Best natural treatment?

[rodd]

Hi,

I’m 29 years old and have been loosing my hair slowly since I was about 23. For the past three years I have been on both Rogaine and Perpecia. Recently my girlfriend gave birth to our first child, which meant that I could no longer afford both treatments. I personally have found Propecia to be more effective, so I have chosen to stick with that.

I have been doing a little research on the net to find effective natural ways to slow hair loss, but there seems to be so many different remedies. I’m not sure whether these are just impotent wives tales or actually effective. If any of you have tried some of these natural remedies, could you please let me know which were the most effective?

Thanks

 

[lain]

Try Kirkland Minoxidil instead, its much cheaper than Rogain brand.

oh and congratulations on the baby!

 

[Londo]

rodd, have you tried getting 5mg Proscar and cutting it up into 1/4 or 1/5 pieces instead of using Propecia? They are both same drug, Finasteride, just different doses. That is the best tip I learned from this site. Propecia cost me $70 a month and wasn't covered in any way by my insurance. My insurance got the price of generic Proscar down to $60 and I can pay for it with my health savings money. So, that $60 worth will last me at least 4 months :mrgreen:

The cheapest Minoxidil I've found is at Target for $19 for three months. I think I'm already hooked on Rogaine foam though. Target had that for $50 for 3 months.

 

[Pondle]

I have been doing a little research on the net to find effective natural ways to slow hair loss, but there seems to be so many different remedies. I’m not sure whether these are just impotent wives tales or actually effective. If any of you have tried some of these natural remedies, could you please let me know which were the most effective?
Thanks

There really aren't any natural remedies. Saw Palmetto is the herbal ingredient used in a lot of scam products, but it is generally accepted to be ineffective. See this article. Many guys take MSM and find it to be useful for general skin and hair 'health', but it won't be effective against male pattern baldness.

 

[dellz8]

best natural ingredients

Over the past ten years, I have tried nearly everything medically and natural. While I have found personally that propecia works best for me, some natural remedies have also been quite beneficial. Look for anti oxidant compounds found in grape seed extract. Other natural ingredients such as lavender, rosemary and rosehip seed oil to name just a few can all be helpful too. Check out my blog at http://hairlosssolutions.blogfreehere.c ... emedi.html for a complete guide.

Good luck!

 

[docj077]

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/2/516

Take a look at a figure 2.

Soy and black tea together or soy AND green tea together seem to be quite effective at lowering DHT levels. Unfortunately, green tea alone seems to raise DHT levels significantly in mice. All though this experiment is being done in mice, I'd still take it to heart when looking for a good natural regimen. Black tea seems to be an inhibitor of five alpha reductase and is probably very effective when internalized constantly and consistantly.

 

[tomas99]

There were many studies which showed that green tea alone inhibits 5AR and only ONE study that says green tea raised levels of 5AR.

Black tea seems to be an inhibitor of five alpha reductase and is probably very effective when internalized constantly and consistantly.

If black tea is inhibitor of 5AR, green tea must be too cause there is explanation how could bee black tea changed to inhibit 5AR during its manifacturing from green tea.

To be accurate, green tea catechins seems to inhibit only Type 1 5AR, but also inhibits metalloproteinase- -2(MMP-2) (also known as gelatinase A) and metalloproteinase-9(MMP-9) which are pretty much involved in degeneration process.

Also, it has great antioxidantion effect.

STUDY
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1995 Sep 25;214(3):833-8. Related Articles, Links Click here to read Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate.

Liao S, Hiipakka RA.

Ben May Institute, University of Chicago, IL 60637, USA.

Inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase may be effective in the treatment of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone-dependent abnormalities, such as benign prostate hyperplasia, prostate cancer and certain skin diseases. The green tea catechins, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate and (-)epicatechin-3-gallate, but not (-)epicatechin and (-)epigallocatechin, are potent inhibitors of type 1 but not type 2 5 alpha-reductase. (-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.

