Ben: Diary Of A Heroin Addict

[powersam]

It is hard to compare nicotine and heroin.

The thing is, you could use pharmaceutical grade heroin all day every day for 50 years, and it would cause you no long term damage health wise.

Just as using nicotine via patches would cause you no long term harm.

But people aren't using pharmaceutical grade heroin, they're using street drugs of unknown purity cut with god knows what.

Nor are they using patches, they're smoking.

If you look at total deaths caused by, and cost to society, smoking is worse without a doubt.

 

[Ende]

And how many people are smoking tobacco, compared to injecting heroin? How many heroin addicts live long enough to experience long term effects of street heroin abuse?

 

[Ende]

What's the cost to society if we compare those two? Tobacco is legal and heavily taxed, at least here. The smokers probably finance all the health care they'll ever need, and more - at least in my country. Heroin... A lot of people who're addicted to hard drugs become criminals, because that's the only way they'll be able to finance their consumption. Break in, stealing, prostitution and dealing has its toll on society, in addition you have to pay for the law enforcement, trials, prison - and perhaps rehab. You have to pay for health care when they OD.

 

[oni]

We are not discussing delivery methods or the fact you use steroids.

Yes, we are. That's half the part of using a drug; and you claim that smoking tobacco involves a greater risk compared to injecting street heroin I.V. I mentioned that I'm occasionally smoking, and using steroids, to underline that I know which precautions that are needed, and dangers that injecting something to your body poses - and that inhaling something is a lot safer.

If you want to compare heroin to tobacco, at least compare smoking of the substances. Either way, you're wrong, because opiates leaves no room for error, as opposed to tobacco.

Risks of injecting "street" Heroin are from everything else but the bloody Heroin! There is no risk from injecting pharmaceutical grade heroin! Just like powersam said.....................

But there is a risk from smoking tobacco...............

The addiction rate for heroin is lower than nicotine..............

Ok lets talk about smoking heroin vs smoking tobacco?

Both can cause lung cancer and also it is pretty hard to OD on either one..

Or we can talk about injecting heroin vs injecting nicotine?

Hmmmm your margin of error on nicotine is pretty bloody low and only 50mg can kill you..................... :whistle:

So the problem is not really heroin is it!

Getting people off heroin is not really a problem if you use pharmaceutical grade heroin and wean them off and not sticking them on methadone!!

It is the same as when you wean people off nicotine, by using controlled dosages of nicotine!

The real problem is when people vilify drugs, like heroin!

 

[Ende]

Ever heard of anyone injecting nicotine? What about someone dying from OD? Who has access to pharmaceutical heroin? I seriously doubt that any addicts have that. Is it even produced anymore? Therefore, it's not really an argument - is it? The majority of people are using street heroin - which makes the impurities a part of that drug. You don't get 100% clean heroin, at least not most of the people.

Everything changes when you compare smoking heroin and nicotine, although I personally believe that heroin is more dangerous, but maybe I'm wrong. Do you have some interesting articles, documentaries or whatever which support what you're saying - that smoking tobacco is more dangerous than heroin? I'm not so sure that it isn't possible to OD on smoking heroin either, but I believe that injecting it, eating and snorting it increases the chance of an OD, compared to smoking it. I think that smoking it is the safest way to use it.

Getting people off heroin is not really a problem if you use pharmaceutical grade heroin and wean them off and not sticking them on methadone!!

It is the same as when you wean people off nicotine, by using controlled dosages of nicotine!

That, I do believe.

 

[Ende]

However, when you're comparing smoking tobacco to injecting pure, pharmaceutical heroin, heroin is definitely better, as it's a clean drug - but things probably changes again, if you compare injecting pharmaceutical heroin to nicotine.

 

[oni]

However, when you're comparing smoking tobacco to injecting pure, pharmaceutical heroin, heroin is definitely better, as it's a clean drug - but things probably changes again, if you compare injecting pharmaceutical heroin to nicotine.

No, nicotine is more toxic than heroin, it has a lower margin of error!

 

[oni]

Ever heard of anyone injecting nicotine? What about someone dying from OD? Who has access to pharmaceutical heroin? I seriously doubt that any addicts have that. Is it even produced anymore? Therefore, it's not really an argument - is it? The majority of people are using street heroin - which makes the impurities a part of that drug. You don't get 100% clean heroin, at least not most of the people.

Everything changes when you compare smoking heroin and nicotine, although I personally believe that heroin is more dangerous, but maybe I'm wrong. Do you have some interesting articles, documentaries or whatever which support what you're saying - that smoking tobacco is more dangerous than heroin? I'm not so sure that it isn't possible to OD on smoking heroin either, but I believe that injecting it, eating and snorting it increases the chance of an OD, compared to smoking it. I think that smoking it is the safest way to use it.

Getting people off heroin is not really a problem if you use pharmaceutical grade heroin and wean them off and not sticking them on methadone!!

