Brotzu Lotion - Home Made Version (tutorial - Faq)

[FOLLICLOLZ]

Bit off topic, but since this thread is on the scientific formulation level, has anyone tried to DIY the Polichem topical finasteride formulation including the hydroxypropyl chitosan?

Composition and mixing instructions appear in the patent (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110183016) and chitosan appears to be obtainable (https://www.scbt.com/scbt/product/hydroxypropyl-chitosan-84069-44-3). Have also seen someone suggest that hydroxypropyl methylcellulose may offer potential as an alternative film forming agent and that is easily obtainable on amazon.

Wondering if @CureOrDeath or anyone else has thoughts on that.

 

[whatevr]

Guys I think the only real problem here is where to buy S-Equol at a good price, which is different from other Equol forms, S-Equol is proven to bind DHT, not other forms.
And It's f*****g expensive, I've just been quoted 11k by a Chinese factory for one gram, so no way that sh*t on Alibaba is legit, and I'm guessing that's why Fida is taking so long, they are looking for an much cheaper S-Equol alternative.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and 1000 times wrong. Can you people do some basic research before you spread misinformation around these forums?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032666/

"As shown in Figure Figure2,2, using 14C5α-DHT as the tracer in the presence of 3.0 nM (or approximately 865 pg/ml) of cold DHT (in all samples, representing a high-normal level of circulating 5α-DHT in men) varying concentrations of equol (70% R-equol and 30% S-equol mixture) from 0 to 2,000 nM yielded the binding curve displayed in this Figure."

That's the binding of a 70-30 mix of R-Equol and S-Equol. Nowhere does the article state that R-Equol does not bind to DHT.

"Furthermore, equol (i.e., the R- and/or S-isomer) can act as an anti-androgen [7]"




The reason you were quoted that much is because they would have to custom-separate the R isomer from the S isomer just for you - the majority of the producers make racemic equol.
Once @IdealForehead tests the Alibaba supplier then we will see if "the sh*t from Alibaba" is legit. Racemic equol is cheap because it is not complex to make, not because it's fake. The additional separation process is what makes S-Equol expensive.

 

[Arrade]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and 1000 times wrong. Can you people do some basic research before you spread misinformation around these forums?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032666/

"As shown in Figure Figure2,2, using 14C5α-DHT as the tracer in the presence of 3.0 nM (or approximately 865 pg/ml) of cold DHT (in all samples, representing a high-normal level of circulating 5α-DHT in men) varying concentrations of equol (70% R-equol and 30% S-equol mixture) from 0 to 2,000 nM yielded the binding curve displayed in this Figure."

View attachment 85992

That's the binding of a 70-30 mix of R-Equol and S-Equol. Nowhere does the article state that R-Equol does not bind to DHT.

"Furthermore, equol (i.e., the R- and/or S-isomer) can act as an anti-androgen [7]"




The reason you were quoted that much is because they would have to custom-separate the R isomer from the S isomer just for you - the majority of the producers make racemic equol.
Once @IdealForehead tests the Alibaba supplier then we will see if "the sh*t from Alibaba" is legit. Racemic equol is cheap because it is not complex to make, not because it's fake. The additional separation process is what makes S-Equol expensive.

Yes the other equols bind to DHT but S-equol is the only one that doesn't remove the 5-AR enzyme and has no effect on endogenous hormones. You're risking mental/physical sides with R-equol

 

[FCKW36]

That means we can buy the cheaper R S equol one.

 

[whatevr]

Yes the other equols bind to DHT but S-equol is the only one that doesn't remove the 5-AR enzyme and has no effect on endogenous hormones. You're risking mental/physical sides with R-equol

We don't even know how much of the stuff will go systemic. Nobody even made a proper topical of ANY equol yet and posted about it. Let's see how it behaves in practice first. If what I bought is legit, I'll be the first to tell you about it. I get sides from everything, so you will know immediately if it's bad or not.

 

[Arrade]

We don't even know how much of the stuff will go systemic. Nobody even made a proper topical of ANY equol yet and posted about it. Let's see how it behaves in practice first. If what I bought is legit, I'll be the first to tell you about it. I get sides from everything, so you will know immediately if it's bad or not.

That means we can buy the cheaper R S equol one.

Yes, I have no problem with experimenting with racemic equol. We can make the first batch of alternative lotion with racemic just to check it out.
What I'm saying is on paper it reduces the 5-AR enzyme like finasteride. We don't know how it'll play out yet, but If I had to hypothesize I'd still say we want S-equol for no side effects. That's the dream.

 

[whatevr]

Yes, I have no problem with experimenting with racemic equol. We can make the first batch of alternative lotion with racemic just to check it out.
What I'm saying is on paper it reduces the 5-AR enzyme like finasteride. We don't know how it'll play out yet, but If I had to hypothesize I'd still say we want S-equol for no side effects. That's the dream.

On paper, tempol and baicalin are amazing anti-androgens which nuke AR as good as flutamide.
In real life, they do f***-all.

 

[Arrade]

On paper, tempol and baicalin are amazing anti-androgens which nuke AR as good as flutamide.
In real life, they do f***-all.