What was gleaned out of the previous thread that was some components of Green Tea increase 5-alpha reductase type I.

However, the primary Gallate EGCG inhibits 5-alpha reductase.

The main kicker is the most recent study, which shows human hair growth both in vitro and in vivo.

Human hair growth enhancement in vitro by green tea epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG).

* Kwon OS, * Han JH, * Yoo HG, * Chung JH, * Cho KH, * Eun HC, * Kim KH.

Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging and Hair Research, Clinical Research Institute, Seoul National University Hospital, Institute of Dermatological Science, Seoul National University, 110-744 Seoul, Republic of Korea.

Green tea is a popular worldwide beverage, and its potential beneficial effects such as anti-cancer and anti-oxidant properties are believed to be mediated by epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG), a major constituent of polyphenols. Recently, it was reported that EGCG might be useful in the prevention or treatment of androgenetic alopecia by selectively inhibiting 5alpha-reductase activity. However, no report has been issued to date on the effect of EGCG on human hair growth. This study was undertaken to measure the effect of EGCG on hair growth in vitro and to investigate its effect on human dermal papilla cells (DPCs) in vivo and in vitro. EGCG promoted hair growth in hair follicles ex vivo culture and the proliferation of cultured DPCs. The growth stimulation of DPCs by EGCG in vitro may be mediated through the upregulations of phosphorylated Erk and Akt and by an increase in the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax ratio. Similar results were also obtained in in vivo dermal papillae of human scalps. Thus, we suggest that EGCG stimulates human hair growth through these dual proliferative and anti-apoptotic effects on DPCs.

Add on the fact that green tea inhibits MMP-2, -9 the very factors responsible via signaling from DHT to induce hair loss. Further, EGCG has been demonstrated per the study above to increase in the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax ratio in dermal papilla cells--sounds like a winner to me.

Additional advantages are it's ability to reduce oxidative stress, which is crucial to desensitize DHT to follicles, it's modulating effects on IGF-1 and its normalization effects on SHBG.

Not enough SHBG is bad and too much is bad; EGCG helps normalize this.

If that wasn't enough, green tea demonstrates improvements in skin, anti-carninogenic, benefits to cardiovascular system and liver function. Improvements in blood sugar metabolism and helps to lower triglycerides (also important in hair loss prevention).

An increase in the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax ratio - btw. this is exactly what Minoxidil does.

So called naturalls may seem like total crap but there are so many ways how you can fight male pattern baldness - e.g. desensitize DHT to follicles by using as many antioxidants as you can - in food and through supplements.

 

[Pondle]

How much soy/black tea would you have to consume daily to achieve 'finasteride' levels of DHT inhibition? Are we talking about a degree of consumption that could be practically achieved, at reasonable cost, within a regular diet?

 

[docj077]

Your goal with teas is not to inhibit five alpha reductase, but to elevate the levels of circulating SHBG. Using teas as a means of lowering DHT at the enzyme level is pointless. Combining them with soy products should be highly effective. Afterall, balding men have been found to have low SHBG levels and elevated androgen levels.

Black tea is more oxidized than green tea and contains more caffeine even though they are derived from the same plant. Green tea may contain more catechins, but it is obvious that green tea alone raises hormone levels while black tea alone lowers DHT levels in laboratory animals. Plus, intake of green tea can not coincide with the ingestion of milk as casein binds with EGCG.

 

[allen_australia]

"green tea alone raises hormone levels"

This is only true for SHBG. The catechins in green tea lower DHT levels in the skin. This is proven. If you're taking finasteride, which i'm not, you'd be well advised to take green tea too.

Finasteride pretty much only affects DHT levels in the prostate, and to a lesser extent, serum. It doesn't really affect DHT levels in the hair follicle/skin. Green tea is amazing for that.

