Dear all Hair Lords.

[Jacoby77]

For all you hair loss pros.. Derm didn't do any scalp biopsy just looked at my hair and said yep, male pattern baldness. So, for a Diffuse thinner, would just trying out Finasteride be a good start, or would Minoxidil be a MUST alongside.

I really don't wish to try Minoxidil together unless I have to as time consuming and pricey for me. Would it be fine to start with finasteride, then use minoxidil if finasteride doesn't hold it later down the track?

Thanks.

 

[DoctorHouse]

For all you hair loss pros.. Derm didn't do any scalp biopsy just looked at my hair and said yep, male pattern baldness. So, for a Diffuse thinner, would just trying out Finasteride be a good start, or would Minoxidil be a MUST alongside.

I really don't wish to try Minoxidil together unless I have to as time consuming and pricey for me. Would it be fine to start with finasteride, then use minoxidil if finasteride doesn't hold it later down the track?

Thanks.

Start with finasteride first so you know if you improve it's just the finasteride. If you use minoxidil and finasteride at the same time you won't know what is actually helping.

 

[Micky_007]

For all you hair loss pros.. Derm didn't do any scalp biopsy just looked at my hair and said yep, male pattern baldness. So, for a Diffuse thinner, would just trying out Finasteride be a good start, or would Minoxidil be a MUST alongside.

I really don't wish to try Minoxidil together unless I have to as time consuming and pricey for me. Would it be fine to start with finasteride, then use minoxidil if finasteride doesn't hold it later down the track?

Thanks.

Dermatologists don't help, I mentioned this before many times on this forum.
Most often people on forums like these who have dealt with hairloss have far more knowledge.

Personally I wouldn't even touch Finasteride. I know you want to try the convenient Finasteride pill form route because it is easier, but you need to consider that Finasteride might give you sexual side effects that might be permanent as well as mental sides which can last a good few years whilst using it.

Minoxidil is less likely to give you sides.

I'd suggest Microneedling once every month, or once every 2 weeks or once a week, and using topical Minoxidil 5% twice a day every day.

Also because Finasteride at best just stops further progression of hairloss (in the few times it does work) and rarely causes thickening or regrowth.

Minoxidil boosts your hair as it is a stimulant, so its the Minoxidil which will actually help to create thicker stronger hairs. But Minoxidil alone rarely works, hence you need to combine it with Microneedling to help increase absorbtion.

So for convenience you can Microneedle on a weekend and don't use Minoxidil on the same day you microneedle, but use topical 5% Minoxidil twice a day every day after.

 

[Jacoby77]

Dermatologists don't help, I mentioned this before many times on this forum.
Most often people on forums like these who have dealt with hairloss have far more knowledge.

Personally I wouldn't even touch Finasteride. I know you want to try the convenient Finasteride pill form route because it is easier, but you need to consider that Finasteride might give you sexual side effects that might be permanent as well as mental sides which can last a good few years whilst using it.

Minoxidil is less likely to give you sides.

I'd suggest Microneedling once every month, or once every 2 weeks or once a week, and using topical Minoxidil 5% twice a day every day.

Also because Finasteride at best just stops further progression of hairloss (in the few times it does work) and rarely causes thickening or regrowth.

Minoxidil boosts your hair as it is a stimulant, so its the Minoxidil which will actually help to create thicker stronger hairs. But Minoxidil alone rarely works, hence you need to combine it with Microneedling to help increase absorbtion.

So for convenience you can Microneedle on a weekend and don't use Minoxidil on the same day, but use topicals 5% Minoxidil twice a day every other day.

I can always just do Minoxidil by itself if Finasteride doesn't work.. but Minoxidil doesn't actually do anything to the root problem, I'd still be balding without suppressing anything that contributes to hair thinning. It is like putting a paper bag over the problem, right?

I understand Finasteride has sides yes, but risk reward comes into play and I was seriously considering just Minoxidil like you said happy days, but it won't tackle or maintain my hair like Finasteride would, even if it regrows thicker hair.. eventually the thinning would overpower it.

 

[Micky_007]

I can always just do Minoxidil by itself if Finasteride doesn't work.. but Minoxidil doesn't actually do anything to the root problem, I'd still be balding without suppressing anything that contributes to hair thinning. It is like putting a paper bag over the problem, right?

I understand Finasteride has sides yes, but risk reward comes into play and I was seriously considering just Minoxidil like you said happy days, but it won't tackle or maintain my hair like Finasteride would, even if it regrows thicker hair.. eventually the thinning would overpower it.

This is what we have been falsely lead to believe. The way in which Finasteride works also doesn't truly solve the hairloss problem, hence we have so many upcoming treatments in the pipeline all using different mechanisms of action to treat hairloss.

There have been people who have had better experience on Minoxidil and Microneedling alone than Finasteride.

Thread 'Microneedling Photo Results Summary' https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-photo-results-summary.121072/

This is just the advice I wish others told me when I started.

But sure you can try Finasteride if you want and see if you don't get sides. I just personally wouldn't risk getting permanent sides which you really don't understand the gravity of if you're still considering trying, because by the time you realize that you have persistent sides, it might be too late to reverse it.

 

[Jacoby77]

This is what we have been falsely lead to believe. The way in which Finasteride works also doesn't truly solve the hairloss problem, hence we have so many upcoming treatments in the pipeline all using different mechanisms of action to treat hairloss.

There have been people who have had better experience on Minoxidil and Microneedling alone than Finasteride.

Thread 'Microneedling Photo Results Summary' https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-photo-results-summary.121072/

This is just the advice I wish others told me when I started.

But sure you can try Finasteride if you want and see if you don't get sides. I just personally wouldn't risk getting permanent sides which you really don't understand the gravity of if you're still considering trying, because by the time you realize that you have persistent sides, it might be too late to reverse it.

I honestly can tell you, the sexual sides wouldn't affect me because I'm not interested or in need of a connection with anyone to be happy, it's just how my brain works. The ONLY side effect that would ruin me is Gyno. I'm going to pray that doesn't happen, and think positively...


My logic is this.. If finasteride doesn't work then my only hope is literally minoxidil, hair piece, or transplant. If minoxidil doesn't work as a last resort (if finasteride gives sides), it never would've worked in the first place.. Basically if minoxidil is for me, it'll work if finasteride fails, but if it isn't for me, it won't work regardless.

 

[Jacoby77]

Start with finasteride first so you know if you improve it's just he finasteride. If you use minoxidil and finasteride at the same time you won't know what is actually helping.

Could minoxidil by itself actually help male pattern baldness? For let's say, at least a few years?

 

[Micky_007]

I honestly can tell you, the sexual sides wouldn't affect me because I'm not interested or in need of a connection with anyone to be happy, it's just how my brain works. The ONLY side effect that would ruin me is Gyno. I'm going to pray that doesn't happen, and think positively...


My logic is this.. If finasteride doesn't work then my only hope is literally minoxidil, hair piece, or transplant. If minoxidil doesn't work as a last resort (if finasteride gives sides), it never would've worked in the first place.. Basically if minoxidil is for me, it'll work if finasteride fails, but if it isn't for me, it won't work regardless.

Losing your sex drive has a ripple effect that many don't realize beforehand. It also affects other drives in your life, like motivation, depression, focus, anxiety, these can become seriously impacted.

Post in thread 'If Propecia gets pulled off market, I'll pull a Virginia Beach' https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ill-pull-a-virginia-beach.134815/post-2016353

Also, people often forget that in the cases where Finasteride doesn't work, it can cause a worsening effect on hairloss by reflex hyper androgenicity, upregulation of AR.

But at the end of the day, it's your choice. All I can do is advise you about the real things to look out for.

 

[Jacoby77]

Losing your sex drive has a ripple effect that many don't realize beforehand. It also affects other drives in your life, like motivation, depression, focus, anxiety, these can become seriously impacted.

Post in thread 'If Propecia gets pulled off market, I'll pull a Virginia Beach' https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ill-pull-a-virginia-beach.134815/post-2016353

Also, people often forget that in the classes where Finasteride doesn't work, it can cause a worsening effect on hairloss by reflex hyper androgenicity, upregulation of AR.

But at the end of the day, it's your choice. All I can do is advise you about the real things to look out for.

I understand.

It's just a bit strange. Obviously if you check my photos on my profile, my hair looks pretty thin depending on if it is messy or brushed, no hiding that truth.

It's just my dermatologist said I have male pattern baldness without checking for Miniaturization or anything. My Vitamin D levels are 20, and should be above 50 for normal range. My thyroid levels are a tiny bit higher than usual. I'm just thinking something else could be causing my hair thinning, as I get literally 0 shedding even if I pull my hair tight or wash it with shampoo.

Suppose I should trust the dermatologist, and stop holding onto false hope, she probably is right but she only checked with her eyes nothing else..and hair loss doesn't run in my family apart from one bald uncle.. Mum's father didn't receed till late 40s and had hair till death, and my dad is NW1 at 60... And ill never know if I don't try, if I get reflex whatever then I'm getting a hair piece. I'm only 20 so hair is important

 

[Micky_007]

I understand.

