Cassiopea Announces Very Positive Phase 2 Twelve Months Results For Breezula

[Pephair]

Results are decent enough for me. I’m adding Winlevi to my arsenal when it releases in a year or so.

 

[soull]

Well, this at least gives you some hair. What would really exciteme is how it would affect the thickness of the miniaturized hair

 

[Iah11]

The data is confusing.

Personally, I have been involved in a clinical trial. The investigators don't really have a way to enforce correct protocol. Just based on how random the dose response was each group, I'd wager that there was a lot of variation between test subjects in terms of adherence. The only way to find out how efficacious this actually is will be phase 3 trials or data post release after it's been tried for multiple years.

 

[Iah11]

Also for any pessimist, I can empathise with why this seems like another false start. I'd advise everyone who doesn't respond well to current treatment option to give up on a magic bullet hair loss treatment. In the same way minoxidil is much more effective when used in conjunction with finasteride, we've got to think of the potential of using future stacks.

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

Tour is over boyos.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

nah. the research group who compared CB to flutamide is unrelated with cassiopeia and they have no interest in makignit look better. they also compared it to cypro and other very potent anti androgens and it's definitely a strong AA. also the cells of the hamster flank should metabolize it anyway.

also not sure if I really agree with the rest of wha you are saying. after 6 months it certainly seemed this way but now, the difference between one na twice a day looks rather insignificant. its weird that 5% saw improvement, 2.5% saw decline once a day saw improvement and twice a day saw decline. its so weird. but maybe the issue is that the initial data for 2.5 and 7.5 % was simply not as accurate. thats the only explanation. certainly, the self assessment did not change

im still extremely disappointed, I though it wa more effective than finasteride by quite a bit like they said

No, it needs to be metabolized by the liver. Cant be converted elsewhere. I didn't know it was a different group though.

seems like CB is too weak. 150mg per day applied topically led to worse hair growth than 1mg of finasteride orally. This really depends on the sample pool though and is not that comparable between studies which is what we are doing.

Overall its nothing to complain about unless this was your main hope

 

[itsjustsimon]

I was hyped about CB. But this now more looks like... meh.

How was this stuff so much better than finasteride after 6 months but now it's like 40% worse? What happened?

 

[Timpson12]

there was definitely a breach in protocol i think. the constant increase in hair count in the 5 and once a day 7.5% protocol group shows that CB does NOT lose efficiency after 6 months and continues to improve hair. but not in the two other groups. so it's not the CB, it's the group.

ont he other hand, they initially compared to baseline and then to vehicle hair count which is very misleading.

the biggest issue I have right now, if you take finasteride and make a 12 month comparison of finasteride vs vehicle you end up with a 27 increase in hair count. this was half as good.
https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(98)70007-6/abstract

very bad results, my hope literally died today


it's 2019 and this si the best we have. and let me tell you all something, every single time there has been major disappointment. we always hear in the news of how great and wonderful science is and how we should praise it, the reality is that human medical research, especially when it comes to hairloss is absolutely pathetic. you think rch-01 won't be just as much of an excuse, just as much of a failure? wake up. if you can't stop your hairloss with finasteride then there is nothing you can do in the next what, 10-15 years at least

Stop repeating what’s been said in the thread.

Also, how do you know there was a breach?

~400 people split across 5 treatment groups. That’s 80 people a group. A few people who don’t adhere won’t impact the results that much. That’s also why they report P value.

 

[NorwoodReaper]

- The results are "change from vehicle TAHC" at 12 months compared to "change from baseline" at 6 months
- This means the results are less comparable
- If anything, the results when compared to baseline at 12 months would have been lower as vehicle patients continued to lost hair.
- This is Cassiopea make the numbers look pretty whilst it's clear efficacy fell from 6 months to 12 months. What's sad is it STILL fell from 6 months to 12 months, even when switching from comparing "to baseline" to comparing to "vehicle results"

- While higher concentrations seem to lead to better results, there isn't THAT much of a difference between 2.5% and 7.5%
- This bodes well for those of us considering using research chemicals/Winlevi (when out) while Breezula is still in development

- I am pretty sure a lot of us here are only here because Finasteride gives us sides
- So considering they have proven very minimal side effects, I still view this as a success and am looking forward to their next steps

- As long as the 12 month results have stabilised and we doesn't see a further drop in efficacy, I think it's quite good

Good analysis. I didn't catch the change of comparison group from baseline to vehicle. Had the comparison group been the same at 6 and 12 months, I would be heartened by the 12-month report, as it appears the differences from 6 to 12 months (including the decline in the 7.5% BID group) could probably be accounted for by random measurement error. That is to say, it would appear that the results were stable from 6 to 12 months. However, as you point out, the comparison group was *not* the same at the two intervals, and assuming that there was substantial hair loss from baseline in the vehicle group, there was almost certainly some significant hair loss from 6 to 12 months in the CB groups.

