Buzzfeed's Feature on Men's Hair Loss

[Afro_Vacancy]

I assume that by predictability, when you say it, is mostly relating to the outcome of approaching women with positive reinforcement from not being rejected.

If so, i find it scary that there are people out there who think they can know, understand, or predict the actions of a woman



Bringing up someone's IQ is an attempt to undermine their argument, which is not the most polite way of going about it.

In any case, i know cause and effect; positive reinforcement does wonders for confidence as it would for salivating if you are Pavlov's dogs. However, consider that people's looks usually degrade over time and their confidence level does not necessarily adapt with it. A handsome (let's say a 8-9) NW1 at 20 can be a mere 5-6 by 30 if we are going just by looks yet the high confidence level can be so engrained in him that it doesn't adapt to his new (lesser) looks. In that scenario, is the higher confidence level hurting or helping?

Even if confidence is a product of predictability, predictability (or perhaps healthy delusion) influences action, which in turn can affect success ratio. Basically the more you play the more you are likely to succeed.

In this sense, confidence does in fact help, regardless of whether the confidence is justified or not.

I don't agree.

I'm 32 right now. I've known a number of men since they were ~20 or even earlier.

Some of them have more confidence now, some have less confidence, some have better looks, some have lesser looks. Keep in mind though men stop growing taller at 17 or so, they keep growing more muscle through to age 23 or so, and maybe later if they train. They grow more facial hair too. Lots of men are better looking at 30 than at 20, it varies.

I totally don't buy your canonical example of a man being a 10/10 at age 20, a 5/10 on age 30, and having the same confidence. That might be true here and there, as a rare exception, within a landscape of possibilities and outcomes.

I hold women in high regard -- I think that most of them are very, very effective at evaluating men. There has been ~1.3 billion years of sexual evolution on Earth, and the past 25,000 years of human evolution has largely been driven by sex (Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape, 1967). Sexual selection is very tightly built in neurological circuitry. If a man has a completely deluded sense of self-worth, I believe that women are going to see through that fairly quickly.

I honestly think it's nearly as simple as a credit card. If I go to the shop and buy $70 worth of groceries I am confident that my credit card will be accepted. My high confidence here is an effect, not a cause. Though you might be pedantic and say that it is because of that confidence that I'm willing to buy fancy cheese, meat, and vegetables.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

true or false:
Will a handsome man (rank him a 10/10) with low self esteem/confidence going to do worse with the ladies than a handsome man (10/10) who has confidence?

If true, then confidence matters, regardless of how incremental an advantage - lets move on to the next topic gentlemen.

It's a false comparison.

Why does he have low confidence if he's a 10/10?

It might mean he sucks in either ways. Maybe he has a learning disability, or he's in jail, or he smells bad, or he's poor.

Or maybe he hangs out in an environment where his looks don't go as far.

For example, female models are very insecure about their looks, because they're surrounded by other beautiful women. Doesn't mean they have a lower rating in general, but in their own environment, their looks bring less value.

If a contestant on the Bachelor fits into a size 2, it doesn't bring her any advantage, it doesn't make her more confident, all of the other women on site do as well.

 

[Rudiger]

You don't know if these guys are pulling women. You want to think it's the case.

"You didn't SEE them have sex so it never happened!!11"

Again: assuming your friend is actually a *good* cage fighter: He probably has better speed, hand-eye coordination, aggression, body rhythm, reaction time, and so on. Women notice these things.

Why do you think the dance floor is a human mating ritual?

Do you actually not understand this? Holy ****.

You just made the stupidest, most laughable point ever and then act as if it's common sense.

Yeah women are getting moist over reaction time and hand-eye coordination, they notice these things on a chubby bald guy body popping to Usher.

You will never believe that a guy who is not 'stereotypically good looking' can do well with women based on his behaviour because you've never had the 'balls' to try.

It's a very good point, Fred repeatedly says he never gets rejected because he's "not stupid enough" to try with women who aren't blatantly interested in him, or ones on a little app on his phone.

