, after speaking with Joe over at Hasson and Wong, it seems they don't really want to operate on me unless i can stabilize the loss first. I definitely appreciate their honesty in this regard.

So, I've grown a pair of balls and I'm going to try getting on Propecia again, only this time, 0.25mg a day (a quarter pill). I take my first dose tomorrow.

I've been on Nizoral 2% for 2 months now. So far it's caused a bit of shedding.

In addition to that, I'm starting on a vigorous health regimen. Cardio every day. Healthy eating, lots of veggies/fruits and Wild fish and poultry.

In addition to health living, I've added an arsenal of supplements after doing some intense research about hair-related vitamins and minerals. Here's what I'm taking, for the record:

[*]MSM: 3mg
[*]Vitamin A:10,000 IU
[*]Vitamin C: 1500mg
[*]Vitamin D3: 210 IU
[*]Biotin: 1800mg
[*]Vitamin B Complex: 130mg of each B Vitamin
[*]Folic Acid: 1.4mg
[*]Inositol: 800mg
[*]Choline: 620mg
[*]PABA: 625mg
[*]Pantothenic Acid: 500mg
[*]Zinc: 35mg
[*]Krill Oil: 1500mg (equal to 450mg of Omega-3's)
[*]Flaxseed Oil: 600mg
[*]Safflower Oil: 600mg
[*]Iodine: 1mg
[*]Calcium: 200mg
[*]Magnesium: 200mg
[*]L-Cysteine: 200mg
[*]L-Methionine: 100mg

So that's it. Pray for me that the quarter-dose of propecia has no sides. I have a lot of faith that combining it with ultra healthy living, Nizoral, and the supplements above, something magical could happen.

I'd like to document my progress here. I've posted a "before" photo below to show you where I was about a month ago. Let's see where I get in the months ahead!

Please feel free to chime in with advice, suggestions, or musings. Thanks!

 

[BodyDysmorphic]

Re: Scot's Fancy New Regimin. Follow my story if ya like.

hairloss and male pattern baldness is genetic
all those supplements will make you healthier
but they wont improve your hair

male pattern baldness is caused by the hair follicles sensitivity to DHT
are any of those supplements going to change that?

just curious

 

[Balding Scot]

Re: Scot's Fancy New Regimin. Follow my story if ya like.

Are you a scientist?

You're right about one thing -- they'll make me healthier. And if any of my loss is not related to genetics (which I think is more than likely), I think it will create an optimal environment for hair health, at the very least.

The propecia and Nizoral will take care of the rest.

That's the hope.

 

[Route66]

You're, obviously, a very determined person, and I can relate to that. However, if you're interested in my opinion, I have to point out that:

- BD is right. Poor health may be related to hair loss, and hair quality, in some circumstances, but it ISN'T related to male pattern baldness. That's why it's called MALE PATTERN balding, i.e. because it only happens to men, and in a specific pattern, and there's a specific trigger for it. Health related hair loss can happen to anyone, and the hair doesn't fall out in any pattern. Anyone on this forum who knows what they're talking about will confirm this.

- I've suffered from panic attacks. Not because of Propecia (which I've never taken), but I had a nervous breakdown about 10 years ago. There's NO WAY I would take anything that risked inducing another panic attack. And once you start having panic attacks, it's very difficult to stop them. Your nervous system becomes highly alerted to 'danger' (though there's no actual danger there), and it takes a looooooooooong time to desensitize yourself. I know hair loss is devastating, but being in a constant state of anxiety is a billion times worse. It's ironic that you're going to take all these things to improve your physical health, yet you're prepared to risk screwing up your mental health, which is even more important to a person's well-being IMO.

- Even if Propecia doesn't give you anxiety this time, and even if it does slow down the hair loss, realistically, with the amount of hair you've lost, it will take several hair transplant procedures to get a decent result. You're going to have to spend much of the next 5 years, or more, travelling to Canada (if it's H & W), then waiting for it all to grow out, and the total cost of all this treatment will be AT LEAST £20k, I would imagine (though that may not be a problem for you, of course). And you'll have to take Propecia for life.

