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Best Way to Leave finasteride
- Thread starter Broken
- Start date
Enden said:Dr. Crisler, who believes that using AI's is a big mistake? Anyway, I was referring to the guys at propeciahelp when I spoke about AIS.
Well that is generic advice from the propeciahelp website. Im assuming it was constructed by the two most knowledgable posters out there - Mew and Awor. Both used propecia before and both have PFS. Dare I say their knowledge on the subject vastly exheeds ours. Granted their theories may be a little more extravagant but in respect to the tapering off, i certainly would give their opinions, along with Crisler's, serious creedance on the subject.
Dr Crisler doesn't say AI's are a mistake, they are a vital part of his current protocols.
We know for a fact if you're going to have a crash you'll have one by going cold turkey. We dont know for a fact, if you will still crash if you systematically taper off it. My instinct would say that if you had bad sides on the drug you're more likely to have continued problems regardless of your method of cessation [if you are one of the unlucky few that do, that is], but I reckon tapering off the drug could help some people.
Mew and Awor are lost if they truly belive that androgen deprivation is the reason for side effects from finasteride, and that we're dealing with androgen insensitivity syndrome.
They're making this situation worse with their bullshit. If I had believed what they say, I would have committed suicide. They're presenting their nonsense as theory, but it's a hypothesis, which leaves people with no hope. What the f*** are they thinking?
They're making this situation worse with their bullshit. If I had believed what they say, I would have committed suicide. They're presenting their nonsense as theory, but it's a hypothesis, which leaves people with no hope. What the f*** are they thinking?
That's what they think. You'll crash eventually, if your ratios are bad enough.Colin297 said:We know for a fact if you're going to have a crash you'll have one by going cold turkey.
Enden said:Mew and Awor are lost if they truly belive that androgen deprivation is the reason for side effects from finasteride, and that we're dealing with androgen insensitivity syndrome.
They're making this situation worse with their bullshit. If I had believed what they say, I would have committed suicide. They're presenting their nonsense as theory, but it's a hypothesis, which leaves people with no hope. What the f*ck are they thinking?
I'll not speculate on whether their theories are helpful or not because i really dont know. Noone knows for sure at this point.
BUT i do appreciate their hypothesis is more to do with the more extreme cases. Some people really react badly to finasteride. I mean, they become bed-ridden. Many others, including the likes of awor, have tried just about every drug without much success. They just seem damaged and less responsive than the normal person.
Androgen deprivation is the reason for many side effects of finasteride. Do you think not??
As for androgen insensitivity. I'm not convinced myself but certain cases, as above-mentioned, do appear different so who knows. Our bodies are strange things.
Enden said:That's what they think. You'll crash eventually, if your ratios are bad enough.Colin297 said:We know for a fact if you're going to have a crash you'll have one by going cold turkey.
Yeah, but the idea is the ratios dont get as bad as they would have.
It came out the wrong way. Androgen deprivation is the indirect cause-, and estrogen is the direct cause, and the main reason for side effects. Low androgen levels clearly plays a part in PFS. What I tried to point out, is that they believe that low DHT level is the reason for side effects, and that downregulation of the androgen receptors is the reason for the famous crash. That's why they suggest tapering off!Colin297 said:Androgen deprivation is the reason for many side effects of finasteride. Do you think not??
I believe that you risk getting worse ratios by tapering off, as you keep suppressing DHT.Colin297 said:Yeah, but the idea is the ratios dont get as bad as they would have.
Enden said:It came out the wrong way. Androgen deprivation is the indirect cause-, and estrogen is the direct cause, and the main reason for side effects. Low androgen levels clearly plays a part in PFS. What I tried to point out, is that they believe that low DHT level is the reason for side effects, and that downregulation of the androgen receptors is the reason for the famous crash. That's why they suggest tapering off!Colin297 said:Androgen deprivation is the reason for many side effects of finasteride. Do you think not??