This works against his own point of whether confidence makes a difference in approaching women, I mean how the hell would he know? He doesn't have a clue whether being "on" or not works, because he never takes the risks. He doesn't realise the difference that making a disinterested woman laugh straight away can make, as opposed to mumbling out some awkward corny line which gives her the big opportunity to get the **** away.

Now I'm not much different in that I would rarely put myself out there unless a girl has at least been looking at me, I still take that risk more than Fred though, you have to sometimes. I am very skeptical about PUA techniques but I believe the basics of PUA as in talking to women and knowing how to act is very important, and 90% of guys will get nowhere without these basics, many naturally have them and then there are many that still need to learn, as in, right now they're out there getting nowhere.

Again, 0 difference, no influence at all.

Doing something is not confidence by the way.

So don't say the not confident guy wouldn't even dare to approach.

Of course nothing happens if he doesn't do anything.

Why can't he say that? It's completely true, the question is "Who does better with the ladies" a guy who knows he's good looking and most women will fawn at his approach, or a guy who has no self-belief and won't dare talk to women?

From there, even if we go by your rules and say the un-confident one HAS to approach, will he flirt and ask her out? For her number? Sex? No, he won't get to any of those stages. And you've said bull**** before like if a woman likes a guy she'll drag him to the toilets, well this is almost always not true, even if a woman likes a guy he still has to do something to initiate sex, don't use a rare example as the norm.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I did know a 9/10 woman who had low self esteem in her early 20s.

She didn't realize she was a 9/10. She didn't go out much. She was very focused on academics.

By her mid 20s, she realized it and her confidence had gone up.

Confidence was just a lagging indicator.

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"You didn't SEE them have sex so it never happened!!11"



You just made the stupidest, most laughable point ever and then act as if it's common sense.

Yeah women are getting moist over reaction time and hand-eye coordination, they notice these things on a chubby bald guy body popping to Usher.

The chubby bald guy probably doesn't have good movement.

You should read up on intro evolutionary psychology. You'll quickly figure out why hand-eye coordination and body rhythm might matter. It means the ability to kill foes, to defend the land, or to successfully hunt meat. It's as significant as strength in that regard, truly.

Why do you think the popular male kids are into sports rather than tug of war? Why is the dance floor a human mating festival?

 

[Saurabhaj]

Dude..do u believe this .

India's national security advisor Duggal is short man...so short...
BTW not bald..
Lived in Pakistan as a intelligence person for 30 years and then came back..
Now as a NSA chief...

He mindfucccd the entire intelligence system of that country ..


United States spends billions and billions of US dollars fooling America that the carry intelligence across the world ...


They were unable to crack even Atom Bomb(nuclear Bomb explosion Test) in India...before news on national channel.
The person heading was short,bald also...


This is alpha..pure Alpha.


Being Alpha is having thousands and hundred of cars,securities,staff surrounding you...for you...

Alpha is not fvcng every new single girl everyday. And fighting everyday for life just to fulfil your stomach..

I know many people here that are short,bald but are so fucccng alpha that they earn,are successfull and have more than every single posts posted on this site...

 

[hellouser]

true or false:
Will a handsome man (rank him a 10/10) with low self esteem/confidence do worse with the ladies than a handsome man (10/10) who has confidence?

If true, then confidence matters, regardless of how incremental an advantage - lets move on to the next topic gentlemen.

I've seen it happen actually. And here's how it goes;

A friend of mine that I worked with had ZERO 'game'. This guy was completely oblivious around women. However, he was ripped like hell and could easily pose for Hollister/Abercrombie. All the girls were pissing themselves around him, he was very, VERY attractive.

But what about picking up women you ask? Well, IT DOESNT MATTER. They were all over him. So much so, he didn't even need to try; I remember one time he sat down at the mall's cafeteria all by himself and had a girl sit right next to him and tried to pick HIM up on her own.

