blood circultion in bald men study

[S Foote.]

I actually tried this. 1,25 mg ED with Topical Finasteride Liposomal 1,5%. I have only regrets, my hairline lost half an inch since januari when I started the topical. Quit after 4 months as my hairline seemed to be getting worse rapidly.

I presume you used the topical Finasteride on your balding scalp? That is not my suggestion if you read my post again. What you should be doing with such topicals, is using them on the hairy parts of the scalp and the beard area, according to this indicated action of DHT.

 

[S Foote.]

I meant women bald less, bad typo. You are right there is not enough conclusive evidence to tell. It is just my theory obtained from many studies to explain the gap in the DHT theory. The strange thing has always been the question of why Androgenetic Alopecia can progress even with very low androgen levels, and the AR "sensitivity" being the cause. However, why does sensitivity seem to change? This implies that epigenetics play a large role in this, and sensitivity is mediated via an increase in androgen receptor levels and signal amplification. However, it is important to note that genetics can influence epigenetics too. People have different environmental thresholds before gene expression is altered enough to cause significant effects. If you look at old men, how many do you see are NW1 and not higher? Almost all old men have at least some levels of recession or thinning. Those of us with Androgenetic Alopecia just has this recession process progress faster than normal.

While ultimately hormone driven, the true direct cause is the immune system response, and the AR seems to be a strong mediator in the immune system. Certain environmental insults can cause an increase in AR signaling, because AR is a mediator of inflammation and immunity. So are androgens the messenger or the direct cause? I believe it's both.



What is your take on the tight scalp theory (not expanding skull theory)?

The scalp is tight in male pattern baldness. The only thing that makes sense of this is DHT induced lymphedema, because this increased fluid pressure also explains all the other observations. The immunology and changes in the various mast cell secreted prostaglandins, the hypoxia, and the increased sweating capacity.

In DHT related hair growth/loss, the relationship with the local tissue fluid pressures has been proven. Local sweating efficiency depends upon the local tissue fluid pressures, and this in-vivo Human study very accurately measured the changes here. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00636601

 

[S Foote.]

Yes, you are right. And the same for healthy scalp hair.

All you say is well, but my question is related to the posibles changes in the viscosity of sebum. Sebum is a fluid and all people know that in the neighbourgh of root hair exist a sebaceous gland secreting a type of hair fat, and it could take part in the external resistance to follicle enlargement, is it possible?

In my opinion Armando any theory about changes in hair growth, must have some link to purpose in evolution. The original purpose of hair was for temperature control of the body. Can you describe any link with this action of sebum upon hair growth, and temperature control?

There is an important purpose here for a link to hair growth and external tissue fluid pressures, as I argue in my linked article.

 

[Armando Jose]

In my opinion Armando any theory about changes in hair growth, must have some link to purpose in evolution. The original purpose of hair was for temperature control of the body. Can you describe any link with this action of sebum upon hair growth, and temperature control?

There is an important purpose here for a link to hair growth and external tissue fluid pressures, as I argue in my linked article.

you still do not answer my question (It is possible that changes in the rheology of sebum can take part in the external resistance to follicle enlargement? ,..., but there is no problem, No news, Good news. C)


Yes, my friend, evolution is the key, but IMHO common hair loss is not the purpose of being evolution. My paper:
Cultural evolution as a possible triggering or causative factor of common baldnessis is very different from the work of Cabanac:" The hypothesis according to which male common baldness has developed in the human species as a compensation for the growth of a beard in order to achieve heat loss has been tested., ..., These results support the hypothesis that male baldness is a thermoregulatory compensation for the growth of a beard in adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3203673

we have the most evolved hair in any species, and it is related to temperature control (an recent paper https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/29/430454 ). I dont know articles about sebum and temperature but there is a lot of them regarding that hair is only possible with an operative sebaceous gland atached at them.

 

[skinnywolfboy]

do people who suffer from illness that affect blood vessels like vasculitis or diabetes lose more hair?

about that, wanna know something funny? My brother is a type 1 diabetic and still has zero hairloss, me I'm not diabetic at all but suffer from pretty severe diffuse hairloss

 

[Trichosan]

The scalp is tight in male pattern baldness..."
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00636601

The scalp on my head is loose as a goose as it can be moved considerably over the skull itself. Or, do you mean the bond between the layers of the scalp itself?

