Brain Fog on 0.5 mg finasteride EOD After 2 Weeks

[user394587]

@finornottofin Yeah I read all your previous posts about how you tested your levels. By no means do I think finasteride is "poison" (Look, you had sides, you got off of it, and soon you'll feel your normal self again), but I am shocked how docs seem to prescribe it at the drop of a hat given all the circumstances. And no I'm not just talking about PFS, I'm talking about what this medication actually does. It slashes your DHT by a pretty significant amount. This isn't something that's a "good thing", any level headed doctor will tell you that. Nobody WANTS to take finasteride. But they are basically forced to if they want to keep their hair. I feel these docs should do what you did and at least do a baseline blood test to reveal where the guy is as T/Free T/DHT wise before starting. For all the obvious reasons.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I've been fearful of finasteride for the last 13+ years since I first discovered hairloss. Recently I finally reached the point of almost no return where it's basically finasteride or bust(multiple hair transplant's). My derm prescribed me finasteride like he was giving out candy. Said all the usual stuff about how he never hears of side effects, maybe one guy with less ejaculate in all his years. I picked up the pills and they're sitting on my kitchen table at the moment. I still don't know what to do. Thinking of getting baseline bloodwork first.

It's unfortunate that after 25 years men with Androgenetic Alopecia are still left with the same decision; take finasteride or go bald. You'd think that after all of the time between when finasteride was FDA approved for hairloss and now, we'd at least have an alternative with less of a systemic drug burden, but here we are.

This probably won't do much to influence your decision, but just something to note. DHT is a predominately a paracrine hormone, meaning that it is produced in the tissues and remains there where it exerts its effects. The DHT circulating in the blood is thought to play negligible roles in the body, if at all. Measuring serum DHT is not likely to tell you anything about whether or not you will experience side effects on finasteride.

 

[SD1984]

It's unfortunate that after 25 years men with Androgenetic Alopecia are still left with the same decision; take finasteride or go bald. You'd think that after all of the time between when finasteride was FDA approved for hairloss and now, we'd at least have an alternative with less of a systemic drug burden, but here we are.

This probably won't do much to influence your decision, but just something to note. DHT is a predominately a paracrine hormone, meaning that it is produced in the tissues and remains there where it exerts its effects. The DHT circulating in the blood is thought to play negligible roles in the body, if at all. Measuring serum DHT is not likely to tell you anything about whether or not you will experience side effects on finasteride.

I agree completely. 25 years and scientists perhaps the best they've ever been and all we still have is this controversial pill. Thanks for the info too, but are you really certain about this? I always sort of thougth that DHT is the main hormone responsible for all things making us, well, MEN. What about measuring T levels?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's unfortunate that after 25 years men with Androgenetic Alopecia are still left with the same decision; take finasteride or go bald. You'd think that after all of the time between when finasteride was FDA approved for hairloss and now, we'd at least have an alternative with less of a systemic drug burden, but here we are.

This probably won't do much to influence your decision, but just something to note. DHT is a predominately a paracrine hormone, meaning that it is produced in the tissues and remains there where it exerts its effects. The DHT circulating in the blood is thought to play negligible roles in the body, if at all. Measuring serum DHT is not likely to tell you anything about whether or not you will experience side effects on finasteride.

I am not sure why any companies would want to be targets for you guys to snipe at the way that you do with Merck but it's the same old whining: "why no meds for us, wah!"

male pattern baldness is always and everywhere a hormonal phenomenon. Hence, we tend to use meds that affect our hormonal structures of course. Perhaps, the anything but finasteride people should consider, honestly, giving up so that the rest of us can try to help people who want help with hair loss. There's no reward in life without risk.

 

[user394587]

Thanks, but are you really certain about this? What about measuring T levels?

Measuring T levels will give you an indication, because the question you are trying to answer when doing bloodwork is whether or not you are producing enough testosterone to compensate for the elimination of DHT in the tissues where it exerts its effect. You'd generally want to rule out hypogonadism or high E2 before taking finasteride.

DHT is an important hormone, but in order for you to have a meaningful measurement you would need to measure its amount in the tissue itself. This really isn't something that can be done, or rather, not something you would ever want to have done (IE, a biopsy of penile tissue).

You can still measure serum DHT in bloodwork, it's just not going to tell you much with regards to side effects. I would still probably get it measured just so you have a baseline of what it was prior to finasteride usage.

Where measuring serum DHT plays a part is if you're testing whether or not a medication has systemic effects. IE, we know that finasteride reduces serum DHT by around 68%. If there was a topical 5AR inhibitor that did not go systemic, such as what is being postulated with topical dutasteride, you would not see a reduction in serum DHT from baseline.

I made a post about my opinion of what I would look for in bloodwork here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...before-taking-finasteride.132380/post-1970712

 

[user394587]

I am not sure why any companies would want to be targets for you guys to snipe at the way that you do with Merck but it's the same old whining: "why no meds for us, wah!"

male pattern baldness is always and everywhere a hormonal phenomenon. Hence, we tend to use meds that affect our hormonal structures of course. Perhaps, the anything but finasteride people should consider, honestly, giving up so that the rest of us can try to help people who want help with hair loss. There's no reward in life without risk.

For what it's worth, I have no personal vendetta against finasteride. I've been trialing it lately myself.

Where we are right now decades after its approval, it's still the only medication that's proven to arrest the balding process in most men.

I just think that systemically inhibiting DHT in every tissue where it's produced is akin to killing a squirrel with a bazooka, because it's only the hair follicle itself where DHT levels actually matter with regards to miniaturization. Just highlighting that.

 

[finornottofin]

@finornottofin Yeah I read all your previous posts about how you tested your levels. By no means do I think finasteride is "poison" (Look, you had sides, you got off of it, and soon you'll feel your normal self again), but I am shocked how docs seem to prescribe it at the drop of a hat given all the circumstances. And no I'm not just talking about PFS, I'm talking about what this medication actually does. It slashes your DHT by a pretty significant amount. This isn't something that's a "good thing", any level headed doctor will tell you that. Nobody WANTS to take finasteride. But they are basically forced to if they want to keep their hair. I feel these docs should do what you did and at least do a baseline blood test to reveal where the guy is as T/Free T/DHT wise before starting. For all the obvious reasons.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. I've been fearful of finasteride for the last 13+ years since I first discovered hairloss. Recently I finally reached the point of almost no return where it's basically finasteride or bust(multiple hair transplant's). My derm prescribed me finasteride like he was giving out candy. Said all the usual stuff about how he never hears of side effects, maybe one guy with less ejaculate in all his years. I picked up the pills and they're sitting on my kitchen table at the moment. I still don't know what to do. Thinking of getting baseline bloodwork first.

Honestly if you've been fearful about it for 13+ years you are 100% going to get real if not fake sides. It seems you are at least 30 years old since you've been considering finasteride for 13+ years. Now a risk analysis on weather you should take finasteride would include the target bald age. If that for you is never going bald or going bald 10+ years later, 5AR inhibition is likely necessary. If you wanna reach an age like 35 or 40 w.o balding I feel other options could get you there as your hair loss does not seem aggressive since you have been cotnemplating finasteride for 13 years.

I wanted to have hair for 15 more years so a 5ar inhibitor was very necessary. My hope was that if it works out in 5 -10 years something better would come out and I could drop it. Now if the weaker treatments don't work for me I'll just accept and move on, there is only so much risk that I'm personally willing to take but everyone is different though and has different priorities.

 

[SD1984]

Honestly if you've been fearful about it for 13+ years you are 100% going to get real if not fake sides. It seems you are at least 30 years old since you've been considering finasteride for 13+ years. Now a risk analysis on weather you should take finasteride would include the target bald age. If that for you is never going bald or going bald 10+ years later, 5AR inhibition is likely necessary. If you wanna reach an age like 35 or 40 w.o balding I feel other options could get you there as your hair loss does not seem aggressive since you have been cotnemplating finasteride for 13 years.

I wanted to have hair for 15 more years so a 5ar inhibitor was very necessary. My hope was that if it works out in 5 -10 years something better would come out and I could drop it. Now if the weaker treatments don't work for me I'll just accept and move on, there is only so much risk that I'm personally willing to take but everyone is different though and has different priorities.

Thanks for your reply. I am 36 years old and it's definitely been a difficult journey, but one that wasn't so bad for a good portion of time. It has only been over the last year or two that i've re-emerged so to speak, into the hair loss community again, as my hair has finally reached that close to point of no return status where fibers and hair spray are almost not doing the job anymore. It's sad, and a shame. I guess in a perfect world I had hoped I could make it to my 40's, at least, with decent hair.