Confidence when you're a 10? It aint needed. But his success without even attempting to try would give him all the 'confidence' he'd ever need because he KNOWS he's NOT LIKELY TO FAIL.

 

[jd_uk]

Again, the scenario was a 10 with confidence and a 10 without confidence - will it make a difference?

Since we are left with just using personal experiences to reach general conclusions i'll jump in and share a personal experience. All my life i've been a handsome guy - i'm not being cocky when i say it, it's true; i would say in my 20's i was easily a 9. How do i know i was handsome? Because i would get hounded by girls - until you have about 20 girls screaming with excitement just because you looked at them, grabbing your *** at every chance, or even causing traffic to come to a screeching halt on multiple occasions as well as flat out being offered sexual favors on a regular basis by just walking down the street without ANY EFFORT, you won't know what being on the upper side of that scale means.

However, i was chronically shy, and still am somewhat - being approached by women non-stop didn't do **** for my confidence; it just reinforced what i already knew - that i was handsome, nothing else. I would typically avoid social interactions because i had low self esteem and low confidence. It wasn't low confidence from being ugly, it was low confidence in general and i wouldn't make a move on girls because i was afraid to get shot down, even though every experience i had to that point indicated otherwise. On a regular basis my friends, who did not have the luxury of having girls try to pick them up, would hook up effortlessly, whereas i didn't. Why? Because of confidence. I knew i was handsome, but lack of confidence still prevented me from chasing who i wanted. You can say what you want regarding confidence as not mattering, but man oh man are you wrong. Until you are being propositioned by women and still finding yourself lacking the confidence to pursue it you don't know jack****. I know this firsthand - you can call me a p*ssy if you want, but social awkwardness, shyness and lack of confidence will seriously impact your behavior, even if you are a perfect 10 NW1. Those of you who think confidence is inherent in good looking people are mistaken, but then again you may never have had the chance to find out for yourselves.

Friday night i saw a guy who used to train at my old gym. He used to kickbox but did a lot of bodybuilding too. This guy is huge (ripped)...probably 19-20 inch arms or something i would guess with next to no body fat and facially he looks like a model. NW0, dark hair, greek looking complexion. We were in a club with loud hip hop music and I watched him for a bit and the girls around him to see how they would react.

He got next to no attention despite being easily the 'best looking' guy in there. Him and his mates stood at the side of the dance floor, beer bottle in hand, arms crossed and looking around. My mate however, all 140lbs, still a reasonable looking guy but skinny was hitting the dance floor, pulling some ridiculous, almost embarassing moves and the girls were definitely noticing more. He also later on has the balls to go up to one of the hottest girls there and chat her up, only to leave when she reciprocated massively and told him if he stayed she would make it worth his while (while seductively licking her lips). He later told me that he got intimidated by how into him she was and he later regretted it massively. Confidence matters. If that model looking guy had actually done something then he surely would have pulled but he stood there nervously waiting to be approached. The best he could do from what i saw was ask some girls if he wanted them to take their photo for them.

I'm convinced that the guys on here who say that confidence and behaviour have no bearing on sexual attraction haven't had normal social experience. Too much of it seems to be based on what they've heard and read on internet forums or experienced from online dating.

 

[Roberto_72]

until you have about 20 girls screaming with excitement just because you looked at them, grabbing your *** at every chance

I have to apologize if I say so, but already telling these experiences in these terms, which are a tad extreme, shows your confidence cannot be _so_ low.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

These guys are stubborn. I know very attractive men (I even have one in my own family) and I've witnessed the same.

You have no idea how easy these guys have it, they don't need to do anything at all, women just fight for their attention.

I don't understand why they're so stubborn.

What is it about the mythology of confidence that people find so appealing?

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Again, the scenario was a 10 with confidence and a 10 without confidence - will it make a difference?

