Combating loss of libido with dutasteride
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el_duterino
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These Proctor products sound very interestesing.I might try some myself, i am looking at something that promotes VEGF or/and angiogenesis.
Bryan, any thoughts ?
Bryan, any thoughts ?
Wildflower
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mmm,so topical anti-androgen.
i think i'll get some fluridil, see how thatgoes - Eucapil is the brand name right? that's the stuff to put on?
Plus, i read someone good things about copper peptides - that is should have something like Hair Signals from Doctor Proctor, a copper peptide. Would that be important?
i'm thinkg about going with minoxidil+nizoral+fluridil+copper peptide+dutasteride(every five days). Any thoughts? especially regarding libido side effects..
Also, it's three weeks since i last used dutasteride, but libido is still fucked:-(. Thank god for cialis...
i think i'll get some fluridil, see how thatgoes - Eucapil is the brand name right? that's the stuff to put on?
Plus, i read someone good things about copper peptides - that is should have something like Hair Signals from Doctor Proctor, a copper peptide. Would that be important?
i'm thinkg about going with minoxidil+nizoral+fluridil+copper peptide+dutasteride(every five days). Any thoughts? especially regarding libido side effects..
Also, it's three weeks since i last used dutasteride, but libido is still fucked:-(. Thank god for cialis...
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el_duterino said:
Oh, I've made no secret of the fact that I consider them to be probably state-of-the-art in combatting male pattern baldness, using those powerful SODs like PBN and TEMPO/TEMPOL which are exclusively associated with Dr. Proctor. Of course, his products are also pretty expensive, so it's a trade-off.
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Petchsky said:
If I recall correctly, there was a conflict, a bad reaction of some sort, between the minoxidil and one of the other Proxiphen ingredients which he considers to be more important, and he had to lower the amount of minoxidil to solve the problem. He doesn't seem to think that minoxidil is a particularly important part of Proxiphen. It plays second- or third- or fourth-fiddle to things like PBN and TEMPO/TEMPOL and other ingredients!
Wildflower
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Would using Proviron to combat libido loss be stupid?
The stuff is a derivitive of DHT (Mesterolone) so i would assume this would just speed up the hair loss. But its a derivitive of DHT - does that mean it's the same thing and would have the same effect?
In terms of libido I heard it's brilliant.
thoughts.?
The stuff is a derivitive of DHT (Mesterolone) so i would assume this would just speed up the hair loss. But its a derivitive of DHT - does that mean it's the same thing and would have the same effect?
In terms of libido I heard it's brilliant.
thoughts.?
Wildflower
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further research has revealed that DHT is important in preventing the buildup of progesterone.
When you remove DHT your progesterone profile increases.
Progesterone is used as chemical castration for sex-offenders.
So adding proviron or any other test booster will be good in freeing up "free-testosterone" in my body making me hornier but wont do anything about the effect of the progesterone.
maybe proviron will lower progesterone. But then that's using DHT to lower porgesterone and exacerbating hair loss.
When you remove DHT your progesterone profile increases.
Progesterone is used as chemical castration for sex-offenders.
So adding proviron or any other test booster will be good in freeing up "free-testosterone" in my body making me hornier but wont do anything about the effect of the progesterone.
maybe proviron will lower progesterone. But then that's using DHT to lower porgesterone and exacerbating hair loss.
Wildflower
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aiight, he's some info that i cultivated from some illicit drug users forum (they talk in secretiv language). I'm pretty certain as a DHT "derivative" it will have same effect as DHT and exacerbate hair loss.
But, considering Dutas shuts down the conversion of test to dht, intaking an exogenous source of DHT, you can vary it to give you the right cost/effect benefit. Like you can use it alongside dutasteride perchance to top up your sex drive?
This is a way long shot and i'm considering experimenting, but here's the info on proviron (Mesterolone) i found:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I've reported previously on SWIM's disappointing experiences with the much-hyped drugs cabergoline and PT-141 (bremelanotide). Now I want to share some info about a relatively unknown libido-enhancing drug that actually works for SWIM.