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

about that, wanna know something funny? My brother is a type 1 diabetic and still has zero hairloss, me I'm not diabetic at all but suffer from pretty severe diffuse hairloss

former german foreign minister

well known type 2 diabetes

in the end it comes all down to genes probably

if you dont have the balding gene you can inject as much steroids as you want, you can be as much diabetic as you want and you wont get bald


if you have the balding gene these factors might speed up the process but are not a game changer



we need this genes identified and than i want to be the first man who gets his genetic crispr modified asap

 

[skinnywolfboy]

yup, pretty much, and at this rate we'll probably successfully colonize Mars before we conquer hairloss

 

[Arrade]

I'm aware you're a member of the ray peat forum, and to me this smacks of typical contortionist thinking on that forum trying to shove everything into a ray peat paradigm. What evidence is there for the relationship you just described?

lol bro I'm currently banned from that forum
Estrogen causes inflammation, atherosclerosis is an inflammatory disorder
I once saw a study that elevated serum estrogen caused androgenic actions in the skin, wish I saved it

Elevated estrogen also lowers metabolism and increases cancer cell growth, mast cell release, prostaglandins,

 

[Thebaldcel]

former german foreign minister

well known type 2 diabetes

View attachment 101851


in the end it comes all down to genes probably

if you dont have the balding gene you can inject as much steroids as you want, you can be as much diabetic as you want and you wont get bald


if you have the balding gene these factors might speed up the process but are not a game changer

we need this genes identified and than i want to be the first man who gets his genetic crispr modified asap

Do people really still think there is a balding gene? There is no gene for balding. It's a very complex interaction.

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

Do people really still think there is a balding gene? There is no gene for balding. It's a very complex interaction.

are you autistic? balding gene is just a phrase you write instead of „various genes, majority probably not even identified yet“

and its 99.9% genetic. the environment factor is almost nonexistant.

 

[Thebaldcel]

are you autistic? balding gene is just a phrase you write instead of „various genes, majority probably not even identified yet“

and its 99.9% genetic. the environment factor is almost nonexistant.

I'm somehow autistic but you use a concrete singular term to describe a plural set of unidentified genes and expect everyone to know that's what you mean. Are you projecting?

You're also assuming that all these genes contributing to Androgenetic Alopecia have the same pathways and mechanisms of action when we don't know anything about them.

And we know about the influence of genetics, but everything has a biochemical pathway once expressed. Genes can be switched on and off, and environmental factors influence this. Saying it's just "genetics" will get us nowhere and it's obvious you haven't read many studies. You seem to be the type to just wait around for answer so you can go away if you have nothing of value to contribute.

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

I'm somehow autistic but you use a concrete singular term to describe a plural set of unidentified genes and expect everyone to know that's what you mean. Are you projecting?

You're also assuming that all these genes contributing to Androgenetic Alopecia have the same pathways and mechanisms of action when we don't know anything about them.

And we know about the influence of genetics, but everything has a biochemical pathway once expressed. Genes can be switched on and off, and environmental factors influence this. Saying it's just "genetics" will get us nowhere and it's obvious you haven't read many studies. You seem to be the type to just wait around for answer so you can go away if you have nothing of value to contribute.

not suprised you are autistic as f***.

you can literally foresee someones hairloss by looking at their family history even if they grow up in totally different environments

environment factor is non existant

 

[hairnohair]

about that, wanna know something funny? My brother is a type 1 diabetic and still has zero hairloss, me I'm not diabetic at all but suffer from pretty severe diffuse hairloss

My brother is a type 1 diabetic too but he's still a kid so I don't really know, but as far as I know male pattern baldness is associated with early onset of type 2 diabetes (insulin resistance), not type 1 (where the body doesn't produce insulin).
Both result in elevated blood sugar if untreated but the causes are completely different. One thing I noticed though, one of my brother's friends (10 years old) eats like a pig, sh*t diet and literally only drinks sugary drinks and I noticed his hair is extremely thin to be a kid, in the exact NW5 area, especially at the crown, last time I saw him I could see the scalp and his hair was at least 2cms long.

not suprised you are autistic as f***.

you can literally foresee someones hairloss by looking at their family history even if they grow up in totally different environments

environment factor is non existant

There are many monozygote twins where one is bald and the other has a full head of hair. Gene expression is everything, and having the same lifestile might not lead to the same gene expression in different people. What's with all the hostility though?
Your regimen says you're desperate and yet when someone comes up with a theory/reasoning you get mad. It's pretty evident that researchers don't give a sh*t about our condition, and until we find the reason for hair loss every treatment will just be some random *** chemical that kinda grew a couple hair and we still don't know why it did. That's what happened with Finasteride, same thing with Minoxidil.

Bald/balding men have a lower sperm count, higher predisposition to prostate cancer, diabetes and cardiovascular disease, baldness is just the body warning you that something's wrong, and we have to know what. Hair loss has never been so common in young men, there are 15 year olds posting on here with receding temples and thinning hair for f***'s sake.
Truth is we still don't know sh*t about genetics and how the body works. If you're really that desperate start researching, and if something comes to mind, dig deeper, email a doctor and ask for his opinion on the subject. Sadly, most doctors are just as ignorant as the rest of us on this subject. No sh*t, I've heard doctors scolding people for wearing a hat.