Since we are left with just using personal experiences to reach general conclusions i'll jump in and share a personal experience. All my life i've been a handsome guy - i'm not being cocky when i say it, it's true; i would say in my 20's i was easily a 9. How do i know i was handsome? Because i would get hounded by girls - until you have about 20 girls screaming with excitement just because you looked at them, grabbing your *** at every chance, or even causing traffic to come to a screeching halt on multiple occasions as well as flat out being offered sexual favors on a regular basis by just walking down the street without ANY EFFORT, you won't know what being on the upper side of that scale means.

However, i was chronically shy, and still am somewhat - being approached by women non-stop didn't do **** for my confidence; it just reinforced what i already knew - that i was handsome, nothing else. I would typically avoid social interactions because i had low self esteem and low confidence. It wasn't low confidence from being ugly, it was low confidence in general and i wouldn't make a move on girls because i was afraid to get shot down, even though every experience i had to that point indicated otherwise. On a regular basis my friends, who did not have the luxury of having girls try to pick them up, would hook up effortlessly, whereas i didn't. Why? Because of confidence. I knew i was handsome, but lack of confidence still prevented me from chasing who i wanted. You can say what you want regarding confidence as not mattering, but man oh man are you wrong. Until you are being propositioned by women and still finding yourself lacking the confidence to pursue it you don't know jack****. I know this firsthand - you can call me a p*ssy if you want, but social awkwardness, shyness and lack of confidence will seriously impact your behavior, even if you are a perfect 10 NW1. Those of you who think confidence is inherent in good looking people are mistaken, but then again you may never have had the chance to find out for yourselves.

You had opportunities with women, but you didn't capitalize on them.

That's very different from saying that women are attracted to confidence.

You know that's happened to me too a few times. Not as many times as for you but a few times. Women were interested and I didn't capitalize. I was too socially oblivious and lacked confidence. But you know ... that has nothing to do with confidence inducing female attraction. Men need some social aptitude to capitalize on opportunities. Even if you have a winning lottery ticket, you still need to go to the shop and cash it in.

But that's not the discussion we usually have on this forum. Don't shift the goalposts. We assume most men here are smart enough to cash in a winning lottery ticket if they have it. The main discussion here is what constitutes a winning lottery ticket.

You have people like jd_Uk, for example, who don't understand that many women are going to be attracted to good cage fighters. That has nothing to do with whether or not the cage fighter can cash in on the opportunities of women craving him.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

it's very simple - it takes two to tango; of course an ugly man with lots of confidence is unlikely to get the babe, but a handsome man with no confidence is certainly less likely to get the babe than the same handsome man with confidence.

You are debating whether the handsome man has an advantage over the simply confident man, but i am debating whether or not confidence matters at all. I don't know how you can sit there and tell me that all things being equal a confident man doesn't have the advantage, are you kidding me or being purposely dense? Of course he has the advantage. I don't care how small of an advantage - i look at this discussion from a clinical standpoint, and there is no scenario where the confident handsome guy doesn't get the girl from a non-confident handsome guy. If this is the case (and it most definitely is the case), then confidence matters and this discussion is over.

As far as i'm concerned this argument was settled 4 pages ago; if you are still not "convinced" confidence isn't important then there is no reason to continue to discuss this because you will (clearly) never agree.

You've changed the subject of conversation to a different one.

Your point is that a handsome man who never interacts with the outside world and pushes women away and declines all of their advances due to low confidence will not get laid often.

I agree with that irrelevant point.

 

[Saurabhaj]

All my cousins and close one's are extremely good looking...
However none of them them got girl on their own...


Confidence is not from looks..

Confidence is how you expressed yourself to world..

Confidence is the ability and willingness to handle some task which may be difficult..

I knew many many guys...
Some are so shy...

In India...if you calculate how many are shy..

Out of 100 males,50 percent will be shy..
Out of 100 girls,only 10/20 will be shy.

 

[I.D WALKER]

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

sometimes you have to go to extreme scenarios to get to the truth. Just because we've reached the other side of the spectrum doesn't make it irrelevant.

I'm not at the other side of the spectrum. I don't believe that hair or looks are everything.

