Being A Self Aware Ugly Male Is Hell On Earth

cantara

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This sounds a bit blunt but ther's some truth here.
OP I'll tell you one thing women definitely don't like; They don't like guys who give off an air of desperation about wanting to get with hot chicks all the time and they don't like guys who objectify them for there looks alone. If you are giving off any of these signals (even subconsciously) then it's not helping you. Even a good looking guy could spoil his chances with some girls with this mind-set.
I see a lot of sense in your post and it works both ways. If I notice average-looking girls losing their mind over a handsome guy it makes them even less attractive. Yet when I come across good looking and also friendly, smiling, approachable women who are not that easily impressed by a handsome man, it raises my evaluation of them even further.
I interact with women of all attractiveness levels, be it for coffee, lunch or drinks, so I do not think I am all that shallow - except when it comes to romantic interests of mine, I cannot help it.
 

disfiguredyoungman

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uhm, it's no different then how men like YOURSELF view other women.

objectifying them on there beauty alone. So they are not allowed to do the same?


When you go out, the only concern you have is picking up a hot chick. Great, and there concern is being picked up by a equally cute guy. Is that a alot to ask for? :D


All you need to be an attractive guy is nice hair, teeth and pretty eyes :D
+ tall and fit, so easy isn't it

Well, anyways. You are misrepresenting his views. I get what you are saying but he explicitely stated, that he doesn't condem women for having standards. It's just, you know, even if you are a bald, pale and short guy, you still would not feel attracted to a absolutely disfigured woman, or a woman who is mortally obese or a crackhead. Even if you wanted to, that's just how we are wired.

And you realize, women have the same imperative and understand, but it does not make life easier.

E: I think what fucks most of us up, is that we feel that women and men as well treat us way worse even in everyday life situations. And at least at that point, I can preach a little here, I always tried to treat all people based on their merit and on how they approach me in such situations, be it homeless, ugly women or old people.
 

IdealForehead

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A 1-2/10?

These are extremely rare and usually resigned to people that have actual deformities or burns. 1/10s (and 10/10s) you will actually stop to do a double take because they are so unbelievably hideous/attractive.
View attachment 85064

At worst Shane McGowan was a 2 and he's pretty ugly but not sure if he's double take ugly.

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Bit dubious that someone as self aware as you are was that ugly.

Okay. Maybe 3? I don't know. Ratings become subjective and difficult once you get into the very low or high ranges.

Here's what i can say:

- I had the biggest forehead of anyone I've met who didn't have baldness and while i covered it with an owen Wilson style hair it's not the same as having proper hair.

- I had an openbite, underbite, facial asymmetry, crossbite, and excessive chin. Despite spending hundreds of hours looking at jaw surgery before and afters I've not encountered anyone with a case i would consider equivalently bad to mine.

- Before my first jaw surgery, people didn't even like making eye contact with me. During conversation they would frequently look down or away. After jaw surgery eye contact became very good.

- I'm also short, nonwhite, have tiny thin bones, and have a boyish voice, none of which are "attractive".

Overall whatever number you assign i was in the bottom of the bottom. Lowest 1-2% range for sure.

I had a very messed up puberty owing to what happened to my jaws. I was never that great looking but having my jaws that messed up during puberty really fucked me over. Even having it half corrected changed my life. That's why i am still thinking even at my age about getting it fixed the rest of the way.

I have had several different faces now in my life. It makes a big difference.
 
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Timii

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Note first off that balding doesn't necessarily make you ugly, but it's almost a universal rule that being able to grow hair on your temples makes you more attractive than not being able to do that.

It's hell on earth because it's like you're constantly being gaslit by the people you trust and value most in life. It would put me at peace of mind, personally, if someone that I cared about and who cared about me would just come out and say "yeah, you're not particularly attractive". It makes me feel like a loon because every experience I've ever had in real life with women has been overwhelmingly negative, and things that other men do are viewed as positive when they do them but when I do the same thing it's ignored or repulses women. To have that experience of knowing something is different about you compared to other men is heartbreaking in itself, but to then be told by your parents or family members that you're actually good looking creates two problems, first it makes you question your own sanity, second it makes you start questioning your behavior as well as your looks (what if they are right, maybe it's just my personality/the way I act around others?).