The name of the drug is mesterolone, sold as the brand name Proviron.
Mesterolone is an orally active steroid. It is an anabolic steroid, but its anabolic activity is not very strong. So bodybuilders don't typically take this to increase their muscle mass. However, they do often use it to combat gynecomastia, a.k.a., the dreaded "b**ch tits".
It is also sometimes prescribed by doctors to increase sexual desire (libido), and it is for this purpose that SWIM is interested in it. It is probably prescribed for various other medical conditions related to sex hormones as well.
Mesterolone reduces circulating estrogen levels by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen. (So it helps bodybuilders avoid the estrogen side effects produced by other anabolic steroids.)
It also binds to two proteins (sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin) which normally bind to testosterone and render it inactive. As a result, the amount of free testosterone available in the body is effectively increased.
Under the brand name of Proviron, mesterolone comes in 25mg pills. I believe that bodybuilders typically take about 25mg to 50mg per day, i.e., 1 or 2 pills. That is the dosage level that SWIM used for his libido-enhancing experiments with this drug.
Mesterolone is generally considered to have very mild side effects compared to other anabolic steroids when taken at the dosage level mentioned above. However, SWIM can tell you from his experience that it *does* have some of the typical side effects associated with anabolic steroids. (See the report below.)
Note that one bodybuilding site says that, "In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women."
SWIM started off with one 25mg pill for the first week. At first he thought that he could detect an increase in his sex drive, but he wasn't really sure if it was real or placebo. This feeling soon went away after a couple of days, and he just felt normal.
After 1 week he still felt normal, and he started taking 50mg per day. After a few more days he still felt normal, and SWIM became disappointed and more or less wrote it off as being ineffective. However, he decided to keep taking it a little longer because he'd read that the effects take time to build up in your body.
Somewhere around the 2 week mark he started to feel the changes. Mentally, the most noticeable thing was just a significantly increased feeling of general well-being and overall satisfaction with life. Physically, he felt great. The muscles in his body also started to firm up, and the fatty tissue in his breast area went almost completely away. SWIM did not work out during this period, but he's on a workout program now and will continue that on his next trial. He thinks that even though mesterolone is not known as a strong anabolic steroid that it will still lead to some strength gains in the gym.
Ok, but what about sex drive?
Quite simply, sex was always on his mind during this period of mesterolone use. More particularly, he always had a mental image of...well I don't want to get too graphic, but let me just say that he always had sexual imagery in his mind, no matter what he was doing. He could be talking to someone or working or whatever, and it was like he was giving his full concentration to both the task at hand and the mental image in his mind at the same time.
He had quite a lot of sex during this period and was very happy with the effect that mesterolone had on his sex drive.
SWIM sometimes couldn't last as long as usual...he would sometimes just come too soon, whereas he normally never has a problem with control. On the upside, however, SWIM could have sex as many times as he wanted...and he wanted it a lot, a lot more than usual.
his semen volume was lower than usual. I know some people don't get this, but SWIM says that he thinks the physical sensation of the semen coursing out during orgasm is pleasurable, and the more there is, the more pleasurable it is.
There were also some mild physical side effects, most notably some hair-related side effects. There was no visible hair loss, but SWIM noticed that there were more stray hairs on his pillow than usual when he woke up in the morning. Also, he now has more hair on his back, and a slight amount of hair on the underside of his forearms, whereas he had none before. As mentioned, this has been about 3 years ago, so these effects seem to be irreversible.
But, considering Dutas shuts down the conversion of test to dht, intaking an exogenous source of DHT, you can vary it to give you the right cost/effect benefit. Like you can use it alongside dutasteride perchance to top up your sex drive?
This is a way long shot and i'm considering experimenting, but here's the info on proviron (Mesterolone) i found:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, I've reported previously on SWIM's disappointing experiences with the much-hyped drugs cabergoline and PT-141 (bremelanotide). Now I want to share some info about a relatively unknown libido-enhancing drug that actually works for SWIM.