While yes I may be "fearful" of finasteride, I don't want you to get the wrong idea also. I'm not "terrified" at the thought of popping the pills. I guess a better way to put it is "concerned". There is no doubt, no matter what anyone tells me, that there is some rather significant controvery surrounding this drug. I used to doubt it, but all that changed in 2012 when Merck added everything possible to their label, including flat out saying that sexual side effects may persist even after discontinuation of use. WOW, I thought. But while I do have some general anxiety by no means am I shaking in my boots everyday nor have I ever been on any anxiety meds. I have researched the drug well. I do beleive I will at least TRY Finasteride and see how it goes. Somethign tells me I'm not going to be back here in a few months complaining of "permanent ED" or anything like that. So don't worry about me in that regard.

I guess i'm moreso just upset that I have to take a medication like this than anything else. It's certainly not Tylenol thats for sure. Just don't like the idea of tampering with my hormones and slashing 70% of what's really a pretty important thing in your body (DHT). But at the same time, hair is crucial to me as well. I'm one of the last types of guys on earth that can pull of the bald look.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

For what it's worth, I have no personal vendetta against finasteride. I've been trialing it lately myself.

Where we are right now decades after its approval, it's still the only medication that's proven to arrest the balding process in most men.

I just think that systemically inhibiting DHT in every tissue where it's produced is akin to killing a squirrel with a bazooka, because it's only the hair follicle itself where DHT levels actually matter with regards to miniaturization. Just highlighting that.

Cool. I was sort of referencing that because first min came out in around 1986 and then a few years later finasteride so that seemed like a really productive ten years. I think the problem is that most of what has been worked on since the millennium just hasn't panned out. Pretty much all of the experimental meds are too weak compared to finasteride/min and the photos are nowhere close to min/finasteride progress.

 

[SD1984]

Cool. I was sort of referencing that because first min came out in around 1986 and then a few years later finasteride so that seemed like a really productive ten years. I think the problem is that most of what has been worked on since the millennium just hasn't panned out. Pretty much all of the experimental meds are too weak compared to finasteride/min and the photos are nowhere close to min/finasteride progress.

Nobody is doubting a lot of research has been and is still being done, but yeah, nothing has ever panned out in 25 years. Still kind of shocking. But I suppose regrowing hair is much more difficult of a thing than we all realize. Plenty of things out there that are worse with nothing at all. Look at Tinnitus for example (something I deal with). Horrific condition that affects millions, basically zero cure or treatment ever.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Nobody is doubting a lot of research has been and is still being done, but yeah, nothing has ever panned out in 25 years. Still kind of shocking. But I suppose regrowing hair is much more difficult of a thing than we all realize. Plenty of things out there that are worse with nothing at all. Look at Tinnitus for example (something I deal with). Horrific condition that affects millions, basically zero cure or treatment ever.

Nobody wants to hear this and I have no data but I think the fact that whites/Semites have a huge amount of beard growth compared to other races is part of this and that seems to be hard-wired into caucasians so altering it is difficult. The second thing is that baldness appears to be similar to to what occurs in many mammals, meaning that after puberty, there is often a differentiation in look between male and female animals. Going bald might just be the white equivalent of growing antlers or like some of the simian male animals who also have something similar to baldness but with much longer "non-terminal" hairs.

 

[finornottofin]

Nobody wants to hear this and I have no data but I think the fact that whites/Semites have a huge amount of beard growth compared to other races is part of this and that seems to be hard-wired into caucasians so altering it is difficult. The second thing is that baldness appears to be similar to to what occurs in many mammals, meaning that after puberty, there is often a differentiation in look between male and female animals. Going bald might just be the white equivalent of growing antlers or like some of the simian male animals who also have something similar to baldness but with much longer "non-terminal" hairs.

This also applies to Middle easterners and most south asians I've seen. Able to grow great beards but have similar rates of hair loss to caucasians. I know there are bald east asians but I've yet to see a single one in real life in his early 20s. All the early 20s balding guys I've seen are whites, middle easterners and south asians.

 

[user394587]

This also applies to Middle easterners and most south asians I've seen. Able to grow great beards but have similar rates of hair loss to caucasians. I know there are bald east asians but I've yet to see a single one in real life in his early 20s. All the early 20s balding guys I've seen are whites, middle easterners and south asians.

Anecdotally I've only ever met a single Asian that has had pronounced hair loss prior to age 35.

That's why when it comes to finasteride efficacy I usually point to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21910805/ which examines the effect on Italian men over a long period (10 years).