Could my loss of collagen have caused my hair loss? O.O

[Hoppi]

Hoppi's wacky theory number 46 of 524! lol

But like, they happened at exactly the same time, you know? Rapid skin thinning, followed by fairly rapid diffuse male pattern baldness hair loss. Its just TOO coincidental, at least it is to me. That's one reason I found it so hard to accept that it was purely genetic or unrelated to health, because it coincided so precisely with another rather concerning and sudden physical change. My skin went from thick to thin in 4 days, and then my hair followed suit over the following months. This is why I suspected thyroid or cortisol.

But what if the hair and skin dont SHARE a common cause per se, but rather the thinning skin / collagen reduction weakened my hair making it more vulnerable and susceptible to the effects of my DHT..

Thoughts? O.O

Hoppi

 

[guitar66]

you need a vacation, dude.

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Short answer: Who the hell knows?

Long answer: Hair loss can be connected to inflammation. Your body responds to inflammation by increasing cortisol production. Increased cortisol is related to decreased collagen.

The only connection there that is a clearly defined cause and effect is the inflammation causing cortisol increase, the others are just commonly found links.

 

[Hoppi]

Yeah I think I'll give this one a blast, it would be truly wonderful if this was it as it would basically mean I don't have 2 things to deal with anymore only one, and I would be back looking and feeling like my old self! I would be so happy

you need a vacation, dude.

I'm sorry, I'm just vain there really is very little else to it. I like being vain though lol


Oh, edit, to be fair my insulin and cortisol would have both been fairly high as I was a stressed out guy eating a LOT of junk food lol

So, Brains, when cortisol causes skin thinning, is it usually permanent?

 

[karlg]

Hoppi's wacky theory number 46 of 524! lol

But like, they happened at exactly the same time, you know? Rapid skin thinning, followed by fairly rapid diffuse male pattern baldness hair loss. Its just TOO coincidental, at least it is to me. That's one reason I found it so hard to accept that it was purely genetic or unrelated to health, because it coincided so precisely with another rather concerning and sudden physical change. My skin went from thick to thin in 4 days, and then my hair followed suit over the following months. This is why I suspected thyroid or cortisol.

But what if the hair and skin dont SHARE a common cause per se, but rather the thinning skin / collagen reduction weakened my hair making it more vulnerable and susceptible to the effects of my DHT..

Thoughts? O.O

Hoppi

Hoppi, what caused your skin to thin so rapidly? or do you not know?

I know skin/scalp needling is supposed to increase collagen, but does cortisol have any impact on hair loss as such? and what purpose does it serve in the body?

 

[karlg]

Hoppi!!

Your a suppliment junkie what do you think of this?

http://www.biovea.co.uk/%28S%28deoosdid ... 1514&CID=0

 

[Hoppi]

I truly don't know what made my skin thin. It was a bit distressing at the time, I felt a little embarrassed about it and didn't want people to see. It is a little more transparent (as of course you would expect), but it's mostly just dry and wrinkly to the touch, it used to be so so nice

I mean, I could attempt to blame normal aging, but that seems a bit ridiculous in as little as a few days. As for cortisol, cortisol is the primary stress hormone, and I believe that when it increases it increases insulin, and vice versa. So if I was stressing, eating chocolate and drinking red bull (as I was) I may have just thrown my hormones way off the mark and caused something to go a bit wrong..

I'm not sure to be honest, but all I do know is that if it wasn't my skin thinning that caused my hair loss, then something else happened at almost precisely the same time, undetected by me, that caused it, and that seems far more unlikely to my mind.


EDIT -- and yes supplements like that do look very interesting to me. The best things to take seem to be collagen or hydrolized collagen (I'm still learning the difference), vitamin C, hyaluronic acid and glucosamine. Taurine and the Omegas also get a lot of mention. I really, really do hope this is finally the cause, as it would be fantastic not to have to deal with all this anymore and have my nice hair back again. I might pop to a dermatologist soon and get a general opinion.

 

[karlg]

EDIT -- and yes supplements like that do look very interesting to me. The best things to take seem to be collagen or hydrolized collagen (I'm still learning the difference), vitamin C, hyaluronic acid and glucosamine. Taurine and the Omegas also get a lot of mention. I really, really do hope this is finally the cause, as it would be fantastic not to have to deal with all this anymore and have my nice hair back again. I might pop to a dermatologist soon and get a general opinion.

I have started eating alot of sea food and taking omega-3 suppliments, aswell as multi vitimins and coenzyme Q10 with vitimin E (not just for hair, but overall health too),

So for increasing collagen production would these 3 be along the right lines

Collagen 750mg
http://www.biovea.co.uk/%28S%28y0qyvb3i ... 1514&CID=0

Hyaluronic Acid 40mg
http://www.biovea.co.uk/%28S%28y0qyvb3i ... px?PID=480

Glucosamine 500mg
http://www.biovea.co.uk/%28S%28y0qyvb3i ... 1560&CID=0

Also, there are aparantly 3 types of collagen, type I , II, and III.
Type II is ment to be good for joint pain etc... but which is better for skin and hair? or will both type I and type III do?