It is the same as when you wean people off nicotine, by using controlled dosages of nicotine!

That, I do believe.

Yes they still produce pharmaceutical grade heroin and if they stop vilifying it, we could help a lot more people.....

It is pretty hard to OD smoking heroin.....

http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/admin/od_smoking.shtml

The reason why people don't OD on nicotine is because tobacco is considered a low purity form of nicotine, making it very hard to OD on it.

This is not to say people have never had an OD on nicotine, stick lots of nicotine patches on and keep smoking and you can die........................

With regards to smoking pharmaceutical grade nicotine, you will die pretty quick if you get the amount wrong...........................

 

[Ende]

Interesting. I thought I.V. injections were the shortest route to full effect of the drug, but the site you linked to says it's smoking? When I smoke tobacco, I usually feel the peak of each hit within 10 seconds. I've had an I.V. injection at a hospital once, and as far as I can remember, the effect was instant.

 

[powersam]

That documentary was heavy.

 

[oni]

Interesting. I thought I.V. injections were the shortest route to full effect of the drug, but the site you linked to says it's smoking? When I smoke tobacco, I usually feel the peak of each hit within 10 seconds. I've had an I.V. injection at a hospital once, and as far as I can remember, the effect was instant.

I think it depends on the drug but I think the route of the blood travels faster to the brain from the lungs than the arm.

In the neck is a different matter......

 

[optimus prime]

Risks of injecting "street" Heroin are from everything else but the bloody Heroin! There is no risk from injecting pharmaceutical grade heroin! Just like powersam said.....................

I think you are nitpicking. You could argue that if Heroin did not exist then they would not be adding the other sh*t to it.

Also, what is your point, you want Heroin legalised or tobacco made illegal?

 

[oni]

Risks of injecting "street" Heroin are from everything else but the bloody Heroin! There is no risk from injecting pharmaceutical grade heroin! Just like powersam said.....................

I think you are nitpicking. You could argue that if Heroin did not exist then they would not be adding the other sh*t to it.

Also, what is your point, you want Heroin legalised or tobacco made illegal?

You could also argue if you did not exist, you could not have asked that question...................but that would be nitpicking... :whistle:

Also, what is your point! In asking that question. I have no ulterior motive but I think you have......................... :whistle:

PowderedSpam! back to your Bin Dead thread.........

 

[optimus prime]

:roll:

 

[cuebald]

Heroin is prescribed semi-often on the NHS as diamorphine, usually for cancer patients. Its effects on the body are basically as morphine's are. (Heroin is basically a more potent form of morphine - 1.3x as strong.)
The drug doesn't by itself damage your body. You could take the drug heavily for 30 years, and provided you ate and drank (and lived normally), and you could come off it with no problems at all (apart from the month of bad W/D's of course.)
The problem with addicts is that they cannot afford to do both, they can afford a) good food or b) H. and so they choose H.
This is why they become malnourished, thin and sickly. Their teeth fall out because they don't look after them, etc.
There's a lot of weird disinformation about the drug, people thinking that W/D's can kill, or that you will see babies crawling on the ceiling etc. (too many hollywood movies).
One of the problems with the drug is that people take a hit or two, realise it is nothing like the movies, think everything that is said about the drug is BS and that they can handle the drug fine, then before they know it they're doing it 4 times a day and are hooked.
I think it should be given to addicts for a nominal fee. It costs pennies to manufacture a dose. Why not sell it to addicts for 50p a hit. Then they wouldn't have to rob houses for drugs money, and there would be no dealers, and they would be guaranteed the hit wouldn't be cut, or unusually potent.

 

[powersam]

I think it should be given to addicts for a nominal fee. It costs pennies to manufacture a dose. Why not sell it to addicts for 50p a hit. Then they wouldn't have to rob houses for drugs money, and there would be no dealers, and they would be guaranteed the hit wouldn't be cut, or unusually potent.

Yeah that's what methadone clinics are for....

From what I've read, methadone doesn't come anywhere near to dulling the craving.

 

[Ende]

Yeah, but for some people those alternatives aren't enough. I agree that treatment with heroin should be available. They're using this sh*t anyway, and we can make it a lot safer by providing them with pharmaceutical grade, sterile equipment, and rooms with medical supervision - where they can inject themselves. Of course it's not that easy, we would need to have a great rehabilitation alternative as well.

 

[oni]

What you need to do is use the method with the highest success rate..............heroin!

Methadone does not work very well, the person just sells it and buys heroin off the street! :uglylol:

Again this is all about vilifying the drug, getting off methadone can be worse than heroin!

 

[Ende]

Isn't this done in Holland? Maybe we should give them a one way ticket?

 

[powersam]

Some interesting studies out there:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125072453668244553.html - New Study Suggests Alternative to Methadone Is More Effective


Or http://www.physorg.com/news197813439.html