Black tea, forget it. Dairy, forget it. Soy, take it only if you are ingesting the complete soy bean, not an isolated soy protein and not soy isoflavones alone. They work in the same way dairy does to increase levels of IGF-1, often above tolerable levels, and thus encourage vertex/crown balding.

Green tea is your friend. Have lots.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

"green tea alone raises hormone levels"

This is only true for SHBG. The catechins in green tea lower DHT levels in the skin. This is proven. If you're taking finasteride, which i'm not, you'd be well advised to take green tea too.

Finasteride pretty much only affects DHT levels in the prostate, and to a lesser extent, serum. It doesn't really affect DHT levels in the hair follicle/skin. Green tea is amazing for that.

Black tea, forget it. Dairy, forget it. Soy, take it only if you are ingesting the complete soy bean, not an isolated soy protein and not soy isoflavones alone. They work in the same way dairy does to increase levels of IGF-1, often above tolerable levels, and thus encourage vertex/crown balding.

Green tea is your friend. Have lots.

wow...I dont know where your getting your info from...BUT finasteride does effect your serum and hair follicle DHT.

You'd be a fool to think that green tea would effect your serum dht more than finasteride.

1mg of finasteride decreases serum dht by 60-70%
1mg of finasteride decreases follicle dht by 85%

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

"green tea alone raises hormone levels"

This is only true for SHBG. The catechins in green tea lower DHT levels in the skin. This is proven. If you're taking finasteride, which i'm not, you'd be well advised to take green tea too.

Finasteride pretty much only affects DHT levels in the prostate, and to a lesser extent, serum. It doesn't really affect DHT levels in the hair follicle/skin. Green tea is amazing for that.

Black tea, forget it. Dairy, forget it. Soy, take it only if you are ingesting the complete soy bean, not an isolated soy protein and not soy isoflavones alone. They work in the same way dairy does to increase levels of IGF-1, often above tolerable levels, and thus encourage vertex/crown balding.

Green tea is your friend. Have lots.

another thing...if it only effected your prostate's dht, and had no effect on serum or follicle dht...how do you think it would it have any effect at stopping or slowing hair loss?

 

[allen_australia]

we can agree to disagree i guess, finasteride is an indirect method of attacking hairloss, it reduces dht in many other areas of the body, serum included before it gets to the hair follicle.

i don't think green tea effects serum dht more than finasteride and never suggested this. what i did state was that green tea more directly prevents dht from "building up" if you like in the hair follicle, much more effectively than finasteride.

green tea is a chemical compound, just like finasteride, just because its "natural" doesn't make it safer than finasteride. so that doesn't come into the equation. what does, is that its simply much more effective. so i use it as part of a comprehensive, anti-hormonal, program that finasteride can't match. unfortunately. i wish it did. be much easier to take 1 pill a day than a few each meal. although the few i do have lots of other synergistic benefits so its all cool i guess...

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

we can agree to disagree i guess, finasteride is an indirect method of attacking hairloss, it reduces dht in many other areas of the body, serum included before it gets to the hair follicle.

i don't think green tea effects serum dht more than finasteride and never suggested this. what i did state was that green tea more directly prevents dht from "building up" if you like in the hair follicle, much more effectively than finasteride.

green tea is a chemical compound, just like finasteride, just because its "natural" doesn't make it safer than finasteride. so that doesn't come into the equation. what does, is that its simply much more effective. so i use it as part of a comprehensive, anti-hormonal, program that finasteride can't match. unfortunately. i wish it did. be much easier to take 1 pill a day than a few each meal. although the few i do have lots of other synergistic benefits so its all cool i guess...

bud...you're wrong...studies show that 1mg of finasteride reduces follicle dht by 85%...not scalp dht...I am talking about dht produced WITHIN the follicle. What I am stating is a fact, if you dont want to believe it your loss. Green tea can not come anywhere near as close to inhibiting 5ARII as finasteride....I dont care if you drink a gallon a day.

