beards , baldness ,and sweat secretion study

[thin=depressed]

Beards, baldness, and sweat secretion.

Cabanac M, Brinnel H.

Universite Laval, Faculte de Medicine, Department de Physiologie, Quebec, Canada.

The hypothesis according to which male common baldness has developed in the human species as a compensation for the growth of a beard in order to achieve heat loss has been tested. In 100 clean-shaven men direct measurement of the area of glabrous skin on the forehead and calvaria was found to be proportional to that of the hairy skin on the lips, cheeks, chin and neck. During light hyperthermia the evaporation rate on the bald scalp was 2 to 3 times higher than on the hairy scalp. Conversely the evaporation rate was practically equal on the foreheads and chins of women and unbearded young men, while in adult clean-shaven bearded men it was 40% less on the chin than the forehead. These results support the hypothesis that male baldness is a thermoregulatory compensation for the growth of a beard in adults.

 

[S Foote.]

I have a `hard' copy of this sweating study, Prof Cabanac sent it to me after my first paper on the Hydraulic theory was published in "Medical Hypotheses".

The Hydraulic theory predicts the results of this study. The sweat glands unlike the local follicles, do not show any change in size or physiology. The change is purely in the amount of sweat they secrete, relating to the local DHT induced hair growth/loss.

This `must' be related to the tissue fluid pressure that feeds the sweat glands.

I would like to see the same kind of study done on the local protein levels in the tissue. Higher protein levels in balding tissue would further support increased fluid pressure in this tissue.

S Foote.

 

[Greg1]

Hmmm...this is all great and good but PLEASE translate this post as we don't ALL understand all that's involved in what's being said here! Hey, I could post something from the radio field but I'm not for shooting way over other people's heads TRANSLATE this please! This means....

 

[S Foote.]

Hmmm...this is all great and good but PLEASE translate this post as we don't ALL understand all that's involved in what's being said here! Hey, I could post something from the radio field but I'm not for shooting way over other people's heads TRANSLATE this please! This means....

Well Greg, the idea is very simple really. Here is the background.
http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm


It basicaly goes like this.


Hair follicles are `hollow' pockets in the dermal tissue. Every time a new hair cycle starts, the follicle starts to expand in the dermal tissue. This means that the dermal tissue has to `give' a little when the follicle is enlarging.

What we want is large follicles that produce the maximum hair growth like normal scalp hair. What we `get' in male pattern baldness, is reduced enlargement of the follicles, giving us small follicles and very little hair (vellous growth).

There is a natural control on this kind of `organ' growth called contact inhibition. As the multiplying cells increase the size of the organ, (in this case the growing follicle), the resistence of other tissue (in this case the dermal tissue) increases. The cells are `fighting' for space if you like.

When a `certain' resistence is meet, this `contact' force signals the multiplying cells to stop multiplying. This recognised growth `cut off' feature in all `normal' cells, stops the various tissues from interfering with each other. Cancer cells lose the normal contact inhibition control, and this is why they can invade and disrupt other tissues.

When hair follicles are expanding within the dermal tissue, the fluid pressure in the dermal tissue will tend to `push' the dermal cells in towards this growing `hollow' space. The higher the fluid pressure, the greater the force behind the dermal cells, the more the resistence to follicle enlargement.

So the greater this resistence to follicle enlargement, the earlier normal contact inhibition `kicks' in, the smaller the follicle.

Here's a very simple analogy.

Consider a party baloon. The skin of the baloon is the dermal tissue. The air pressure inside the baloon is the dermal fluid pressure. Your finger is the hair follicle trying to create a `hollow' space in the baloon. The greater the `pressure' in the baloon, the harder it is to force your finger into it!

This is exactly the same principle the enlarging follicle experiences. So the lower the fluid pressure, the easier it is for the follicle to expand, the larger the follicle, the more hair you get! The more the fluid pressure, the harder it is for the follicle to expand, the smaller the follicle (via contact inhibition), the less hair you get.

I argue in my paper refered to above, that hair follicles evolved to adjust their size in accordance with the local fluid pressure, to adjust hair growth in line with the major temperature control in mammals of variable dermal fluid levels.

So, according to this mechanism `ANYTHING' that changes the fluid levels and pressures around the follicles, will change the size of the follicles and hair growth. I suggest that the major influence of DHT on hair growth in-vivo, is to change the fluid pressures in tissues.

If you do the research, you will find that the `common' link in many forms of hair loss, is an increase in the local tissue fluid levels for whatever reason. Likewise, increases in hair growth are associated with a reduction in the local fluid pressures for whatever reason.

These studies posted on noted changes in the circulation, and scalp fluid characteristics in male pattern baldness, support my argument of higher fluid pressures in the bald scalp being the cause of the follicle miniaturization.

S Foote.

 

[thin=depressed]

S Foot

Isn't dieretics used for fluid retension?

 

[thin=depressed]

I just learned that spironolactone(spelling?) is used for water retension. Very interesting connection.

 

[gonna_win]

So shave everyday and you wont go bald?

 

[Guest]

I wonder if a Sauna would reduce fluid pressure....

 

[michael barry]

What do you suggest we can do with this info?

According to your theory, and assuming its correct, what could we as folks dealing with miniaturizing hair do to lessen fluid pressure?

Could we take cold showers, use anti-inflammatories like asprin on our scalps? Im open to new knowledge on this subject and glad that smart people like yourself are scientifically looking at baldness to see if we can do something about it. Thanks for any ideas you might have

 

[thin=depressed]

Re: What do you suggest we can do with this info?

According to your theory, and assuming its correct, what could we as folks dealing with miniaturizing hair do to lessen fluid pressure?

Could we take cold showers, use anti-inflammatories like asprin on our scalps? Im open to new knowledge on this subject and glad that smart people like yourself are scientifically looking at baldness to see if we can do something about it. Thanks for any ideas you might have

propecia is an anti-androgen to a degree. Attack the problem with anti-androgens. spironolactone is one as well and for the crazy guys there's flutamide which is the strongest out there but you'll run a chance of gyno.

 

[thin=depressed]

Re: What do you suggest we can do with this info?

According to your theory, and assuming its correct, what could we as folks dealing with miniaturizing hair do to lessen fluid pressure?

Could we take cold showers, use anti-inflammatories like asprin on our scalps? Im open to new knowledge on this subject and glad that smart people like yourself are scientifically looking at baldness to see if we can do something about it. Thanks for any ideas you might have

I've added alpha lipoic acid in my minoxidil to lessen inflammation and it works great.

 

[S Foote.]

Re: What do you suggest we can do with this info?

According to your theory, and assuming its correct, what could we as folks dealing with miniaturizing hair do to lessen fluid pressure?

Could we take cold showers, use anti-inflammatories like asprin on our scalps? Im open to new knowledge on this subject and glad that smart people like yourself are scientifically looking at baldness to see if we can do something about it. Thanks for any ideas you might have

I think the general trend towards `anti-inflammatory' treatments is a good thing, and you should maybe take a look at others experiences on these forums.

Yes i do think cold water rinses would help, as would gentle massage and Tom's exersises http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/ These things are also free!

S Foote.

 

[michael barry]

Thanks for the reply S. Foote. Ive used the scalp excercies for 9 months and do see a wee bit of vellus hair coming in the back of my temples.

My regimine currently includes propecia, minoxocil 2%, Nizoral once a week, Scalp Excercises, Vitamins, glass of Soy milk once a day, and one small serving of broccoli a day. Always looking for new info on hair loss as I understand discoveries are being made all the time. Will try a little cold water at the end of showers and gentle massage.......again, thanks

 

[S Foote.]

Thanks for the reply S. Foote. Ive used the scalp excercies for 9 months and do see a wee bit of vellus hair coming in the back of my temples.

My regimine currently includes propecia, minoxocil 2%, Nizoral once a week, Scalp Excercises, Vitamins, glass of Soy milk once a day, and one small serving of broccoli a day. Always looking for new info on hair loss as I understand discoveries are being made all the time. Will try a little cold water at the end of showers and gentle massage.......again, thanks

Good luck.

Regards.

S Foote.

 

[chewbaca]

Dont u all realise there's something fishy witht he compensation theory?

