Can high dose oral estrogen regrow hair?

[CCS]

No, I'm not going to do this, but just thinking of something else.

If a guy was castrated and given high doses of estrogen and got gyno, would his hair regrow, if he was a diffuse NW6? Have there been any studies that would answer that?

I heard female hair loss is reversible. Could it be because of their high estrogen levels?

I'm just wondering if there are any plant chemicals that can bind to the estrogen receptor topically fast, but be broken down before going systemic, or just not go systemic. So we can't use estradiol, but what about other stuff? What exactly does the estrogen receptor do?

 

[CCS]

BTW, women who go bald usually have less estradiol and are old.


here is some estrogen receptor stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen_receptor

http://www.bio.cmu.edu/Courses/BiochemM ... Intro.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... stractPlus

 

[Bryan]

For a very lengthy recent review of the effects of estrogen on hair (both scalp hair and body hair), I recommend the following study: "The Hair Follicle as an Estrogen Target and Source", Ohnemus et al, Endocrine Reviews 27: 677-706, 2006.

 

[CCS]

For a very lengthy recent review of the effects of estrogen on hair (both scalp hair and body hair), I recommend the following study: "The Hair Follicle as an Estrogen Target and Source", Ohnemus et al, Endocrine Reviews 27: 677-706, 2006.

thanks. My school computers might have free access to that journal. We just can't get PubMed.

google found it fast. I just can't get the full article till I go to the library computer.

 

[CCS]

Although 17ß-estradiol (E2) is recognized as a potent hair growth modulator, our knowledge of estrogen function, signaling, and target genes in hair biology is still very limited. Between the two recognized estrogen receptors (ERs), ER{alpha} and ERß, only ER{alpha} had been detected in murine skin. Here we show that ER{alpha}, ERß, and ERß ins are all expressed throughout the murine hair cycle, both at the protein and RNA level, but show distinct expression patterns. We confirm that topical E2 arrests murine pelage hair follicles in telogen and demonstrate that E2 is a potent inducer of premature catagen development. The ER antagonist ICI 182.780 does not induce anagen prematurely but accelerates anagen development and wave spreading in female mice. ERß knockout mice display accelerated catagen development along with an increase in the number of apoptotic hair follicle keratinocytes. This suggests that, contrary to previous concepts, ERß does indeed play a significant role in murine hair growth control: whereas the catagen-promoting properties of E2 are mediated via ER{alpha}, ERß mainly may function as a silencer of ER{alpha} action in hair biology. These findings illustrate the complexity of hair growth modulation by estrogens and suggest that one key to more effective hair growth manipulation with ER ligands lies in the use of selective ER{alpha} or -ß antagonists/agonists. Our study also underscores that the hair cycling response to estrogens offers an ideal model for studying the controls and dynamics of wave propagation in biological systems.
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looks like they control the cycle, but might not be a cure all. I won't know till I get the article though.

 

[CCS]

http://www.farrellmanual.com/educate/estrogen.htm

this looks like it has lots of info

 

[Jojje]

hmm i dont thing u would becoma a very pretty girl CCS :lol:

 

[CCS]

For a very lengthy recent review of the effects of estrogen on hair (both scalp hair and body hair), I recommend the following study: "The Hair Follicle as an Estrogen Target and Source", Ohnemus et al, Endocrine Reviews 27: 677-706, 2006.

I'm reading the full article now. It's long, but I read the intro. It is well known that estrogen reduces body hair growth. Small tests have found it successfully at least maintained hair growth on 80% of men using it. But there are not many studies on it, and mostly just women are given it experimentally. Sudden changes can cause a shed, but higher estrogen levels seem to put more scalp hairs into anagen, the growth phase. I'll read more.


They said the signalling was complex, so I just read the conclusion. It said that estrogen is like a break, that locks the hair cycle into telogen for a while. They were basing it all on body hair models. It was so disturbing that they did not realize a difference between scalp and body hair models, and did most of their animal studies on the backs of mice or looked at human body hair or female face hair. So I still don't know what Estrogen does to scalp hair, though it does help it in high amounts.

Lots of women take high estrogen doses to fight balding. Not sure if they also take finasteride. But they are not followed up on. No professional studies, so no way to know how strong it is. We just know that topical estradiol is bad for men's chest. I'm still looking for a topical that will act like estrogen in the scalp, but not go systemic, or at least upregulate the estrogen receptor there.