The name of the drug is mesterolone, sold as the brand name Proviron.
Mesterolone is an orally active steroid. It is an anabolic steroid, but its anabolic activity is not very strong. So bodybuilders don't typically take this to increase their muscle mass. However, they do often use it to combat gynecomastia, a.k.a., the dreaded "b**ch tits".
It is also sometimes prescribed by doctors to increase sexual desire (libido), and it is for this purpose that SWIM is interested in it. It is probably prescribed for various other medical conditions related to sex hormones as well.
Mesterolone reduces circulating estrogen levels by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme which converts testosterone to estrogen. (So it helps bodybuilders avoid the estrogen side effects produced by other anabolic steroids.)
It also binds to two proteins (sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin) which normally bind to testosterone and render it inactive. As a result, the amount of free testosterone available in the body is effectively increased.
Under the brand name of Proviron, mesterolone comes in 25mg pills. I believe that bodybuilders typically take about 25mg to 50mg per day, i.e., 1 or 2 pills. That is the dosage level that SWIM used for his libido-enhancing experiments with this drug.
Mesterolone is generally considered to have very mild side effects compared to other anabolic steroids when taken at the dosage level mentioned above. However, SWIM can tell you from his experience that it *does* have some of the typical side effects associated with anabolic steroids. (See the report below.)
Note that one bodybuilding site says that, "In high doses it can cause some virilization symptoms in women."
SWIM started off with one 25mg pill for the first week. At first he thought that he could detect an increase in his sex drive, but he wasn't really sure if it was real or placebo. This feeling soon went away after a couple of days, and he just felt normal.
After 1 week he still felt normal, and he started taking 50mg per day. After a few more days he still felt normal, and SWIM became disappointed and more or less wrote it off as being ineffective. However, he decided to keep taking it a little longer because he'd read that the effects take time to build up in your body.
Somewhere around the 2 week mark he started to feel the changes. Mentally, the most noticeable thing was just a significantly increased feeling of general well-being and overall satisfaction with life. Physically, he felt great. The muscles in his body also started to firm up, and the fatty tissue in his breast area went almost completely away. SWIM did not work out during this period, but he's on a workout program now and will continue that on his next trial. He thinks that even though mesterolone is not known as a strong anabolic steroid that it will still lead to some strength gains in the gym.
Ok, but what about sex drive?
Quite simply, sex was always on his mind during this period of mesterolone use. More particularly, he always had a mental image of...well I don't want to get too graphic, but let me just say that he always had sexual imagery in his mind, no matter what he was doing. He could be talking to someone or working or whatever, and it was like he was giving his full concentration to both the task at hand and the mental image in his mind at the same time.
He had quite a lot of sex during this period and was very happy with the effect that mesterolone had on his sex drive.
SWIM sometimes couldn't last as long as usual...he would sometimes just come too soon, whereas he normally never has a problem with control. On the upside, however, SWIM could have sex as many times as he wanted...and he wanted it a lot, a lot more than usual.
his semen volume was lower than usual. I know some people don't get this, but SWIM says that he thinks the physical sensation of the semen coursing out during orgasm is pleasurable, and the more there is, the more pleasurable it is.
There were also some mild physical side effects, most notably some hair-related side effects. There was no visible hair loss, but SWIM noticed that there were more stray hairs on his pillow than usual when he woke up in the morning. Also, he now has more hair on his back, and a slight amount of hair on the underside of his forearms, whereas he had none before. As mentioned, this has been about 3 years ago, so these effects seem to be irreversible.
Wildflower
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speculation aside, someone needs to be a guinea pig for this. step up.
Wildflower
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We, gentleman, are pioneers. A generation from now, men will look to us as heroes.
Here you go Monty:
http://www.aclepsa.com/mesterolone
Good luck! :bravo:
Here you go Monty:
http://www.aclepsa.com/mesterolone
Good luck! :bravo:
Wildflower
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UPDATE:
My libidos come back with avengeance. I've been off the dutasteride for some three weeks, so i doubt its cos my DHT levels are back to "normal". But i don't know what combination of the stuff i mentioned is working.
