Check out these photos

[DoctorHouse]

I wish I were able to say that I didn't pay for it. Lookin' like I may need to chalk this one up to the loss column...

Hopefully not the 2,000 dollars they wanted for it. That would buy alot of Proxiphen which has more of a chance to help than something questionable that is fresh out on the market. I thought I was a "sucker" for buying all these new breakthrough hair loss treatments but I surely would not fall for one that expensive. As far as hairchi, I still use it and it does make the hair stronger and thicker but you have to use it for long time to see results. It may give a cosmetic thickening effect. Chore Boy, did you ever try hairchi foam? I was going to do PRP but after you said that was a waste, I chucked that idea. I am hoping someday you can come up with something groundbreaking. I know you are getting involved with hair grooming products. Hairchi makes for a great mousse that helps thicken the hair cosmetically and at the same time might help with hair maintenance.

 

[CCS]

What's the fuzz all about? The third picture is another guy than the first two pictures and compared to the first picture, the second picture is a whole different lightning and angle. Hairs are a little longer, but still thin.

Nothing there to see iyam.

BTW, what a terrible website

agreed. All three are bald, probably the same guy, with no difference.

 

[chore boy]

Not sure what to say regarding what products I feel are worth spending money on. I could sit here and speculate on what might have been helping in the past or I could approach things logically based on my current understanding of Androgenetic Alopecia. As DoctorHouse stated, I've decided to release a line of grooming products and they will feature ingredients that I feel may be worth investigating if someone were looking to maximize their hair's potential. I'm not claiming my products do anything, let alone cure hairloss. I plan to present research and the proposal of what my ingredients might could hypothetically do, letting folks draw whatever conclusions they wish. Regardless of how excited I am about it, out of respect for this site, I won't be discussing it here anymore.

 

[chore boy]

DIM defnitely seemed to help balance out perceived estrogen spikes... I say perceived because I never had my hormones tested and therefore don't really know for sure what was happening within my body. One thing I will point out is that initially, I could chew Propecia with the best of them. Then, slowly over time, my body seemed to reject it more and more to where recenlty I thought I might be able to tolerate topical finasteride but ended up ditching it fairly quickly due to the sides. Playing with systemic hormone levels - for me at least - is not worth it anymore. I'd be interested in inhibiting 5ar-2 locally at the DP and maybe a little AR play but that's about it for me. I don't know what to say regarding your condition but maybe if anti-androgens are aggravating it, your body might be telling you to chill out like mine did with my self-diagnosed reflex hypo.

 

[chore boy]

I'm cookin' up one hell of theory...

Dare I propose that Androgenetic Alopecia is merely a manifestation of oxidative susceptability syndrome? I read an article where non-balding DPCs went into apoptosis in the presence of androgens but large amounts of androgens were needed. What does mean? To me it means that either there's a factor in place protecting healthy follicles from androgen-induced apoptosis that wasn't able to protect the DPCs in the petri dish, or, there's another mechansim by which apoptosis occurs. Personally, I believe that this androgen-mediated negative feedback is enough to initiate an oxidative sequence where p53 is upregulated, causing premature senescence and apoptosis, explaining the study I read where balding subjects were found to have elevated p53 levels and also have the presence of DNA "repair enzymes" (which may confirm my theory of oxidative damage). I'm not sure if I think we have elevated p53 levels in general... or maybe an anti-oxidant insufficiency?

I'm not at my computer so I will have to post my references later but here's some stuff off the top of my head:

- It's been suggested that oxiative stress may be the real culprit behind metabolic syndrome. p53 appears to be a stronger correlation between Androgenetic Alopecia and metabolic syndrome than insulin sensitivity ever was, in my opinion.

- cyclosporin appears to inhibit p53. This may help explain it's hair growth effects.

- Why do we see a regressive thinning of the hair shaft in male pattern baldness? I've been wondering if maybe... just maybe... it takes a certain number of cells to form a hair shaft of certain thickness? Who knows... maybe as time goes on - and more and more cells succomb to oxidative stress - the number of viable cells diminishes and instead of having "x" amount of cells to create a hair with "y" diameter, we now are left with half of what we originally had, resulting in a hair shaft with half the diameter? Long shot, I know...

Feel free to step in and tell me that I sound retarded. But you heard it here first, folks.... betcha' oxidative stress and p53-induced senescence and apoptosis is more of an enemy than the proverbial boogey man DHT.

 

[dopey]

Chore,

I don't think you're crazy. I 'd love to hear more. Wasn't the theory that capsaicin was good for hair loss because it depletes P53?

 

[chore boy]

Did you guys notice grey hairs before you started balding?