You may be confusing my posts with Fred's. The views I've expressed in this thread:

1) Attraction, and alpha-ness, both have many components contributing to them, including personality and looks;
2) The effect of male confidence in stimulating attraction from women is small or zero;

 

[blackg]

Thanks for the links.
A good haircut is essential to tackling the bad looks coming from hair loss.

Yes, that is true. A good hair cut and style can do wonders for thinning receding hair.... until you walk outside and get hit by a sudden gust of wind!
Then it's head down and look at the ground time again.
Walk home in shame.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

agree on both points - on point #2, though the male confidence may not increase attraction from female, male confidence does enable the male to more frequently approach the female, thereby increasing the odds of success over a less confident male.

Yes, high male confidence increases a man's odds of capitalizing on his opportunities. He is also likely to meet more women, and thus have a greater odds of finding a match.

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Yes, that is true. A good hair cut and style can do wonders for thinning receding hair.... until you walk outside and get hit by a sudden gust of wind!
Then it's head down and look at the ground time again.
Walk home in shame.

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All women care about looks some of the time.
Some women care about looks all of the time.

A good example of factors such as intelligence, poise, and ability mattering are the internet's love affair for the lawyers Dean Strange and Jerry Buting that played the defense in the excellent Netlix series "Making a Murderer". They became sex symbols during that documentary's 15 minutes of fame:

You can find many other such gifs. If you watch the documentary, they're portrayed as hero figures, they're the center of attention, they are effective at what they do, they're on the side of the good, and they're very, very smart. This contributes to them having been sex symbols. With that said:

1) They would have been even greater sex symbols if they were 10/10 men;
2) Though they're not 10/10 men, they're also not 0/10 men. They're very well groomed and have decent features, probably in the 6 to 8 range. If they were below 5/10, there'd be no such .gifs anywhere on the internet.

 

[Roberto_72]

A good example of factors such as intelligence, poise, and ability mattering are the internet's love affair for the lawyers Dean Strange and Jerry Buting that played the defense in the excellent Netlix series "Making a Murderer". They became sex symbols during that documentary's 15 minutes of fame:.

david, it is funny you would mention Strange and Buting (whom everyone loves of course) because right yesterday I read this humoristic article in the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/dail...led-about-my-opinions-about-making-a-murderer

it says (among totally irrelevant opinions about the case: this is what constitutes the humor):

James Lenk does not pull off bald.
Jerry Buting does pull off balding



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Yes, that is true. A good hair cut and style can do wonders for thinning receding hair.... until you walk outside and get hit by a sudden gust of wind!
Then it's head down and look at the ground time again.
Walk home in shame.

Oh I drive a motorcycle (a Honda). A helmet can do wonders for thinning hair :roll:

 

[ossrey]

If you read the comments on Facebook that come along with the video, there's one guy who goes crazy on all the people who don't seem to understand the issues of baldness (e.g. "oh yeah, if baldness isn't an issue, how many bald guys have you dated?" or "that stuff doesn't cure baldness, it's caused by DHT" etc. etc.). He doesn't stop, and has set the record straight for a ton of people! Made me wonder if it's someone from this forum! Ha ha.

 

[Roberto_72]

But do we all thinning hair men look SO older as this guy in the video does? Because he does look ten years older. Then I must look like 54. Mmh. Interesting.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Another fine example debunking the myth that age and hair loss appear perfectly normal.

 

[Rudiger]

Breaking down that guys look, he's got tufty un-kept hair (+3 years), odd moustache (+2 years), skin ageing especially of the forehead (+2 years) and lab goggles (way more than 2 years).

No really though, I don't quite know why that guy looks so much older than he does, and I thought the same thing watching it, but while baldness definitely adds a few years I think from 24 to 34 is an incredibly extreme jump for most people. Most 24 year old guys who are severely thinning just look unfortunately young to be bald.

But this guy must be going wrong somewhere, I mean, I don't know how easy it is for him to keep it short on top, but at least keep it short at the sides! Schoolboy error.