In the absence of longer duration trials, I'm going to assume that the hair loss in those using CB will likely continue past 12 months. My take, based on the limited summary of results that Cassiopea has released, is that CB is safe but probably not a strong enough topical AA to combat male pattern baldness effectively in the long run. I think it will have more benefit as an adjunct to finasteride or dutasteride (for those who continue to experience hair loss on these meds, albeit slowed hair loss) than as a standalone treatment.

 

[bboy]

Given that a human hair is about 80um wide, can someone explain to me how the TAHW has a between 521.1um and 762.5um change from mean compared to vehicle? I'm assuming they don't mean it's making hair 10 times thicker than normal..

 

[vinnievandall]

maybe you just had mental issues. you still haven't tested it right? then its all your fault, if you don't test it don't complain

Contacted 7 labs here in belgium they dont test medicines that arent aproved so i think allot of people who say they tested it are straight up liars or there are different laws in different countries

 

[orphanfunkhouser]

the data is even worse than you might think it is! after 6 months they compared it against baseline, after 12 months they compared it against vehicle. they might have a sh*t product but they sure as hell know how to market it. don't even want to know what the real hair count data is now but one thing is certain, CB probably stops working much sooner than finasteride. after 6 months hair count decline was significant. 21 above baseline to 14 above VEHICLE so probably like 10 above baseline.

so after 12 months half the hair they gained after 6 months was lost again. it's really disappointing to see this news. just think about it.
and self assessment, they wanted it to be much more favorable than that after 6 months but it was actually less favorable. 49% think they grew hair on placebo after 6 months, 50% after 12 LOL.


finasteride is already not a good drug, many don't respond or lose ground after 5 years. this is a very expensive topical anti androgen that has worse results than finasteride. how can you not be disappointed by this? enlighten me.

oh and buhuhuh no side effects, 96% of people don't get sides on finasteride, if this is their strong selling point then they are done.

plus people like "pigeon" are so neurotic they will get side effects on this asa well. so whats the point. he is already doubting their sides free claim. mental illness

Have sex

 

[JonnyGo]

What a disappointment. On top of that, if everything goes right we have to wait another 3 years. And for those of us actively balding this is really bad news.
Better than nothing I guess..

 

[kiwipilu]

look at the 6 month results. hair count for breezula was 21, now it's 14. so it lost efficiency. whats weird is, in the 2.5 and 7.5 group they lost ground significantly while the 5% and 7.5 once a day continued to get better. it's very weird and I don't have an explanation for this happening. anti androgens are supposed to peak at 12 months not 6 and then get worse fast

ye my bad. ok I see, **** knows why they compare vs baseline and again vehicle. that said ,Some numbers are stil moving in the right direction idd . Maybe we should wait for further details. I don't want to write this off just yet : § At the end of the day if they are so far in trials that's surely because they have something in hand right?

 

[NilesCrane]

Can't take finasteride so I'm excited about this. Will probably be near bald by 2023/2024 tho

 

[barfacan]

I completely missed that. That's quite deceiving. They need to release the change from baseline results.

It's reasonable to compare outcomes between treatment and placebo at endpoint....

the way they did it was a little wooly, however.

People need to chill, these results are all encouraging. Combine it with finasteride if you want. Different angles.

People who were praying for this as a final cure will surely be dissapointed. Lesson learned, kids.

 

[barfacan]

Contacted 7 labs here in belgium they dont test medicines that arent aproved so i think allot of people who say they tested it are straight up liars or there are different laws in different countries

is it possible that countries have different laws? no way.

 

[Timpson12]

It works. Lets be honest - if you could go out and buy this rn, you probably would.

Comparing to placebo seems deceiving which is upsetting - but does it change results that much? probably not.
Remember those 6 month results, TAHC only dropped 0.1% for placebo. Assuming that hair loss continues at roughly this rate, comparing to placebo would only impact results <1%.


I would like to see continued testing but it doesn't seem to be something we will see. We probably will see this in market around 2022, so we can test it for ourselves soon enough.

 

[irishlad8787]

Essentially maintenance and thickening most we could hope for, if 1 year results are maintained forever , we would all be happy. They will gave to answer why there was such a drop off. Doesn't make sense. 2021 release I would reckon. Strange that they only doing 6 month phase3 trial. Fda might not ageee to that.

 

[irishlad8787]

Fda don't like drugs that lose efficacy after 6 months.