It's just a bit strange. Obviously if you check my photos on my profile, my hair looks pretty thin depending on if it is messy or brushed, no hiding that truth.

It's just my dermatologist said I have male pattern baldness without checking for Miniaturization or anything. My Vitamin D levels are 20, and should be above 50 for normal range. My thyroid levels are a tiny bit higher than usual. I'm just thinking something else could be causing my hair thinning, as I get literally 0 shedding even if I pull my hair tight or wash it with shampoo.

Suppose I should trust the dermatologist, and stop holding onto false hope, she probably is right but she only checked with her eyes nothing else..and hair loss doesn't run in my family apart from one bald uncle.. Mum's father didn't receed till late 40s and had hair till death, and my dad is NW1 at 60... And ill never know if I don't try, if I get reflex whatever then I'm getting a hair piece. I'm only 20 so hair is important

Same happened with my experience at the dermatologist. They don't know sh*t.

Low vitamin D levels can lead to hairloss.

Take a vitamin D supplement every day which has "high potency" or "super potency" on the bottle. Usually one tablet contains all the vitamin D you require for a day and may be more. It will take about 3 to 4 months for you to only restore your depleted vitamin D levels to normal. Try that first, coupled with regular exercise 4 times a week atleast and cut out all sugar. Sugar can increase DHT and if your hair Follicles are sensitive to DHT, you know what that means.

If I'm not mistaken, you usually need to be taking Vitamin D3. I'd also include Vitamin B6 or B Complex (Biotin Included) and Zinc.

 

[Jacoby77]

Same happened with my experience at the dermatologist. They don't know sh*t.

Low vitamin D levels can lead to hairloss.

Take a vitamin D supplement every day which has "high potency" or "super potency" on the bottle. Usually one tablet contains all the vitamin D you require for a day and may be more. It will take about 3 to 4 months for you to only restore your depleted vitamin D levels to normal. Try that first, coupled with regular exercise 4 times a week atleast and cut out all sugar. Sugar can increase DHT and if your hair Follicles are sensitive to DHT, you know what that means.

If I'm not mistaken, you usually need to be taking Vitamin D3. I'd also include Vitamin B6 or B Complex (Biotin Included) and Zinc.

Yeah, it's just I don't know tbh.

I can definitely take vitamin D supplements, but I don't want to leave my hair for another 4 months as it could get considerably worse if that makes sense. finasteride is dangerous I know. I'm still scared to take it but if I don't try it I'll never know.

 

[Jacoby77]

Same happened with my experience at the dermatologist. They don't know sh*t.

Low vitamin D levels can lead to hairloss.

Take a vitamin D supplement every day which has "high potency" or "super potency" on the bottle. Usually one tablet contains all the vitamin D you require for a day and may be more. It will take about 3 to 4 months for you to only restore your depleted vitamin D levels to normal. Try that first, coupled with regular exercise 4 times a week atleast and cut out all sugar. Sugar can increase DHT and if your hair Follicles are sensitive to DHT, you know what that means.

If I'm not mistaken, you usually need to be taking Vitamin D3. I'd also include Vitamin B6 or B Complex (Biotin Included) and Zinc.

I'm scared of finasteride now.. I honestly want to try just minoxidil, but unfortunately, it LITERALLY does not tackle the root cause and slow down balding. I am not getting mad, I'm just saying so you can see my point

Okay so if I take minoxidil, let's say it works. Okay.. 3 options.

1. Hair grows thicker, but temples start to receed eventually, as min isn't as useful there as it is the crown, proven by studies.

2. 10 years pass, the balding overpowers the minoxidil, as it doesn't tackle or halt hairloss and I have no other options because my hair is completely ruined due to not stopping the root cause. If I stop the minoxidil as well, I go completely bald too as it doesn't suppress DHT.

3. I quit minoxidil as it stops working well, all the thickened hair sheds, but I have no other options now with finasteride because all my hair is weak and ruined and miniaturized and I never tackled the root cause.

Isnt the best option, take finasteride, then if finasteride doesn't work, take minoxidil. If I do minoxidil first and it works my original hair will keep balding and I'll have none left if minoxidil loses it's effectiveness.

 

[Doingitright]

Yeah, it's just I don't know tbh.

I can definitely take vitamin D supplements, but I don't want to leave my hair for another 4 months as it could get considerably worse if that makes sense. finasteride is dangerous I know. I'm still scared to take it but if I don't try it I'll never know.

Also worth noting there are plenty of significant medical journals that capture data from thousands of patients worldwide and testify to Finasteride's efficacy and safety. Millions of people around the world take Finasteride on a daily basis, over 1 million of which are estimated to be taking it for hair loss in the United States alone. No doubt there are sides but thats often a very small margin of varying severities.