I personally had tons of friends in school, the guys liked me, thought I was funny, always wanted to be around me. They used to tell me I should do stand up comedy, whenever a guy in the group was feeling sad or looked down people would come to me to cheer them up because they said I could make anyone laugh. The purpose here isn't to brag, it's to simply point out that people who are properly socialized are capable of making accurate self evaluations. I can, however, tell you I'm not good looking. I'm just not, I've seen myself in videos, I've seen pictures of myself next to other people, I see myself in the mirror in the gym standing next to other men (who actually get attention from females) and I don't look like them, I don't look attractive and I quite literally don't attract women, I'm not attractive. This self evaluation doesn't come from some mental pathology, it comes from the life I've lived and the results I've gotten. The men who get attention don't have particularly high social status or something, they're just normal young guys like me, but they're good looking. It's that simple.

To be told that it's not your looks (or if it is your looks, it's always something you can change like your haircut or your t shirt), but that it's personality/temperament is really messing with me, especially to hear that from people I care about. And it's not that they directly say "it's your personality", rather they say that women don't particularly care about looks, they care about "confidence" or "being funny". That implies I'm not either of those things. Well I am a funny person, people have told me that my entire life, I have no reason to doubt unsolicited compliments from others (especially when it's always the same compliment and I'm not sad or looking down when they say it). But nobody has ever called me cute or hot, so what reason would I have to believe I am? Why should I change my personality, my demeanor, who I fundamentally am when others have liked that about me? I don't want to be some caricature of a confident man, I just want to be me, and others like me when I'm me. Women, however, don't like what I look like, and no amount of lying will change that fact.
This is my life philosophy on this whole looks story. First of all, dude, being handsome is a privilege only few men have. If you are melancholic because you are not good-looking, then I suggest you to wake up, your behaviour is unnecessarily self-destructive. But apparently your problem is that you're unattractive. I really don't have any brilliant advice other than considering surgery. Find out which type of surgery would be clever in your case. There are people here who could help you with that like IdealForehead. And remember the point here is to get some self-esteem and be able to focus on other areas of your life.
 

Timii

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Plus I suggest you meditating daily. It will reduce your BDD-like obsession with your appearance and you will be emotionally healthier (more positive outlook on life and yourself). This in conjuction with surgery to remove your biggest flaws should help you a lot.
 

Roberto_72

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Funkymonk1

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I see a lot of sense in your post and it works both ways. If I notice average-looking girls losing their mind over a handsome guy it makes them even less attractive. Yet when I come across good looking and also friendly, smiling, approachable women who are not that easily impressed by a handsome man, it raises my evaluation of them even further.
I interact with women of all attractiveness levels, be it for coffee, lunch or drinks, so I do not think I am all that shallow - except when it comes to romantic interests of mine, I cannot help it.

You sound sensible and well rounded. I just think girls find guys who are desperate and only after one thing a bit creepy. They can sense it a mile off as well.
I'll admit that when I was younger I've mis-read signals from a girl and spoilt our friendship because I was too full on and they weren't really interested. I was young though and I've learned......
 

cantara

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You sound sensible and well rounded. I just think girls find guys who are desperate and only after one thing a bit creepy. They can sense it a mile off as well.
I'll admit that when I was younger I've mis-read signals from a girl and spoilt our friendship because I was too full on and they weren't really interested. I was young though and I've learned......
This forum is really interesting to me in several regards.

One thing the fact that most think their situation is particularly miserable and difficult, be it their hair, their face, their city, their behaviour, you name it.

I have personally always found it pretty easy to interact with people. In fact, I am quite sure part of my popularity is down to views that I find to be shared here, just that maybe I can talk about a lot of other things too, plus my views are more mild and I don't talk about them as bitterly and frustratedly as maybe others cannot help doing if they were to talk openly about it all. In short, I truly believe I may not the best, but really good at dealing with women. However, I do notice what people rightly say here as well: it only helps me romantically with girls in or below my league. In other words: I'm looksmaxing (clothing, bein really well-groomed), offering a good package (apartment, classy, but not flashy car, well-paid & non-nerdy job hat mothers in law want for their daughter), I have good manners and am critical and not random, yet in general quite benevolent. It's frustrating (and I started to really feel this ftrustration lately) to see how you have really little room left for improvement, also manage to get in touch with women you find attractive (not through dating apps though), only to realize for them it ends with you being classy and entertaining company. And I do not think it's because I lack a killer instinct, come across as too gentle or even gay, because 5s and below do make it clear to me occasionally they'd be up for more.