If you were a bit younger, or your hair loss was a bit less severe, or there wasn't the panic attack risk, I'd say go for it, but, honestly, I have to wonder if you wouldn't be better off with a piece, or just saying 'f*** it'.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but I thoght you'd prefer the truth to BS. I really wish you the best if you do decide to go through with all this, though.

 

[barcafan]

Re: Scot's Fancy New Regimin. Follow my story if ya like.

Are you a scientist?

You're right about one thing -- they'll make me healthier. And if any of my loss is not related to genetics (which I think is more than likely), I think it will create an optimal environment for hair health, at the very least.

The propecia and Nizoral will take care of the rest.

That's the hope.

wishfull thinking, man.

The hope will fade with time

 

[pirate101]

Go to the Farjo clinic or the Belgravia centre in London, they'll be able to help you out. consultation is free, well worth it if hair loss is bothering you

 

[Balding Scot]

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that a hair loss forum would be filled with cynics. I've been there too. But I'm not givin' up, god damn it.

Thanks to the poster regarding panic attacks. Yes, I agree, it's the worst thing in the world. But I'm quite certain that it was due to an overload of the drug, and a lower dose is going to clean that right up.

As for health and hair loss -- there certainly is a lot of certainty around here. I think it's funny that in a field where even the scientists who are trying (and failing) to develop a cure will admit that they don't understand entirely how hair loss works, that people on an internet forum can be so certain about the mechanics of it.

Sure, we know stuff. But I refuse to believe that a combination of stress and poor health couldn't be responsible for accelerating male pattern baldness. Call it intuition, or call it experience. I think it's more experience, considering the last few years I have been living incredibly unhealthily, and worse, been stressed out of my mind.

Kill both, and combine it with a low dose of a proven hair loss fighter, and I should be at least able to *stop* the loss. I'm not expecting any regrowth.

At that point, H&W thinks that they can give me back a good chunk of density, which is all I'm after. In *one* session. 4000 grafts or so.

I live in Canada, Vancouver is 10 hours away. It's not that big of an inconvenience, except for maybe the time it'll take to grow in.

We're all obsessed with our hair loss, otherwise we wouldn't be posting to a place like this. I know there's a lot of dissent when it comes to the idea of the link between health and male pattern baldness -- and I don't doubt that male pattern baldness is due to genetics. But I'm quite certain that male pattern baldness (and a number of other genetic/situational conditions) can ACCELERATE in severity due to stress and poor health.

I guess I'm on a mission to prove that now ;-) I'll be posting regular pictures.

 

[Nashville Hairline]

[*]Inositol: 800mg
[*]Choline: 620mg
[*]PABA: 625mg
[*]Pantothenic Acid: 500mg

[*]L-Cysteine: 200mg
[*]L-Methionine: 100mg

Just curious about these particular ingredients...where did you hear about them? I've read about the others in one form or other as being beneficial to scalp and hair health but not these.

 

[Petchsky]

Yeah, same as. Since you're happy to pop the supplements you may wish to look in to DIM, i've seen reports of propecia users who have suffered side in the past taking DIM to help with any side effects, with success. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I think many people who suffer sides with finasteride do so because of an increase in Estrogen, and DIM helps deal with any excess estrogen or helps process it, etc...

 

[Route66]

I don't think I'm a cynic mate, I try to go with the facts. The fact that you've been living an unhealthy lifestyle and losing hair proves zip. Plenty of men with an extremely healthy lifestyle go bald, and plenty of men who abuse their bodies more than you've done don't. And your suggestion that the medical profession is still pretty clueless about the causes of male pattern baldness is crap, to be frank. Of course they don't know everything, but Hasson & Wong, for example, are confident enough about these causes to write this on their website:

http://www.hassonandwong.com/hair-loss/ ... r-loss.php

No mention of diet, as you can see.

Having said this, you can't do any harm by eating healthier, of course, and it'll improve your general physical condition anyway.

As far as Propecia goes, please do yourself a favour and stop IMMEDIATELY if there's any sign of your panic attacks returning. Otherwise things will spiral, and you'll end up in a very dark place.