 

[Jacoby77]

Also worth noting there are plenty of significant medical journals that capture data from thousands of patients worldwide and testify to Finasteride's efficacy and safety. Millions of people around the world take Finasteride on a daily basis, over 1 million of which are estimated to be taking it for hair loss in the United States alone. No doubt there are sides but thats often a very small margin of varying severities.

Understood.... I get no shedding though, and no family history, but vitamin D is below 20, do you believe that could be causing the invisible thinning? Literally no shedding which is weird. I don't want to take finasteride before I confirm, otherwise I risk a lot.

 

[Micky_007]

I'm scared of finasteride now.. I honestly want to try just minoxidil, but unfortunately, it LITERALLY does not tackle the root cause and slow down balding. I am not getting mad, I'm just saying so you can see my point

Okay so if I take minoxidil, let's say it works. Okay.. 3 options.

1. Hair grows thicker, but temples start to receed eventually, as min isn't as useful there as it is the crown, proven by studies.

2. 10 years pass, the balding overpowers the minoxidil, as it doesn't tackle or halt hairloss and I have no other options because my hair is completely ruined due to not stopping the root cause. If I stop the minoxidil as well, I go completely bald too as it doesn't suppress DHT.

3. I quit minoxidil as it stops working well, all the thickened hair sheds, but I have no other options now with finasteride because all my hair is weak and ruined and miniaturized and I never tackled the root cause.

Isnt the best option, take finasteride, then if finasteride doesn't work, take minoxidil. If I do minoxidil first and it works my original hair will keep balding and I'll have none left if minoxidil loses it's effectiveness.

You don't need Minoxidil to be a lifelong solution, you literally only need it to buy you time and just maintenance until 2023 when Kintor Pharmaceuticals Pyrilutamide will be released and you can even choose between that or Breezula, but I have more confidence in Pyrilutamide.

Once you have Pyrilutamide, that should buy you a few years until Kintors next highly anticipated Androgen Receptor Degrader GT20029 will be released.

Also, you need to remember that Finasteride isn't proven to always work on the hairline either.

Also, it's common misconception that people think because there's 2 million prescription of it sold in USA per year that they think it's effective or safe.

1) You must remember that hairloss affects up to 60% of all males by the age of 50. That being said there will always be a new bunch of males every year who will experience hairloss and the first thing the dermatologist will prescribe them is Finasteride because it's one of only 2 FDA approved treatments available for men. You will rarely get a Dermatologist prescribe you something that isn't FDA approved in America. So it doesn't matter whether it's effective or not in those 2 million people who use Finasteride each year in America, they get prescribed it Asa default almost just for checking in with the dermatologist for Hairloss. That's how they easily hit that number of "2 million prescriptions of Finasteride in America per year".

Also, Finasteride is also used for Prostate cancer and prostate related problems, so part of that amount goes to prostate related patients.

Group sues to have hair-loss drug Propecia pulled from market | Reuters

Group sues to have hair-loss drug Propecia pulled from market

A patient advocacy group has filed a lawsuit seeking to pull Merck & Co's hair loss drug Propecia and its generic versions from the market, saying federal regulators had failed to act on evidence that it causes depression, erectile dysfunction and, in some cases, suicide.

www.reuters.com

2) Finasteride has already falsified information before, by understating the side effects and to not expect them to have overstated the efficacy isn't wise.

There have been loads of new real independent studies proving how bad blocking DHT production in males are because DHT is the 2nd most important male hormone in men. For this reason, common sense would tell you that blocking +-70% of DHT isn't good.
To no suprise, that's the reason there's so many people who have side effects, and I definitely don't believe it's a minority. This forum and multiple other forums alone shows its not a minority but more like 50/50 that experience sides.

 

[Jacoby77]

You don't need Minoxidil to be a lifelong solution, you literally only need it to buy you time and just maintenance until 2023 when Kintor Pharmaceuticals Pyrilutamide will be released and you can even choose between that or Breezula, but I have more confidence in Pyrilutamide.

Once you have Pyrilutamide, that should buy you a few years until Kintors next highly anticipated Androgen Receptor Degrader GT20029 will be released.

Also, you need to remember that Finasteride isn't proven to always work on the hairline either.

Also, it's common misconception that people think because there's 2 million prescription of it sold in USA per year that they think it's effective or safe.