I've been necking OTT amounts of testosterone supplemants (tongkat, tribulus, ZMA), loads of l-arginine, SERMS (Nolvadex AND Clomid) and Cabergoline. Also weight training and Muay Thai classes that i always done.
Problem now is that my sex-drive is in over-drive. Like i'm hard constantly ALL DAY LONG and when i'm f*****g my girlfriend i c*m way way way too quick, like i'm ready to c*m all the time. And the orgasms themselves are a lot weaker (but that might be cos i'm fooking so much).
There has to be a middle ground!!!
My libidos come back with avengeance. I've been off the dutasteride for some three weeks, so i doubt its cos my DHT levels are back to "normal". But i don't know what combination of the stuff i mentioned is working.
I've been necking OTT amounts of testosterone supplemants (tongkat, tribulus, ZMA), loads of l-arginine, SERMS (Nolvadex AND Clomid) and Cabergoline. Also weight training and Muay Thai classes that i always done.
Problem now is that my sex-drive is in over-drive. Like i'm hard constantly ALL DAY LONG and when i'm f*****g my girlfriend i c*m way way way too quick, like i'm ready to c*m all the time. And the orgasms themselves are a lot weaker (but that might be cos i'm fooking so much).
There has to be a middle ground!!!
Wildflower
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Don't worry, i will go back to a dutasteride regime.
You see, i didn't know about this website when i started on the dutasteride. And i was popping sometimes two pills a day. I'm gonna get it all washed out of my system - 6 months, and then go back on it. But this time, use it once every 5 a day, + topical anti-androgen + Nizoral + minoxidil + copper peptide
And yeah, three weeks off is probably enough to get some libido back, but not this level. Seriosly i've been textin my girlfriend telling her i'm gonna have a wank in the toilets at work or somet sh*t (i've restrained myself). Plus erections are ROCK HARD, i swear i've grown half an inch off the force of the erection alone. And just to get even more graphic, today i've been feeling like i'm about to shoot my load in my jeans withuot even touching it. a waking wet dream!
Hot sh*t, hehe. As i say tho, i don't kow what element of my drug taking is doing this. This has beeen a very unscientific experiment thus far. Maybe its the re-bound off the dutasteride, maybe the anti-estrogen, maybe the anti-prolactin, maybe the testosterone boosters. Who knows?
The trick would be to reintroduce my body to dutasteride and vary the above and see what effect that happens. But as i said, i'm gonna wait six months to clear all of it out of my system before going again.
keep us posted if you do buy the stuff and try it out. Make sure you use it whilst on the dutasteride (or whatever) so we can see what effect the combination therapy has.
i'll bump this for an update!
You see, i didn't know about this website when i started on the dutasteride. And i was popping sometimes two pills a day. I'm gonna get it all washed out of my system - 6 months, and then go back on it. But this time, use it once every 5 a day, + topical anti-androgen + Nizoral + minoxidil + copper peptide
And yeah, three weeks off is probably enough to get some libido back, but not this level. Seriosly i've been textin my girlfriend telling her i'm gonna have a wank in the toilets at work or somet sh*t (i've restrained myself). Plus erections are ROCK HARD, i swear i've grown half an inch off the force of the erection alone. And just to get even more graphic, today i've been feeling like i'm about to shoot my load in my jeans withuot even touching it. a waking wet dream!
Hot sh*t, hehe. As i say tho, i don't kow what element of my drug taking is doing this. This has beeen a very unscientific experiment thus far. Maybe its the re-bound off the dutasteride, maybe the anti-estrogen, maybe the anti-prolactin, maybe the testosterone boosters. Who knows?
The trick would be to reintroduce my body to dutasteride and vary the above and see what effect that happens. But as i said, i'm gonna wait six months to clear all of it out of my system before going again.
keep us posted if you do buy the stuff and try it out. Make sure you use it whilst on the dutasteride (or whatever) so we can see what effect the combination therapy has.
i'll bump this for an update!