I didn't know you live in Canada, or that you were only having one session. However, you need to be realistic about what this will give you. As long as you are, though, then I withdraw some of my reservation. I thought you lived in Scotland, and were banking on a full head of hair.

In fact, I'll be very interested to see how you get on, as I'm considering a hair transplant - with somebody - myself (my male pattern baldness hair loss isn't as bad as yours, though I do have the added complication of some Alopecia Areata!).

 

[Balding Scot]

Petchsky -- I'm not sure if DIM would help with the mental side effects though, probably just sexual side effects, which I didn't seem to have.

Route66 -- I agree that if Panic attacks start happening again, I will certainly be going off the stuff. Though there is a good chance that initially my mind might start playing tricks on me. I've learned a lot about my brain and my body through the course of this whole nightmare... I agree that panic attacks can spiral into a chronic disorder, with fear feeding on fear feeding on fear. The trick is, in this situation, *what if the panic attacks weren't at all related to the propecia?* I'm 28 right now. Lots of guys in their mid twenties go through a "crisis" of sorts and end up with panic and anxiety. Perhaps going off of Propecia was my way of getting rid of the attacks, but the mind is a powerful thing. Only going back on will tell me for sure.

My loss is quite progressed at this point, I agree. I'm not expecting to *grow back hair* with this regimin. Only trying to cease the loss and reverse course.

I don't think we'll end up agreeing on this, but I really dont' think that H&W, or any doctor in the field, can really be trusted when it comes to their opinion on the causes of baldness. Yes, H&W does great work, but let's face it -- they want you to believe that the only solutions to baldness are medical and surgical.

And for many people, that will be the case.

It's at least been proven that stress can accelerate male pattern baldness. So if stress can accelerate it, why wouldn't unhealthy living in general accelerate it also?

I appreciate your insights, and especially your concern regarding the panic. Seems like we both know what a hell that can be. And I agree, if it comes back, I'll go off of it. No amount of hair is worth that kind of evil experience.

Oh, and to the poster asking about Inositol and Choline -- those two supplements work together (choline helps the absorption of inositol), and inositol has been proven to support healthy hair in a number of cases.

Most of these supplements promote *healthy hair*, not necessarily regrowth, but they certainly can't hurt. And besides that, they also have been making me feel awfully good. Tons of energy, a lot more clear-headed, etc.

 

[Tyler_Durden]

Hey mate, if you are interested in the natural path of dealing with hairloss, take a look over at www.immortalhair.org. They have a forum there that will be a bit more accommodating and helpful on the topic.

I use the drugs but I definitely think natural supplements can have an impact, DHT isn't the sole cause of hair loss so you might as well try hit it with a few other things.
A guy posted on another forum that he had been taking finasteride, got his DHT tested and it was at 9, while the normal range was 22-25 or something similar, so his DHT was very, very low but he is still losing a significant amount of hair he said.

So if you can do other things, I say go for it. A lot of these natural supplements have journals posted and have shown they can affect hair loss, if these things can prevent cancer and heart attacks etc etc it is hardly absurd that they could effect hair loss. Some supplements balance hormones and what not, and at worst that are still great for general health.
You are using a lot of stuff though! Have a read at that site I posted, they have narrowed down some more effective supplements to use so you might be able to save some cashola.

Good luck

 

[Route66]

You're muddling general hair loss with male pattern baldness. No-one is denying that poor health, and poor diet, and stress, can adversely affect hair. But male pattern baldness is a specific onset of hair loss, with a specific trigger, that has NOTHING to do with health/diet/stress. Every recognised hair loss expert in the world states this. Is it possible they're all wrong? Theoretically, yes. It's possible that every expert is wrong about anything, in theory. But to claim that the world's most renowned experts in this field are all wrong, a claim that challenges the reputation of all the world's top hair transplant surgeons, for example, you must produce proof beyond reasonable doubt.

The website you're referring to has not been created by a doctor, and offers no real proof. It's, basically, the equivalent of an alternative medicine quack claiming that you can cure cancer by natural means (and there are plenty of apparently intelligent people who claim things like that, believe it or not).