 

[purecontrol]

from what I have been reading some estrogens can act as oxidants and others as anti-oxidants. This is where a lot of the confusion has come into play.

I think we will see DIM and anti-oxidant polyphenols that attach themselves to these receptors become more and more popular.

The main concern IMO is to have your body in a pro aerobic state as opposed to an anearobic one, as this is a state of oxidation.

That is the real cause for balding is oxidation, the DHT induces an oxidive state, but as we so so can estrogens, other foreign, ect

All estrogens and androgens are not created equally

 

[abcdefg]

So basically propecia might only work because it raises estrogen and not even from dht like we were lead to believe?
Maybe topicals like revivogen that lower dht topically only dont work well because they dont raise estrogen? I mean who can say for sure that its not estrogen giving us benefits and has nothing to do with dht being lowered which might just be coincidence?
Also propecia lowers dht but raises typically estrogen which has effects in the brain. So people having the cloudy thoughts or any number of sides could all be from higher estrogen. The thing with this stuff is theres endless questions and answers are very time consuming, expensive, and difficult to determine exactly with so many things going on. Its amazing science has even implicated just dht.

 

[Bryan]

Re:

They were basing it all on body hair models. It was so disturbing that they did not realize a difference between scalp and body hair models, and did most of their animal studies on the backs of mice or looked at human body hair or female face hair. So I still don't know what Estrogen does to scalp hair, though it does help it in high amounts.

Well, it IS a little odd that they, too (like Smart and a few others), seemed to jump on the anti-estrogen bandwagon as a result of all those animal experiments, and seemed to simply assume that estrogen would have the same effect on human scalp hair that it has on animal or body hair. But then relatively late in the game, they did their experiment with balding scalp biopsies from two different human donors, and noticed that estrogen had a beneficial effect on scalp hair growth (note how they said they were "surprised" at the results) in those two samples. In their summation at the end of that long paper, they properly list as one of the desired future goals of medical investigation the final clarification, once and for all, of the effect of estrogens on balding human scalp hair.

What makes their slowness to catch on even more puzzling to me is that we'd been discussing the (probable) site-specific effects of estrogen on hairgrowth for YEARS on alt.baldspot! If _we_ assumed that estrogen was probably good for scalp hair, why did it take those doctors and scientists so long to consider that modest possibility?? :roll:

 

[Guest]

Yeah they should listen to us more. If we were posting on the net decades ago, they probably would have discovered finasteride a long time ago rather than discovering it's beneficial properties for hair, purely by accident.

 

[Bryan]

You're a funny guy, hammy!

 

[Guest]

Damn....I wanted you to get irate. :innocent:

 

[liquidfirex]

I really don't think just more estrogen is the answer, or at least it isn't that simple. I think it's the type of estrogen more then anything. I've come across people with VERY low DHT, and very high e2 who has massive diffuse hairloss with miniturization.

 

[Guest]

The cure for balding is simply the difference between males and females in general.

One of the primary differences is hormonal. We've identified DHT as a main player in this. Yes some women suffer from male pattern baldness because both men and women have each others hormones configured in different ways.

All we need to do is find out what goes on in a females scalp and hair follicles, and this will explain why men thin and women take longer to thin.

It could also be blood related, a woman's blood is replaced and refreshed constantly, build up of anything bad is slowly depleted throughout the year. Women tend to age a lot faster after menopause I notice.

Once we find a topical that promotes scalp hormonal activity similar to that of female or nonbalding type. But didn't that people on an Island who had zero baldness also lacked 5AR entirely. Maybe it is just DHT, in which case we simply have more receptors or the hair is more sensitive or our immune systems suck.

 

[paximperia]

If a guy was castrated he would grow as much hair as if he was blocking 100% of DHT in his hair follicles. No testes, no testosterone, no DHT.

 

[purecontrol]

I really don't think just more estrogen is the answer, or at least it isn't that simple. I think it's the type of estrogen more then anything. I've come across people with VERY low DHT, and very high e2 who has massive diffuse hairloss with miniturization.

I agree with you, can you give us some more thoughts, ie your thoughts on the use of DIM ect?

 

[RaginDemon]

I'd rather be a bald man than some half *** transexual with gyno.

 

[Bryan]

I really don't think just more estrogen is the answer, or at least it isn't that simple. I think it's the type of estrogen more then anything. I've come across people with VERY low DHT, and very high e2 who has massive diffuse hairloss with miniturization.

PHOOEY.