Wildflower
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yes, what i'm saying is, whilst on the dutasteride the tesosterone boosters did NOTHING. v****/Cialis etc also did NOTHING.
Ive been on it for almost 2 years, and i NEVER realised that that's what it was. i always thought it's just cos i was getting older (im 27). Whne i used to shag my previous girl i kept going soft and needed constant stimulation, kept shoving in her mouth, jesus, i had no idea. Then when i had the problem with other girls, i thought it was "psychological" and anxiety etc.
No amount of test-boosters or v****/cialis did ANYTHIGN.
It's only when i came off the dutasteride, and kept with the test-boosters and added anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin, that now i'm raging.
The test-boosters don't work whilst on the dutasteride. Dunno about the anti-e's or other thing - though it has taken 3 WEEKS for that stuff to work as well - i.e. the dutasteride out of my system for longer.
This suggests, as i said above, the lack of DHT is the real problem. Not too much estrogen, less testosterone, or prolactin.
That's why i am considering melesterone. Because maybe this would work in combination with dutasteride?
Though thats a mad long shot.
Ive been on it for almost 2 years, and i NEVER realised that that's what it was. i always thought it's just cos i was getting older (im 27). Whne i used to shag my previous girl i kept going soft and needed constant stimulation, kept shoving in her mouth, jesus, i had no idea. Then when i had the problem with other girls, i thought it was "psychological" and anxiety etc.
No amount of test-boosters or v****/cialis did ANYTHIGN.
It's only when i came off the dutasteride, and kept with the test-boosters and added anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin, that now i'm raging.
The test-boosters don't work whilst on the dutasteride. Dunno about the anti-e's or other thing - though it has taken 3 WEEKS for that stuff to work as well - i.e. the dutasteride out of my system for longer.
This suggests, as i said above, the lack of DHT is the real problem. Not too much estrogen, less testosterone, or prolactin.
That's why i am considering melesterone. Because maybe this would work in combination with dutasteride?
Though thats a mad long shot.
Wildflower
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i went straight for dutasteride, like two-pills a day lol
i had no knowledge of hormones or anything. Seems from the literature that finasteride gives men more sex-sides.
Ha, it's funny, the A-sexual thing I felt like that. Before i used to talk to my girl on the phone or in person even and like be really good company/listener, talking about politics, philosophy and all sorts of bollox.
But the last 4/5 days all i talk about with her is shagging, f*****g, let's have phone sex, wish you were here now, i'm coming to your place tonight lol.
I feel this is beginning to annoy her, even tho she has a high sex drive herself.
i had no knowledge of hormones or anything. Seems from the literature that finasteride gives men more sex-sides.
Ha, it's funny, the A-sexual thing I felt like that. Before i used to talk to my girl on the phone or in person even and like be really good company/listener, talking about politics, philosophy and all sorts of bollox.
But the last 4/5 days all i talk about with her is shagging, f*****g, let's have phone sex, wish you were here now, i'm coming to your place tonight lol.
I feel this is beginning to annoy her, even tho she has a high sex drive herself.
Wildflower
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and the funny thing is, you forget what it feels like to have had/not had a libido.
Like when i lost mine, i didn't even realise until real world evidence of failed sex started mounting up. But even then, i didn't actualyl miss the libido at all, i forgot what that felt like, i just missed the intimacy with the girl
But now, i can't imagine what it was like being a-sexual again. Like f***, it's like i've been like this forever.... that's why the whole dutasteride libido thing is hard for most men to gauge, and they miss report their sexual disfunction.
Like when i lost mine, i didn't even realise until real world evidence of failed sex started mounting up. But even then, i didn't actualyl miss the libido at all, i forgot what that felt like, i just missed the intimacy with the girl
But now, i can't imagine what it was like being a-sexual again. Like f***, it's like i've been like this forever.... that's why the whole dutasteride libido thing is hard for most men to gauge, and they miss report their sexual disfunction.