I think that’s why I tagged you in the thread, I knew you were experimenting.
I mean 7mg in liposomes might have no systemic effects anyway

 

[CureOrDeath]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and 1000 times wrong. Can you people do some basic research before you spread misinformation around these forums?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3032666/

"As shown in Figure Figure2,2, using 14C5α-DHT as the tracer in the presence of 3.0 nM (or approximately 865 pg/ml) of cold DHT (in all samples, representing a high-normal level of circulating 5α-DHT in men) varying concentrations of equol (70% R-equol and 30% S-equol mixture) from 0 to 2,000 nM yielded the binding curve displayed in this Figure."

View attachment 85992

That's the binding of a 70-30 mix of R-Equol and S-Equol. Nowhere does the article state that R-Equol does not bind to DHT.

"Furthermore, equol (i.e., the R- and/or S-isomer) can act as an anti-androgen [7]"




The reason you were quoted that much is because they would have to custom-separate the R isomer from the S isomer just for you - the majority of the producers make racemic equol.
Once @IdealForehead tests the Alibaba supplier then we will see if "the sh*t from Alibaba" is legit. Racemic equol is cheap because it is not complex to make, not because it's fake. The additional separation process is what makes S-Equol expensive.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Equol#section=Top

"S-equol is the biologically active enantiomer while R-equol is essentially inactive and has a weak affinity for alpha-ER."

 

[Ollie]

@CureOrDeath using those ingredients on the first page, how much lotion does it create ?

Are you planning to complete making it yourself soon ?

 

[CureOrDeath]

@CureOrDeath using those ingredients on the first page, how much lotion does it create ?

Are you planning to complete making it yourself soon ?

It's written in step 9 (35ml), yes I'm thinking what to improve, any advice?

 

[Mr.Sprinkles79]

Yes, I have no problem with experimenting with racemic equol. We can make the first batch of alternative lotion with racemic just to check it out.
What I'm saying is on paper it reduces the 5-AR enzyme like finasteride. We don't know how it'll play out yet, but If I had to hypothesize I'd still say we want S-equol for no side effects. That's the dream.

Lets get a few more price quotes first.

 

[Xander94]

It's written in step 9 (35ml), yes I'm thinking what to improve, any advice?

U gonna use s or r equol? Also will u ship this sh*t? Where do u live

 

[Ollie]

It's written in step 9 (35ml), yes I'm thinking what to improve, any advice?

Looks good to me man. Thanks for doing this.

I suppose if anyone is planning on doing this and is particularly confident on what they're doing they could perhaps record each step, and put it on youtube (perhaps not labeled anything though to avoid being linked with the lotion) then cureordeath can add the link to the first page.

Also once we've finished the process... what is the likelihood that something has gone wrong and we've ended up with something that does not at all resemble an effective product ?

 

[whatevr]

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Equol#section=Top

"S-equol is the biologically active enantiomer while R-equol is essentially inactive and has a weak affinity for alpha-ER."

(Isoflavones: Chemistry, Analysis, Function and Effects)

R- and S-equol induce ER transactivation in an opposite fashion according to the cellular context. R-equol and S-equol are more potent in inducing ERα in an AF-2 and AF-1 permissive cell line, respectively. Involvement of ERα transactivation functions (AF-1 and AF-2) in these effects has been examined. Both AF-1 and AF-2 are involved in racemic equol, R-equol and S-equol induced ERα transcriptional activity. These results could be of interest to find a specific ligand modulating ER transactivation and could contribute to explaining the diversity of equol actions in vivo.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22254026)

And so on and so forth. I'm not interested in having pubmed slapfights with you.It is ER-b that is the important one for hair, and higher binding to ER-b is the only theoretical advantage S-Equol has in regards to hair (not talking about safety). In practice, R-Equol is the more effective one when it comes to reducing prostate size, it's quite likely that the same will prove for hair as well. Your research is lacking on this subject matter. Look at @IdealForehead 's post on equol: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-and-the-primary-ingredient-in-brotzu.113209/

 

[Arrade]

.... So who’s making the lotion

 

[CureOrDeath]

View attachment 85994

View attachment 85995
View attachment 85996
(Isoflavones: Chemistry, Analysis, Function and Effects)

R- and S-equol induce ER transactivation in an opposite fashion according to the cellular context. R-equol and S-equol are more potent in inducing ERα in an AF-2 and AF-1 permissive cell line, respectively. Involvement of ERα transactivation functions (AF-1 and AF-2) in these effects has been examined. Both AF-1 and AF-2 are involved in racemic equol, R-equol and S-equol induced ERα transcriptional activity. These results could be of interest to find a specific ligand modulating ER transactivation and could contribute to explaining the diversity of equol actions in vivo.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22254026)

And so on and so forth. I'm not interested in having pubmed slapfights with you.It is ER-b that is the important one for hair, and higher binding to ER-b is the only theoretical advantage S-Equol has in regards to hair (not talking about safety). In practice, R-Equol is the more effective one when it comes to reducing prostate size, it's quite likely that the same will prove for hair as well. Your research is lacking on this subject matter. Look at @IdealForehead 's post on equol: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-and-the-primary-ingredient-in-brotzu.113209/

Me too, better to do something productive, that was my source and that's it.
I Hope so since S-Equol is so expensive, however I'm gonna try both racemic and S-Equol to see if there's some difference whatsoever.
Missed that thread, I'm adding it to the faq.

 

[Dangman]

one question i have, is something like that shippable inside the eu?

 

[Arrade]

@FOLLICLOLZ wussup

 

[FOLLICLOLZ]

@FOLLICLOLZ wussup

Sittin' here waiting for someone to make this lotion.