As I say, there's no harm in heating healthily, obviously (though it will cost a small fortune to take the multitude of pills suggested on that website), but I'm afraid it's just not good enough to throw these flim flam theories about, with casual disdain for those who prefer to believe the real experts, i.e. those with proper qualifications, who've competently treated people with hair loss.

 

[peapoddy]

:agree:

 

[Petchsky]

I've changed my line of thinking somewhat from old. I used to believe that diet played no part in hairloss, at all. I've revised this now. male pattern baldness is still genetic, and bad diet won't cause hairloss for people without the male pattern baldness gene, unless they have a chronic lack of some vitamin or mineral.

BUT

If you have male pattern baldness, it can exacerbate hairloss and make it worse than it otherwise would be by poor diet. There are certain foods which increase DHT throughout the body that will increase shedding and hair fall out. By avoiding certain DHT fuelled foods you can damped the inflammation that comes with male pattern baldness and restrict the damaging effects of DHT. You would still need some sort of hairloss regimen, but it does help.

The guy from immortalhair knows what he's talking about.

 

[Route66]

So an unqualified guy who's bashed his own website together, and can provide no real evidence, 'knows what he's talking about', and every top hair transplant surgeon is wrong. And if male pattern baldness sufferers 'still need some sort of hairloss regimen' anyway then, conveniently, all these vitamins that unqualified guy recommends can be given the credit when its the regimen that's actually produced an improvement. The ONLY way his theories can be legitimized is by successfully subjecting them to rigorous tests under laboratory conditions, i.e. the same rigorous tests that conventional medicines have passed. Unless such tests are conducted, and produce positive results (which, of course, won't happen), then naive young male pattern baldness sufferers should be cautioned against having false hopes, and spending a not insignificant amount of money on this stuff. I thought HairLossTalk.com moderators were here to offer the best advice to the balding young man, not moider him with snake oils. As things stand there's as much real evidence for the existence of the Yeti as there is for the efficacy of this crap.

 

[Petchsky]

Route 66,

This will be my last post on this matter as I can't be bothered with arguing with you, as you don't know anything about immortalhair.com other than taking a cursory glance at it. Many of the posters on his site don't use propecia, or any conventional drug, that's the point of it.

I never said anything about H/T docs???, though I will tell you this, they are not experts on hairloss, they are experts on hair transplant surgery! They know of propecia and it's effects because Mr Rep from Merck has been and told them all about it. Some know more than others, but they specialise in hair transplantation, not hairloss, two different areas.

'Mr unqualified guy' is obviously not going to do 'rigorous tests under lab conditions' because he's not a company, nor does he have a product, he's not selling anything! He's recommending supplements that have worked for him and have scientific studies supporting its use against hairloss.

The HairLossTalk.com mod comment was completely uncalled for and a low blow with no relevance to this particular thread. Not everybody wants/or is able to take propecia and rogaine and immortalhair.com is a good site for people looking for alternative methods.

Nuff said

 

[Balding Scot]

I must say I agree with Petchsky, Route 66, while I admire your passion on the subject, I don't quite understand how you can be so certain about this stuff.

If hair loss is still uncured, it means we don't know everything about it, plain and simple. Which makes any matter-of-fact assertion regarding the efficacy of various approaches kind of silly.

But this natural vs. chemical argument is kind of clogging up my thread. I'm trying both. Quarter pill of propecia, and a whole lot of supplements.

 

[Route66]

I'm not certain of anything - that's the point. No-one can be. However, conventional hair loss treatment HAS been subjected to tests that this individual's methods haven't. In the absence of such tests he doesn't have a right to claim that these methods work. It's he and his 'followers' who are adopting a position of certainty, not me. If he really thinks he's found a cure for hair loss then this must be subjected to proper tests. And if he believes he's fit to prescribe hair restoration treatment he should obtain a legitimate qualification to do so. It's truly incredible that people are swallowing this garbage without any real evidence, basically because it 'sounds' good. If someone created a website with 50 pages on how to make paralyzed people walk again, with all sorts of fancy diagrams, I suspect some people on this thread would believe that too!