 

[Hoppi]

That's a good question - I'm not entirely sure! I'll have to have a read 2moro to see which type must have been affected the most in me. Also I am unsure of how much rebuilding collagen will help others with male pattern baldness, I would imagine that the older someone first experiences it, the more chance thicker, healthier and supple collagen may be lacking. I do feel though that in many hair loss has triggers, so it does seem to be down to the individual to establish what his own ones are. Hence why The Natural solved male pattern baldness with cur and res and even got regrowth, but for me it might do nothing. I think that different people need different treatments

Anywho, I'll look into the collagen types 2moro

 

[Hoppi]

Ah according to my good friend Wikipedia there are many kinds of collagen! I forget the exact number but it was quite high! However, it said that 90% of it is types 1-4. 1 is skin and tendons, 2 is I believe cartilage, 3 is like.. I think it largely supports 1, and 4 is... withi the cells or something i think. 5 is hair. Sorry for being so vague - I'm sitting on a train on my phone so its hard to go on multiple sites at once lol

I doubt a loss of 5 is my problem though as my hair strands themselves arent thinning, just the density. I'll try boosting my types 1 and 3 of collagen (primarily) and see if it helps!

 

[purecontrol]

Hoppi's wacky theory number 46 of 524! lol

But like, they happened at exactly the same time, you know? Rapid skin thinning, followed by fairly rapid diffuse male pattern baldness hair loss. Its just TOO coincidental, at least it is to me. That's one reason I found it so hard to accept that it was purely genetic or unrelated to health, because it coincided so precisely with another rather concerning and sudden physical change. My skin went from thick to thin in 4 days, and then my hair followed suit over the following months. This is why I suspected thyroid or cortisol.

But what if the hair and skin dont SHARE a common cause per se, but rather the thinning skin / collagen reduction weakened my hair making it more vulnerable and susceptible to the effects of my DHT..

Thoughts? O.O

Hoppi

Actually you are on to something, hyaluronic acid acts to stop inflamation in the skin and is largely responsible for collagen.

I use this topically in the new lotion made by that chemist I was talking about. Makes your skin look great also LOL

 

[Hoppi]

haha cool

Yeah as soon as I have the cash and stuff I'm gonna give this my best and not give up until my skin is back to normal! I may turn out to be living, breathing proof that collagen quality/quantity can make or break male pattern baldness!

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

I personally think it's more of a correlational relationship than causal. The only way to prove otherwise would be to just inject collagen as a treatment and observe positive results (which I doubt will occur).

As far as cortisol/thinning permanence, thinning that occurs as a result of locally injected cortisol or topically applied cortisol (which takes quite a while to develop) is temporary and returns to normal after treatment is ceased. I am not sure about the lasting effects of thinning caused by endogenous cortisol, this probably sticks around a bit longer.

As far as your "diffuse male pattern baldness" hair loss. Are you sure it's male pattern baldness and that you aren't experiencing any thinning in the "safe" zones on the sides and back? Forget about the temple recession, that's not specific to androgenic alopecia.

 

[armandein]

Hi Hoppy
Are you lossing collagen only in the area where you are lossing hair?

Any theory, IMHO, must explain, at least, the special hair loss pattern and the difference incidrence between sexes. Loss of collagen can explain this two issues? If not, then it could be only a aggravanting factor

Armando

 

[Hoppi]

I think that my follicles became more susceptible to my DHT because they are now weaker.

and Brains I dunno man, it feels the thinnest at the front and top but it does feel very diffuse. Then again my hair is long so its hard to know the exact area a hair has come from.

And thanks for the info on cortisol by the way. Back last year when I first was discussing this with my doctor he didnt feel it was thyroid or stress/cortisol, but I have heard other similar stories of stress doing this to people's skin. Its not very pleasant ._. oh well, I think I can probably recover it with time which will be wonderful

 

[Artas]

If you seriously have that many theories, then you'll be worrying about nearly everything all the time, not good for your health as it will cause stress, plus your messing with your body by taking tons of supplements, you are wasting money, recquires too much work... don't look into all these theories, your hair loss might not even be the answer to most of these theories...

You need a break and need some time to take your mind away from hair loss.

 

[Hoppi]

You know that overproduction of collagen is responsible of low anchorage of hair follicles in male pattern baldness areas... right ? You know that a decrease in collagen production would be a benediction for us baldies... don't you ? You have already goggled "perifollicular fibrosis alopecia", haven't you ? You know about fibroblasts and TGF beta 1, right ?

yeah but just because collagen can overrun dying follicles doesn't mean that the hair doesn't need healthy, supple, youthful collagen to thrive and be strong does it? I have learnt very clearly over the past 6 months that so many things in the body have very positive and very negative properties, depending on how, when and to what extent they are expressed.

EDIT -- Also for the record seaback man, I just want to say I think you really would be surprised how similar we are sometimes. I mean look at these messages I just sent to someone regarding some of this:

"23:24:26: listen to me
23:24:30: the reason we lose hair
23:24:32: is DHT
23:24:36: D-H-T
23:24:49: not collagen, not thyroid, not insulin, not diet, not exercise
23:24:50: DHT
23:25:02: it's just that these other things can make it all a lot worse ._.
23:25:18: but if we were female, all that stuff wouldn't matter coz we don't have the DHT to set it off
23:25:31: so if I can't fix my hair loss with like, replacing the lost collagen etc
23:25:36: I'm just gonna go on Densiti"


Do you see where I'm coming at this from? I KNOW it's DHT, but what I'm saying is that perhaps if someone's DHT is too high or something is making their follicles more vulnerable than usual, I personally think that that can be enough to tip the balance and result in male pattern baldness. Now, I'm open to being wrong, but I just want to illustrate here that I am really not denying the place of DHT as the cause of male pattern baldness, I'm just saying that other things may have significance when DHT is already in the picture.

 

[purecontrol]

If it was as simple as DHT then women would not have thining hair and hair loss and something like Duta or Proscare would work 100% to resotre and work 100% for everyone. Even those with genetics to not have male pattern baldness still lose their hair over time.

Fact is that is simply does not work that way.

 

[Hoppi]

If you seriously have that many theories...

I was joking

 

[dougfunny]

If you seriously have that many theories...

I was joking

about all of them? :mrgreen: