Do You Know What Really Is Fucked Up About finasteride?

[couldntthinkofaname]

One recent study published in Neuroendocrinology found that after 20 days of finasteride exposure, male rats showed altered levels of a whole host of neurosteroids and receptors in their brains. Thirty days after going off the drug, the changes were more pronounced than when they were on the drug.

Studies in humans have only just begun, at Baylor, Boston University, and elsewhere, so it's way too early to draw firm conclusions. But the theory surrounding what some patients call "the crash" goes something like this: Cells in the brain and genitals are starved of important hormones while on the drug, so they grow more receptors to sop up all that they can get. Once the drug is discontinued, the hormones come flooding back with more than the cells can handle, which hurts or kills them. "Essentially, the cells get too much DHT, it puts them in overdrive and it burns them out," says Jacobs. So even if the body starts making all those missing compounds again, the tissue has trouble using them.

https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/articl...y-behind-americas-best-selling-hair-loss-drug

if this theory is true why the f*** do we lose hair again if we stop taking finasteride?

why the f*** cant this sh*t just "burn" my androgen receptors at my scalp???



instead it apparently does nothing at your scalp but kills the receptors in brain and penis tissue in some people leading to permanent sideeffects..

 

[9982]

Why not just use topical finasteride? Save your nuts and hormones

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

Why not just use topical finasteride? Save your nuts and hormones

did i miss new developments? i thought it goes systematic aswell?


can you provide a link? do we have studies?

 

[9982]

Yes there are studies on topical. The research indicates that only 25% goes systemic compared to 70%. I was just reading one here.
The most important parts.

Go to minoxidilmax website, I think they have some links

Abbreviation: J Eur Acad Dermatol Venereol
Imprint Name(s):
Publication: Oxford : Wiley-Blackwell
Original Publication: Amsterdam ; New York : Elsevier Science Publishers, c1992-
Abstract:
Background: The synergism of combined use between oral finasteride and topical minoxidil has been established in treating androgenetic alopecia among men. However, the concern regarding adverse effects of finasteride use has been rising.
Objective: To compare the efficacy and safety of topical solution of 0.25% finasteride admixed with 3% minoxidil versus 3% minoxidil solution in men with androgenetic alopecia.
Methods: Forty men aged 18 to 60 years with androgenetic alopecia were randomized to 24 weeks of treatment with a finasteride/minoxidil or minoxidil solution twice daily. Primary efficacy endpoint was the change from baseline in hair density and hair diameter at week 24. Secondary endpoints included global photographic assessment by treatment-blinded investigators and subjects. Changes in plasma dihydrotestosterone levels and adverse events were recorded.
Results: At week 24, the combined solution of finasteride and minoxidil was significantly superior to minoxidil alone in improvements of hair density, hair diameter and global photographic assessment (all P < 0.05). About 90% of patients treated with the combined solution experienced moderate to marked improvement. The combined solution also had minimal effect on plasma dihydrotestosterone levels, approximately 5% reduction. There were also no systemic adverse events reported by patients in both groups.
Conclusion: Treatment with topical solution of 0.25% finasteride admixed with 3% minoxidil was significantly superior to 3% minoxidil solution for promoting hair growth in male androgenetic alopecia, and well tolerated. This article is protected by copyright. All rights reserved.
(This article is protected by copyright. All rights reserved.)
Contributed Indexing:
Keywords: androgenetic alopecia; finasteride; male pattern hair loss; topical finasteride; topical minoxidil
Entry Date(s):
Date Created: 20180705 Latest Revision: 20180704
Update Code:
20180705
DOI:
10.1111/jdv.15171

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

@9982

how high is the dht concentration in the scalp compared to oral finasterid? do we have data?

could i use topical finasterid without minoxidil? which vehicle could i use?

is there a thread were they already discussed this questions?

thanks fam

 

[Tommybommy1363]

Welp I better never stop taking it I guess

 

[9982]

The studies suggest that scalp dht is lowered by 51% topically whereas oral finasteride decreases scalp dht by 40%.
Even though sides aren't eliminated completely, they approach placebo numbers.
Don't know how to link from my phone but 3 good studies are on minoxidil max website under topical finasteride review.
They also sell a finasteride solution without min but it's like 300$. Might last a year though so.
Probably find them online with a search

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

The studies suggest that scalp dht is lowered by 51% topically whereas oral finasteride decreases scalp dht by 40%.
Even though sides aren't eliminated completely, they approach placebo numbers.
Don't know how to link from my phone but 3 good studies are on minoxidil max website under topical finasteride review.
Probably find them online with a search

what i found

Materials and Methods

Initial dosing studies were designed to establish the most effective topical concentration of finasteride with respect to serum DHT 5mg Proscar tablets were crushed to prepare the appropriate concentration suitable for topical dosing studies.

Males with genetic hair loss were selected on a named patient basis, and all gave their informed consent. Following a baseline blood test and medical examination, hair variables were assessed with the Unit Area Trichogram (a method with proven reproducibility) basely and, from the same sites, 12 months later. All blood tests were performed before 11 am following a 12 hr fast, with follow-up blood tests and medical examinations after 1, 4, and 12 months of therapy.

Results
Hormonal changes during dosing studies

The dosing study data are presented in Table 1 and Table 2. The results show that a twice daily application of 0.05% finasteride solution (2 x 2 ml) significantly lowers the serum DHT concentration, with only a marginal increase in DHT suppression being observed when the concentration was increased from 0.05% to 0.075% (data not presented).

Table 1.
Dosing data (mean, n=2) for topical 0.01% finasteride (2 x 2 ml daily) over a four week duration.

........................................ Week 0 ...... Week 1 ............. Week 4 ..... % Change
Testosterone (nmol/L) ..... 25.0 ........... 31.0 .................. 25.0 ............. 0%
DHT (nmol/L) ..................... 2.9 ............. 1.7 .................... 1.7 ............. -31%

Table 2.
Dosing data (mean +/- sd, n=9) for topical 0.05% finasteride (2 x 2 ml daily) over a 4 week duration

........................................ Week 0 ...... Week 4 ....... % Change ........ (paired t-test)
Testosterone (nmol/L) ...... 20.2 ......... 19.4 ............... -4% ................ NS
DHT (nmol/L) ..................... 1.8 ........... 1.1 ................ -39% ............... p<0.003

Hormonal and hair changes during topical 0.05% finasteride therapy
(Table 3)

During the treatment period significant suppression of the serum DHT was achieved in all individuals, with each remaining below the lower limit of normal (1.3 to 2.5 nmol/L) throughout treatment. In addition, no significant reduction in circulating serum testosterone or oestradiol concentration was found. The mean values obtained for total hair density (hair per cm^2) and non-vellus hair density are also presented. A vellus hair was defined as a hair less than or equal to 40 um in diameter, less than or equal to 30 mm in length.

Table 3.
Mean hair densities and hormonal values from 5 subjects treated with topical 0.05% finasteride for 12 months

Time (months) ........................ 0 ................. 12 ....... Significance ...... Normal Range
Total hair per cm^2 .............. 256 ............. 248 ............ NS ................ (256 - 359)
Non-vellus hair per cm^2 ..... 174 ............. 158 ............ NS ................ (232 - 325)
Testosterone (nmol/L) .......... 15.0 ............ 14.0 ........... NS ............... (10.0 - 35.0)
DHT (nmol/L) ......................... 1.42 ............ 0.85 ......... p<0.01 ........... (1.3 - 2.5)

vs

Objective: The effects on scalp and serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) of different doses of a novel topical solution of 0.25% finasteride (P-3074), a type 2 5α-reductase, were investigated in men with androgenetic alopecia. Methods: Two randomized, parallel-group studies were conducted. Study I: 18 men received 1 mL (2.275 mg) P-3074, applied to the scalp once a day (o.d.) or twice a day (b.i.d), or 1 mg oral tablet o.d. for 1 week. Study II: 32 men received P-3074 at the dose of 100 (0.2275 mg), 200 (0.455 mg), 300 (0.6285 mg), or 400 (0.91 mg) μL or the vehicle o.d. for 1 week. Scalp and serum DHT and serum testosterone were evaluated at baseline and treatment end. Results: Change from baseline in scalp DHT was -70% for P-3074 o.d. and approx. -50% for P-3074 b.i.d. and the tablet. Serum DHT decreased by 60 - 70%. The doses of 100 and 200 μL P-3074 resulted in a -47/-52% scalp DHT reduction, similar to the 300 and 400 μL doses (i.e., -37/-54%). A -5.6% inhibition was observed for the vehicle. Serum DHT was reduced by only -24/-26% with 100 and 200 μL P-3074 and by -44/-48% with 300 and 400 μL P-3074. No relevant changes occurred for serum testosterone. Conclusions: The novel finasteride 0.25% solution applied o.d. at the doses of 100 and 200 μL results in an appropriate inhibition of scalp DHT potentially minimizing the untoward sexual side-effects linked to a systemic DHT reduction.



https://www.researchgate.net/public...one_in_healthy_men_with_androgenetic_alopecia

 

[9982]

Welp I better never stop taking it I guess

Try topical

 

[Tommybommy1363]

Try topical

Hell no im never stopping propecia unless I start taking avodart

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

im considering dermarolling (1xper week) + finasteride (topical) + minoxidil + rosemary oil

im pretty sure there exist thread to this topic already

if you dermaroll more finasteride probably goes systematic though

 

[9982]

Hell no im never stopping propecia unless I start taking avodart

Why? The studies suggest that oral is unnecessary if you use topical. Serum DHT is not as affected as it is with oral. But lower scalp DHT is achieved

 

[Tommybommy1363]

Why? The studies suggest that oral is unnecessary if you use topical. Serum DHT is not as affected as it is with oral. But lower scalp DHT is achieved

Topical does not have a large double blind control demonstrating efficacy or 3 phase fda approval. Oral is tried and true. Plus it’s been working great without side effects

 

[9982]

Topical does not have a large double blind control demonstrating efficacy or 3 phase fda approval. Oral is tried and true. Plus it’s been working great without side effects

It's just because you said "welp" like you had concerns.
Never mind.

 

[Manochoice]

im considering dermarolling (1xper week) + finasteride (topical) + minoxidil + rosemary oil

im pretty sure there exist thread to this topic already

if you dermaroll more finasteride probably goes systematic though

Let us know how it goes

 

[couldntthinkofaname]

Let us know how it goes

systematic

 

[BetaBoy]

The research indicates that only 25% goes systemic compared to 70%. I was just reading one here

If as much as 25% is going systemic then it is going to have the same safety profile as oral finasteride, we will see just as many people complaining that their dick fell off.

 

[reyl]

Weren't the rats given an insane dosage? Like compared to a human it would be as if you were taking 50g+ of finasteride everyday.

 

[Bigbone]

Weren't the rats given an insane dosage? Like compared to a human it would be as if you were taking 50g+ of finasteride everyday.

There was a study that gave them high doses, I can't remember what the conclusion was though. Rats also grow tons of hair from various treatments that doesn't grow a single one in humans. We're not the same.

I couldn't find a single source in this article. Where did he find out about the upcoming study from the University of Boston?

 

[Manochoice]

Many things happened to the rats on very high dose of Fina including Peyronie's.