An independent individual can say anything he likes on this forum, as far as I'm concerned; hell claim that the earth is flat. I couldn't give a toss. However, when you're representing HairLossTalk.com, e.g. as a moderator, that's a different ball game. HairLossTalk.com is partly a resource portal, and there's a lot of naive, and confused, young guys on here. They need to be told what works, and what doesn't, i.e. the recognized, proven, treatment. It's completely irresponsible for a moderator to point them in the direction of a quack like this. Not only is it falsely raising their hopes, it will cost them a small fortune to buy all the lotions and potions this person is recommending, and there's NO evidence that any of it will make a difference. Not only that, he admits that some of these carry certain risks, e.g. one particular tablet lowers blood sugar. So is it safe for a diabetic on insulin to take then? There's probably other risks involved with taking 20 different tablets as well, but he doesn't know what they are, as he's not a doctor, of course.

'The guy from immortalhair knows what he's talking about.'

For someone representing HairLossTalk.com to casually state this as a matter of fact, as though the individual in question was a qualified health practicioner, and his methods were tried and tested, is incredible, really.

So HairLossTalk.com's recommended treatment for male pattern baldness is now either:

- the big 3, prescribed by a legitimate doctor.

- a hair transplant carried out by a top class surgeon.

- or a bunch of pills that contain god-knows-what 'recommended' by some guy with a website, who's not qualified in anything, but it's okay because, even though there's no evidence to support his theories, you can rest assured that he 'knows what he's talking about'!

 

[Petchsky]

It's he and his 'followers' who are adopting a position of certainty, not me. If he really thinks he's found a cure for hair loss then this must be subjected to proper tests.

Nobody is in a position of certainty, and nobody has said they are certain of anything, nobody believes they have found a cure, this is something you've just pulled out of thin air.

And if he believes he's fit to prescribe hair restoration treatment he should obtain a legitimate qualification to do so. It's truly incredible that people are swallowing this garbage without any real evidence, basically because it 'sounds' good. If someone created a website with 50 pages on how to make paralyzed people walk again, with all sorts of fancy diagrams, I suspect some people on this thread would believe that too!

He's not prescribing anything...I really don't get why you're so hostile to a guy who has set up his own site with a forum and detailed his natural supplement regimen. He's not selling anything, and there are, believe it or not, people who wish to find a way to control there hairloss without drugs. Shocking.

An independent individual can say anything he likes on this forum, as far as I'm concerned; hell claim that the earth is flat. I couldn't give a toss. However, when you're representing HairLossTalk.com, e.g. as a moderator, that's a different ball game. HairLossTalk.com is partly a resource portal, and there's a lot of naive, and confused, young guys on here. They need to be told what works, and what doesn't, i.e. the recognized, proven, treatment. It's completely irresponsible for a moderator to point them in the direction of a quack like this. Not only is it falsely raising their hopes, it will cost them a small fortune to buy all the lotions and potions this person is recommending, and there's NO evidence that any of it will make a difference. Not only that, he admits that some of these carry certain risks, e.g. one particular tablet lowers blood sugar. So is it safe for a diabetic on insulin to take then? There's probably other risks involved with taking 20 different tablets as well, but he doesn't know what they are, as he's not a doctor, of course.

Now this is where your pissing me off, you've been on this site a matter of months and you're telling me what HairLossTalk.com is and what my job is as a moderator, and then misrepresenting my initial post to baldingscot to support your crazy rant that this no gooder who has started his own forum and has the cheek to actually give people his opinions when asked. He's not saying he is a doctor, i'm not a doctor, Bryan is not a doctor, should he be kept quite because he doesn't have the necessary qualifications to comment on propecia? Your logic is faulty and tiresome.

I'm not advising the 'young and nieve' people on this site to go to immortalhair website, i'm letting baldingscot know of it's existence since he is looking for alternative methods to help with his hairloss before you busted in with a giant chip on your shoulder. I have been on this site helping people for years, and I always advise newbies of the big 3, what I don't appreciate is someone who has been here 5 mins, patronising me, and telling me what I should and shouldn't say as a moderator on HairLossTalk.com.

Will you stop hijacking baldingscot's thread? If you reply with a similar rant again I will simply delete your post, so save yourself the effort of coming up with yet more self righteous crap where you ignore my post and make out i'm advising every newbie here to go to another site!