 

[allen_australia]

believe what you will, those studies were conducted by merck and co, the company that sells finasteride and licenses the generic versions.

i'll believe the independent studies done on finasteride vs other treatments, thanks very much!

not only that, dht isn't even the sole cause of hairloss, its just the end result, kind of like blaming a junkie's death on heroin, when really the true cause was the depression/apathy/whatever that caused them to take up heroin in the first place.

likewise, dht is just the tip of the hairloss iceberg, and treating dht for hairloss is really only joining a battle thats already been systemically occurring in the body in other ways. the way to treat hairloss, is in a complete hormonal attack, to breakdown the elements that ultimately culminate in increased dht.

it is these elements, bud, that finasteride cannot address, and indeed was never designed to so its hardly its fault.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

believe what you will, those studies were conducted by merck and co, the company that sells finasteride and licenses the generic versions.

i'll believe the independent studies done on finasteride vs other treatments, thanks very much!

not only that, dht isn't even the sole cause of hairloss, its just the end result, kind of like blaming a junkie's death on heroin, when really the true cause was the depression/apathy/whatever that caused them to take up heroin in the first place.

likewise, dht is just the tip of the hairloss iceberg, and treating dht for hairloss is really only joining a battle thats already been systemically occurring in the body in other ways. the way to treat hairloss, is in a complete hormonal attack, to breakdown the elements that ultimately culminate in increased dht.

it is these elements, bud, that finasteride cannot address, and indeed was never designed to so its hardly its fault.

O RLY?? why do the psuedo hermaphrodites in the DR never lose hair? they have all the same hormones we have...EXCEPT 5arII and DHT...NONE OF THEM lose any hair...DHT is the primary cause of hair loss but other male androgens play an effect as well.

there are plenty of independant studies done on finasteride...why do you go do a search for yourself?

Here is one...
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... t/79/3/703

 

[allen_australia]

"O RLY?? why do the psuedo hermaphrodites in the DR never lose hair?"

uh, having had many friends in the queer scene for the past 15 years i can assure you this sweeping generalisation is completely incorrect. and by queer scene, i mean the neo-contemporary "umbrella" descriptor applied to all those of non-normative sexualities. ie. not simply gay and lesbian, but rather transsexuals, transgenders, asexuals, etc etc etc.

hairloss affects those going from male to female gender transitions. its an urban myth that it doesn't. wigs are often used.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

"O RLY?? why do the psuedo hermaphrodites in the DR never lose hair?"

uh, having had many friends in the queer scene for the past 15 years i can assure you this sweeping generalisation is completely incorrect.

dude what are you talking about!! it is well known that male psuedo-hermaphrodites from the Dominican do not encounter hair loss at all.

what does that have to do with your gay friends?

Im done arguing with you...You really dont have much of a clue as far as hair loss goes.

 

[allen_australia]

"You really dont have much of a clue as far as hair loss goes."

Really? Is that why my regimen is growing back my hair then? Without finasteride, or minoxidil.

I didn't think we were arguing, just friendly discussion! Chill out...

 

[docj077]

"You really dont have much of a clue as far as hair loss goes."

Really? Is that why my regimen is growing back my hair then? Without finasteride, or minoxidil.

I didn't think we were arguing, just friendly discussion! Chill out...

Big words right there. Post pics or what you're saying are simply empty words.

By the way, with regards to hair loss, HTGT is correct.

With regards to soy and teas, you appear to be wrong. All that is required are the soy phytochemicals and depending upon the method of purification, the phytochemicals can be fully or at least partially maintained in soy protein. There are significant differences between black tea and green tea with regards to their chemical make-up even though they are derived from the same plant.

You'll notice that laboratory studies seem to demonstrate that a combination of soy phytochemicals and teas are required to achieve significant reductions in DHT. Green tea by itself actually increases DHT levels, so it would seem more worthwhile to me to use black tea as it lowers DHT when used alone and it lowers even more when used with soy.