1) You must remember that hairloss affects up to 60% of all males by the age of 50. That being said there will always be a new bunch of males every year who will experience hairloss and the first thing the dermatologist will prescribe them is Finasteride because it's one of only 2 FDA approved treatments available for men. You will rarely get a Dermatologist prescribe you something that isn't FDA approved in America. So it doesn't matter whether it's effective or not in those 2 million people who use Finasteride each year in America, they get prescribed it Asa default almost just for checking in with the dermatologist for Hairloss. That's how they easily hit that number of "2 million prescriptions of Finasteride in America per year".

Also, Finasteride is also used for Prostate cancer and prostate related problems, so part of that amount goes to prostate related patients.

Group sues to have hair-loss drug Propecia pulled from market | Reuters

Group sues to have hair-loss drug Propecia pulled from market

A patient advocacy group has filed a lawsuit seeking to pull Merck & Co's hair loss drug Propecia and its generic versions from the market, saying federal regulators had failed to act on evidence that it causes depression, erectile dysfunction and, in some cases, suicide.

www.reuters.com

2) Finasteride has already falsified information before, by understating the side effects and to not expect them to have overstated the efficacy isn't wise.

There have been loads of new real independent studies proving how bad blocking DHT production in males are because DHT is the 2nd most important make hormone in men. For this reason, common sense would tell you that blocking +-70% of DHT isn't good.
To no suprise, that's the reason there's so many people who have side effects, and I definitely don't believe it's a minority. This forum and multiple other forums alone shows its not a minority but more like 50/50 that experience sides.

Right, so I am correct.. just taking Minoxidil by itself for 5 years means I left my hair to naturally bald for 5 years (even if I regrow hair to minoxidil) as I never attacked the root cause. By then it could be too late and once I stop Minoxidil my balding will show its true colors, the minoxidil hair will shed, and look like it would if I left it without any treatments for 5 years, meaning my hair could be too far gone.

Unfortunately, there isn't much anyone can do, finasteride, minoxidil are the main drugs right now. If I just take minoxidil I'm losing ground daily.

 

[Micky_007]

Right, so I am correct.. just taking Minoxidil by itself for 5 years means I left my hair to naturally bald for 5 years (even if I regrow hair to minoxidil) as I never attacked the root cause. By then it could be too late and once I stop Minoxidil my balding will show its true colors, the minoxidil hair will shed, and look like it would if I left it without any treatments for 5 years, meaning my hair could be too far gone.

Unfortunately, there isn't much anyone can do, finasteride, minoxidil are the main drugs right now. If I just take minoxidil I'm losing ground daily.

Actually, you could be taking Finasteride every day and still be losing ground. As I said, the mechanisim of action that Finasteride works by inhibiting DHT is not the answer, if it were there would be a majority of people who had good heads of hair, and that obviously isnt the case.

So this figure of Finasteride working for 70% for men is obviously nonsense, and the proof is literally by looking at the people around you, on TV, the media, etc. Finasteride is the most well-known drug associated with hairloss but it clearly does not provide anywhere near the a 70% positive effect on men's hairloss.

 

[Jacoby77]

Actually, you could be taking Finasteride every day and still be losing ground. As I said, the mechanisim of action that Finasteride works by inhibiting DHT is not the answer, if it were there would be a majority of people who had good heads of hair, and that obviously isnt the case.

So this figure of Finasteride working for 70% for men is obviously nonsense, and the proof is literally by looking at the people around you, on TV, the media, etc. Finasteride is the most well-known drug associated with hairloss but it clearly does not provide anywhere near the a 70% positive effect on men's hairloss.

I don't really have much other options now, no one does.

 

[Micky_007]

I don't really have much other options now, no one does.

You can do as you please of course. All I can assist with is helping you make a more informed decision.

But as I said, Vitamin D supplement super/high potency is a necessity for you, and other vitamins I mentioned are optional but good to have. You also have options such as Minoxidil + Microneedling, RU58841. And only a last resort I'd suggest Oral Minoxidil and Finasteride provided you don't get sides.

 

[Doingitright]

Actually, you could be taking Finasteride every day and still be losing ground. As I said, the mechanisim of action that Finasteride works by inhibiting DHT is not the answer, if it were there would be a majority of people who had good heads of hair, and that obviously isnt the case.

So this figure of Finasteride working for 70% for men is obviously nonsense, and the proof is literally by looking at the people around you, on TV, the media, etc. Finasteride is the most well-known drug associated with hairloss but it clearly does not provide anywhere near the a 70% positive effect on men's hairloss.

You are understating fact to discourage someone from using the most proven and established male pattern baldness treatment, I agree that there are risks but you need to make it clear that its unlikely to happen to the majority. as someone who has experienced nothing but positive results and minimal sides for years I can anecdotally say its a safe treatment. Those who experience problems scream the loudest best thing is to go in with a positive mind set IMO.