Your post still makes me think twice though. There was for example that one girl that I did find pretty from the beginning, but had a boyfriend and is so much younger that I never held an ambition. Our interaction developed, we also talked quite a lot about preferences and so on. Over a year later, we were at a point when in my perception, there was something like innocent sexual tension between us,. She didn't want to take it further though, which for me was the usual outcome with a girl above my looks-level. Her saying she'd be embarrassed for me to see her naked was a just as usual excuse, just that she did specify that the fact I put more emphasis on dressing than most women, think about stuff more than most men and that I am very critical (also of myself) and specific regarding a woman's looks may indicate you and others have a point it. I'm asking back though: why does that not bother the odd 2-5? So in the end, to me, it's really just a somewhat plausible excuse for not finding you good-looking enough, while the 2-5s may not find you genuinely desirable, but think you are the best they can get.
 
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disfiguredyoungman

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I'm asking back though: why does that not bother the odd 2-5? In the end, to me, it's really just a somewhat plausible excuse for not finding you not good-looking enough.

Playing the devil's advocate here:
Possibly because their desperation for approval overrides any feelings of shame, caution, regret or self-respect.
Just like I'd suspect a bunch of dudes in here to throw themselves into any degrading, abusive relationships with a 6/10 without thinking twice just to get some sense of validation.

I am not sure that this is the right answer, but it's at least somewhat plausible.
 

Funkymonk1

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I don't think ther's a simple answer to this because girls are complicated sometimes.
It sounds like the girl liked you as a friend and she could probably tell that you found her attractive. Sometimes when girls give you signals and flirt it's just there way of being friendly nothing more because they're comfortable in your company, sometimes they just like the attention. She may have said this as an excuse but maybe she didn't want to spoil your friendship. It's also possible she really was embarrassed about you seeing her naked - even pretty girls can be insecure.
I guess the 2-5 girls can't be as picky. They almost certainly are just as bothered about these things but they can't use them as an excuse if they want a man.
 

cantara

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I don't think ther's a simple answer to this because girls are complicated sometimes.
It sounds like the girl liked you as a friend and she could probably tell that you found her attractive. Sometimes when girls give you signals and flirt it's just there way of being friendly nothing more because they're comfortable in your company, sometimes they just like the attention. She may have said this as an excuse but maybe she didn't want to spoil your friendship. It's also possible she really was embarrassed about you seeing her naked - even pretty girls can be insecure.
I guess the 2-5 girls can't be as picky. They almost certainly are just as bothered about these things but they can't use them as an excuse if they want a man.
Sounds like a fair assessment that I share. And of course, it adds to my frustration, because I know it's not how I am/behave as a person, but rather how my looks are perceived, i.e. something that I'm more or less stuck with and - unlike in my character - something I see signifiacant deficiencies in myself. I'm sure my character has flaws as well, and there also are people who d'ont particularly like me or don't like me at all, but since I'm fine with myself in that regard, I couldn't be bothered much.
 

Exodus2011

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i wish i could be like some people who are ok with occasional casual sex with trashy average looking dumb slutty types and dont really care for deep or meaningful relationships with high quality non primitive girls.

these types also seem to generally not care much for their place on the social hierarchy i.e. its just whatever to them that theyre considered ugly losers

my bald dads like this and thats what i realized lately when trying to vent to him about baldness.

it would be a f*****g blessing to be like this. i listen to ambient electronic and PRETEND to be this kind of disconnected aspie robot type in that peaceful post-masturbation euphoria where i don't care for girls but ofc as soon as the nut recharges im back to being a white knight lol

i mean even if my sex drive disappeared id still care for female and societal approval in general, its not just about the sex. in fact i dont even wanna have sex really i just want girls and society to admire me, or have value at least at the 50th percentile.

btw altruistic love dovey "i love my friendship with you" bullshit doesnt f*****g matter at all. what matters is being admired for actual substance, like achievements and talents and such
 

IdealForehead

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i wish i could be like some people who are ok with occasional casual sex with trashy average looking dumb slutty types and dont really care for deep or meaningful relationships with high quality non primitive girls.

these types also seem to generally not care much for their place on the social hierarchy i.e. its just whatever to them that theyre considered ugly losers

my bald dads like this and thats what i realized lately when trying to vent to him about baldness.

it would be a f*****g blessing to be like this. i listen to ambient electronic and PRETEND to be this kind of disconnected aspie robot type in that peaceful post-masturbation euphoria where i don't care for girls but ofc as soon as the nut recharges im back to being a white knight lol

i mean even if my sex drive disappeared id still care for female and societal approval in general, its not just about the sex. in fact i dont even wanna have sex really i just want girls and society to admire me, or have value at least at the 50th percentile.

btw altruistic love dovey "i love my friendship with you" bullshit doesnt f*****g matter at all. what matters is being admired for actual substance, like achievements and talents and such

We are genetically designed to want approval and affection from women. Guys trying to do MGTOW are just coping same as we are by complaining on this site all day. None of us can have what our biological drive demands us to seek. That creates a void and frustration. We all try to handle it in different ways.

If you were wired with that drive, it never disappears.
 

Exodus2011

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We are genetically designed to want approval and affection from women. Guys trying to do MGTOW are just coping same as we are by complaining on this site all day. None of us can have what our biological drive demands us to seek. That creates a void and frustration. We all try to handle it in different ways.

If you were wired with that drive, it never disappears.
idk some guys seem to really not care about being hot, getting an HQNP girl, status, etc. seems to mainly be low IQs tbh tho lol. which is what the OP is referring to with the "self aware" part
 

IdealForehead

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idk some guys seem to really not care about being hot, getting an HQNP girl, status, etc. seems to mainly be low IQs tbh tho lol. which is what the OP is referring to with the "self aware" part

Side note: I hate the term "HQNP" and think the entire principle is absurd. This is some sh*t that nutbag Tyger dreams about. It's not how actual women or life works. My personal opinion anyway.
 

Patrick_Bateman

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honestly all these lookism / puahate terms are very wierd imo. it's no wonder people at those sort of sites can't get girls, even with hair.
That's an absurd conclusion to make. First of browsing such sites stem from not getting girls, not the other way around. Secondly people who use lookism terms online don't necessarily use them IRL.
 

doyle11

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honestly all these lookism / puahate terms are very wierd imo. it's no wonder people at those sort of sites can't get girls, even with hair.

I don't even know what a lookism or a puahat is. Half the terms on the website I haven't got a clue what they mean outside of the male pattern baldness ones.

Thank god.
 

Cue Bald

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at the end of the day, b****s are b****s.

if you go on puahate (a forum i think it is shut down now) they post that you can't get a girl who isn't morbidly obese if your chin isn't precisely 1.3cm long, and your eyes aren't precisely 33.6% apart from eachother. i remember one guy was doing this chewing exercise for 5 hours a day to try to make his chin better. boggles the mind

oh and your wrists had to have a circumference larger than 10cm of course. No girl will ever go out with a man who's wrists have a circumference less than 10cm. as if they all walk around with a tape measure to check.

as you can expect it is full of very autistic people, like the type of guy that went nuts in gamestop and got arrested because they changed Sonic the Hedgehogs arms from brown to blue

the only thing they are right about is hair, as hair is a massively drastic thing that everyone can see
 

IdealForehead

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I don't even know what a lookism or a puahat is. Half the terms on the website I haven't got a clue what they mean outside of the male pattern baldness ones.

Thank god.

Well then let me burden and torture you a bit with the thinking behind this one.

"HQNP" is some fantasy term invented by a guy who was a major part of driving Elliot Rodger to go crazy and shoot people.

The term is meant to describe these types of guys' "dream girls". Only problem is these girls generally don't exist and are mostly just a figment of their imagination.

The term stands for "high quality non primitive". By high quality they usually mean 7+/10 slim white girls. By non primitive they usually mean slender demure girls with small breasts and reduced secondary sexual characteristics (ie. "girlish" looking), plus usually virginal or near virginal.

It's basically a manifestation of wanting a submissive life sized borderline pedophilic human doll to play with.

This is what happens when you watch too much anime.

The only way these guys are gonna get what they're seeking is if sex androids become a real thing in our lifetime.
 
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