Why do females suffer from hair loss as well? And they dont have a beard

 

[follijinxed]

This theory is plausible though I do have a problem with it. How do you explain why hair transplants work? Perhaps the inflammation can hinder weakening hair and slow it down to some extent. For this reason I think it is still a good idea to keep inflammation down as much as possible.

 

[S Foote.]

This theory is plausible though I do have a problem with it. How do you explain why hair transplants work? Perhaps the inflammation can hinder weakening hair and slow it down to some extent. For this reason I think it is still a good idea to keep inflammation down as much as possible.

My opinion is this.

DHT induces changes in the local tissue fluid pressures via an action on the local lymphatic drainage. This effects hair follicles when they try to enlarge in anagen to `adjust' hair growth.

There are good reasons in evolution why hair follicles `should' react in this way to tissue fluid pressures, and for why DHT `should' effect lymphatic drainage.

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm

The enlarging follicle is a `hollow pocket'. The fluid presure in the dermis will tend to push dermal cells into this developing `pocket', so you get a resistence to the follicle enlargement.

The higher the fluid pressure, the greater the resistence. The higher this resistence, the earlier normal contact inhibition of cell mutliplication stops follicle growth.

So if the tissue fluid pressure is high you get a smaller follicle and less hair growth. If the fluid pressure is low you get a large follicle and increased hair growth.

These different fluid pressures would also effect the local sweating as confirmed by Cabanac's study.

You also get (where there is higher fluid pressures and levels) an immune sensitivity and inflammation as seen in the balding scalp. This kind of immunology is recognised in increased tissue fluid levels like edema.

http://www.lymphoedema.org.au/ (Click on "what is lymphedema").

If nothing else, Cabanac's study clearly demonstrates this `fluid' relationship in DHT related hair growth/loss.

The only transplanted follicles that survive long term are those that have had a healing process around them. In my opinion, this forms a natural scaffold as i have argued before. This protects the space around these follicles from this `interference' from the surrounding tissue, and allows larger follicles in anagen.

In the larger grafts 4-5mm for example, there is no healing process around or `close' to the follicles in the centre of these grafts. Long term, the only follicles to survive are those on the edges of these larger grafts.

The transplanted follicles away fron the edges and in the centre, behave `EXACTLY' like male pattern baldness follicles, and `bald' over the same kind of period as the original hair!


S Foote.

 

[Guest]

what constitutes 'having a beard'.

I genrally have some light stubble on my face but I do not have a thick beard.

Does stubble count?

Does your facial hair have to be certain length before male pattern baldness kicks in?

All sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[S Foote.]

what constitutes 'having a beard'.

I genrally have some light stubble on my face but I do not have a thick beard.

Does stubble count?

Does your facial hair have to be certain length before male pattern baldness kicks in?

All sounds ridiculous to me.

I think you have to consider the other side to the `fluid' equation?

This study shows a positive correlation with tissue fluid levels and DHT related hair growth. I suggest that the higher fluid levels in the scalp that create male pattern baldness, are due to increasing levels of DHT creating reduced lymphatic drainage. This leads to an increased fluid retention in the male pattern baldness area.

But how quickly,( if ever), rising levels of DHT create fluid retention in the scalp, also depends on the blood pressure `FEEDING' the scalp.

If an individual has a higher pressure blood feed to the scalp, this will create fluid retention quicker because of the reduced drainage created by DHT.

If an individual has a lower blood pressure `feed', the drainage restriction created by DHT is not as important, and the fluid retention may not develope.

I think this is why some people can develop male pattern baldness with lower levels of DHT, perhaps like yourself. Whilst other people can have higher levels of DHT, body hair like monkey's and thick beards, but no male pattern baldness.

The difference in `fluid' terms is the blood pressure feeding the scalp!

It has been said, and i understand studies support this, that people with male pattern baldness are more likely to have heart problems in later life.

I would suggest that this is because people with male pattern baldness have a higher blood pressure!

If you just think `FLUID DYNAMICS', it all comes together! 8)

S Foote.

 

[Guest]

you and Bryan should get your ultra intelligent brains together and build a time machine so you can find the cure and bring it back.