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

My brother is a type 1 diabetic too but he's still a kid so I don't really know, but as far as I know male pattern baldness is associated with early onset of type 2 diabetes (insulin resistance), not type 1 (where the body doesn't produce insulin).
Both result in elevated blood sugar if untreated but the causes are completely different. One thing I noticed though, one of my brother's friends (10 years old) eats like a pig, sh*t diet and literally only drinks sugary drinks and I noticed his hair is extremely thin to be a kid, in the exact NW5 area, especially at the crown, last time I saw him I could see the scalp and his hair was at least 2cms long.




There are many monozygote twins where one is bald and the other has a full head of hair. Gene expression is everything, and having the same lifestile might not lead to the same gene expression in different people. What's with all the hostility though?
Your regimen says you're desperate and yet when someone comes up with a theory/reasoning you get mad. It's pretty evident that researchers don't give a sh*t about our condition, and until we find the reason for hair loss every treatment will just be some random *** chemical that kinda grew a couple hair and we still don't know why it did. That's what happened with Finasteride, same thing with Minoxidil.

Bald/balding men have a lower sperm count, higher predisposition to prostate cancer, diabetes and cardiovascular disease, baldness is just the body warning you that something's wrong, and we have to know what. Hair loss has never been so common in young men, there are 15 year olds posting on here with receding temples and thinning hair for f***'s sake.
Truth is we still don't know sh*t about genetics and how the body works. If you're really that desperate start researching, and if something comes to mind, dig deeper, email a doctor and ask for his opinion on the subject. Sadly, most doctors are just as ignorant as the rest of us on this subject. No sh*t, I've heard doctors scolding people for wearing a hat.

good post and you made some valid points

regarding the twins: they grow up in exactly the same environment too

would be interesting to look at twins who get seperated at birth...i have no big hopes though

my suggestion: compare the genes of the monotygote twins who are and who are not balding. there must be a slight difference

 

[hairnohair]

good post and you made some valid points

regarding the twins: they grow up in exactly the same environment too

would be interesting to look at twins who get seperated at birth...i have no big hopes though

my suggestion: compare the genes of the monotygote twins who are and who are not balding. there must be a slight difference

As far as I know, gene expression can be local too (for example, the cells in your hands express different information compared to those in your liver), which explains why you can get cancer somewhere but you don't immediately turn into cancer head to toe.
Some conditions might lead to changes in gene expression in some parts of your body (puberty turns the vellus hair on your face and body to beard in a specific pattern, what and how much you eat gets your body used to a certain diet and so on...).
I guess what I'm saying is that the change in gene expression is caused by something else, and we don't know what it is. Might be poor blood flow, skin tension or other factors. The scalp is close to the brain which is a major glucose and oxigen drain, and on top of your body so I guess that if your circulation is fucked your hair is the first thing to go. I don't know about you but I my hands and feet are literally freezing when it's cold. I tried to breathe less to increase the CO2 and help the circulation since yesterday and for the first time in my life my hands and feet were warm again, and today I woke up without requiring an hour to adjust to the outside temperature which is huge for me. I'll let you know if this affects my hair in any way.

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

As far as I know, gene expression can be local too (for example, the cells in your hands express different information compared to those in your liver), which explains why you can get cancer somewhere but you don't immediately turn into cancer head to toe.
Some conditions might lead to changes in gene expression in some parts of your body (puberty turns the vellus hair on your face and body to beard in a specific pattern, what and how much you eat gets your body used to a certain diet and so on...).
I guess what I'm saying is that the change in gene expression is caused by something else, and we don't know what it is. Might be poor blood flow, skin tension or other factors. The scalp is close to the brain which is a major glucose and oxigen drain, and on top of your body so I guess that if your circulation is fucked your hair is the first thing to go. I don't know about you but I my hands and feet are literally freezing when it's cold. I tried to breathe less to increase the CO2 and help the circulation since yesterday and for the first time in my life my hands and feet were warm again, and today I woke up without requiring an hour to adjust to the outside temperature which is huge for me. I'll let you know if this affects my hair in any way.

one thing i noticed my itch went away when i took vitamin e. vitamin e is known to be good for blood vessels and to increase blood flow

 

[hairnohair]

one thing i noticed my itch went away when i took vitamin e. vitamin e is known to be good for blood vessels and to increase blood flow

Vitamins can't hurt in the right dose, given the average modern diet we are all probably deficient in most of them to some degree. It probably won't cure baldness by itself but vitamin E lowers oxidative stress which is present in male pattern baldness
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5152608/

 

[Thebaldcel]

not suprised you are autistic as f***.

you can literally foresee someones hairloss by looking at their family history even if they grow up in totally different environments

environment factor is non existant

Only thing you can do are personal attacks? I have degrees in science and have been a lifelong athlete so if you want to find something to make yourself feel superior I suggest you try something else.

Environmental factors means anything not inherently genetic. This includes anything that may alter gene expression. If you research a bit you'll see just how complex all the interactions are and how it's not black and white like "having a genetic factor means environmental factor is nonexistent!!!"

I'm having some decent results with my theories so you can remain "just desperate" if you want.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

I'm having some decent results with my theories so you can remain "just desperate" if you want.

So when will you cure our bald heads.