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Excessive oxidation easily results in DNA damage and cell reproduction failures. Oxidative stress is one by-product of a diet of poor nutrition. Considering one of the "treatments" many recommend to slow hair loss is to eat a healthy diet that would naturally lower the effects of oxidative stress on the body if done right, the link isn't far fetched at all. Also a lot of the dietary items that are recommended for having possible beneficial effects on hair health are very effective antioxidants (capsaicin, curcumin, EGCG).

Dietary practices and health outlooks are something passed on by family members so it is easy to draw a connection there too in how oxidative stress effected hair health can be passed down in a family.

I'm sure you can find your own articles with enough searching, but a quick search on hormone's and oxidative stress yielded this study on zebra finches where cell susceptibility to oxidative stress was measured in finches given either implants of flutamide, testosterone or nothing and:

In agreement with the prediction, we found that red blood cell resistance to a free radical attack was the highest in males implanted with flutamide and the lowest in males implanted with testosterone.

Now not only would there be the nurture aspect of learned dietary practices possibly passing down an increase in chance for hair loss in families but also there could easily be a genetic factor for hair's susceptibility to hormone mediated oxidative stress.

Overall as a hypothesis it has a good starting point.

 

[chore boy]

You guys wanna hear something refreshing? Joe Fox gave me my money back for the yogurt... put that sh*t in the bank today, actually. I can't believe it...

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Did you guys notice grey hairs before you started balding?

Yes, my girlfriend would frequently point them out.

congratulations on your refund, I'm actually amazed. Wonder if there was any legal reasoning behind it.

 

[chore boy]

Hell, my theory may even explain why guys' side hair often goes south when it's believed to be largely invulnerable to androgens. What else would be causing thinning in these areas? Well... my theory seems to hold a bit of water and don't let me figure out that a certain number of "ideal/healthy/viable" cells are needed to form a hair shaft of a certain quality... which could be a contender in helping to explain why balding men's side hair seems to be of a lesser "luxuriousness" than his non-balding counterpart.

 

[dopey]

Chore,

Cograts on the refund!

As far as genetics, I lucked out on getting the "no gray" gene from my grandmother. She passed away at 87 with faded brown hair.

In the past few months I've noticed an icrease in the amount. length and quality of hair - all body hair. Oh, and fingernails. I've been at a loss to explain this but settled on the addition of CoQ10 to my supplements.

 

[chore boy]

Thanks.

Got me a little theory on shedding. We all know that shedding seems to occur outside of situations where it's possibly correlating with the start of a new treatment. Therefore, I personally believe that not all shedding is beneficial and suspect it to be hairs in exodus from a growth cycle cancelation at the hands of TGF and/or other catagen-inducing mechanisms. It's been shown that hairs operate in "waves" so to me, it makes sense since shedding seems to come in waves.

 

[chore boy]

Is it known what causes shedding and I'm just in the dark?

 

[chore boy]

Granted this chart is mostly over my head but I think I may have answered my own question as to whether I think we abnormally express p53 or maybe have an antioxidant insufficency. Today, I've been reading up on p16 after I saw that it, like p53, was found to be at elevated levels in Androgenetic Alopecia subjects. p16 leads me to cdk4, which led me to this chart... tell me I haven't been on to something lately!


- you notice how it flows "genetic expression to p53, then it's either Bax and likely apoptosis, or over to cell proliferation via cdk4. The p53 crossroad seems to be where things go south for our hairlines... but genetic expression appears to induce Bax directly and it looks like it's pretty much lights out once you hit Bax.

p16's implicated somehow... again, it's been shown to be elevated in male pattern baldness. Per Wikipedia:

"Increased expression of the p16 gene as organisms age reduces the proliferation of stem cells.[5] This reduction in the division and production of stem cells protects against cancer while increasing the risks associated with cellular senescence"

 

[chore boy]

The plot thickens...



Minoxidil induces hair growth in male pattern baldness and prolongs the anagen phase. All-trans retinoic acid (ATRA) has been reported to act synergistically with minoxidil in vivo: they can enhance more dense hair regrowth than either compound alone. We evaluated the effect of minoxidil combined with ATRA on hair growth in vitro. The effect of co-treatment of minoxidil and ATRA on hair growth was studied in hair follicle organ culture. In cultured human dermal papilla cells (DPCs) and normal human epidermal keratinocytes, the expressions of Erk, Akt, Bcl-2, Bax, P53 and P21 were evaluated by immunoblot analysis. Minoxidil plus ATRA additively promoted hair growth in vitro, compared with minoxidil alone. In addition, minoxidil plus ATRA elevated phosphorylated Erk, phosphorylated Akt and the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax, but decreased the expressions of P53 and P21 more effectively than by minoxidil alone. Our results suggest that minoxidil plus ATRA would additively enhance hair growth by mediating dual functions: 1) the prolongation of cell survival by activating the Erk and Akt signaling pathways, and 2) the prevention of apoptosis of DPCs and epithelial cells by increasing the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax and downregulating the expressions of P53 and P21.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2693596/