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Not necessarily. Certainly this wouldn't be the reason for Dr Crisler advocating tapering off considering he doesn't appear to subscribe to these theories.
What they say, as quoted, is that tapering off may reduce endoctrine system shock. A sudden burst of DHT as you put it, or whatever the heck happens (im sure its pretty elaborate, especially for someone who has used finasteride for a prolonged period) can cause endoctrine shock and potentially semi-permanent (and certainly complex) damage. We aren't sure what or why but some peoples bodies definately react negatively to this "shock". It may be that the DHT wave after surpression for too long can send shockwaves throughout the system resulting in hormonal imbalance and even other things. Whether downregulation of androgen receptors is a realistic "response" or not is debatable but, either way, the logic for tapering off is much the same.
Our bodies can sometimes react wildy and unpredictably to sudden change. This can and does happen, so unfortunately it's not really up for debate. THe debate here is whether tapering off can help and some people think it might mitigate such shock.
Just for the record - i stopped cold tukey, i never crashed and i doubt tapering would have made any difference. But that doesn't mean it wouldnt help others.
Enden said:What about body builders abusing steroids? Supraphysiological levels of testosterone for 3 months, without any damage... Weird, isn't it?
Well, I'm not sure. Because firstly because alot of abusers do crash their endoctrine systems. Hard.
And secondly - apples and oranges. Unnatural surpression of DHT (inhibition on the type II reductabase) and subsequent, sudden, cessation of same is a whole different kettle of fish to steroids.
But it is interesting you mention steriod abusers, because even these guys implement elaborate PTA cycles to help massage their endoctrine system back to normality after juicing. Maybe finasteride users could learn a thing or two from that, actually.
Enden said:People have to make up their own mind. I wouldn't taper off, what they do, is their choice. They've to live with the consequences.
I agree
But for people taking the drug for many months or years its doubtful tapering off will do any extra damage so it's hardly a risk.
Someone who takes finasteride for a few weeks or something, i would say tapering off could be potentially more detrimental.
Who knows even, tapering could help some and hinder others. Its difficult to tell.
To some extent, I would agree. It depends on the drug, and the situation. It's different if it's causing severe damage, IMO. An alcoholic shouldn't taper off if his liver is about to fail. Finasteride is poison in my eyes. It sabotages an important, natural mechanism. It's not doing any good to anything, besides the hair on the top of your head.
Thought I'd update you all..Took my last finasteride dose yesterday..Hopefully, that will be my last ever!
Been taking 0.125 mg EOD for the last 1.5-2 months and I can feel the change in my body..Morning wood is back, albeit slowly, erections are harder & 'sustainable'..
I still have my fingers crossed though, the period of next 3-4 months is crucial to my complete recovery..Experiencing a shed from the past 1.5 weeks, but may be it was anyway coming after some 5-6 months of absolutely ZERO shedding..So it may or may not have anything to do with me going off finasteride..
I don't know if taking finasteride was the right choice, though I have to give it credit for halting & reversing my hairloss (with help from Minoxidil, I'll never know) but results over this 10 month period have been rather disappointing..
Oh & any one thinking of leaving finasteride, I'd definitely recommend they wean off it rather than quit cold turkey..
Cheers
Been taking 0.125 mg EOD for the last 1.5-2 months and I can feel the change in my body..Morning wood is back, albeit slowly, erections are harder & 'sustainable'..
I still have my fingers crossed though, the period of next 3-4 months is crucial to my complete recovery..Experiencing a shed from the past 1.5 weeks, but may be it was anyway coming after some 5-6 months of absolutely ZERO shedding..So it may or may not have anything to do with me going off finasteride..
I don't know if taking finasteride was the right choice, though I have to give it credit for halting & reversing my hairloss (with help from Minoxidil, I'll never know) but results over this 10 month period have been rather disappointing..
Oh & any one thinking of leaving finasteride, I'd definitely recommend they wean off it rather than quit cold turkey..
Cheers