Do You Think My Homemade Minoxidil Solution Will Work?

[Kirkland13]

There’s a bunch of them. They’re all based in Shaanxi, China. Xi’an Lyphar Biotech is one of the biggest.

Most consumer grade grinder/pulverizers are rated to produce 300 mesh. Like I said, my little Krupa grinder creates a super fine powder out of most things. Don’t know the exact mesh size.

 

[biffcake]

There’s a bunch of them. They’re all based in Shaanxi, China. Xi’an Lyphar Biotech is one of the biggest.

Most consumer grade grinder/pulverizers are rated to produce 300 mesh. Like I said, my little Krupa grinder creates a super fine powder out of most things. Don’t know the exact mesh size.

I preformed your test on running sugar through a coffee grinder and it does produce a powder, but if you put some on your fingers and rub them together, you can still feel some grittiness. The grinder I used is pretty old, but I doubt that makes too much of a difference. I'm going to buy some 300 mesh screens and see if the powder created can be sifted through it.

 

[Kirkland13]

@biffcake - Very cool. I ordered some materials to experiment as well. More specifically, some 200-300 mesh minoxidil and 80 mesh minoxidil.

Interesting to learn that Dr. Lee refined down to 25 microns. I couldn't find that info on his archived site, but if you have a link, I'd be interested to check it out! 25 microns is pretty extreme... Theoretically, we can't even see that size, and I honestly don't know if any consumer level product can refine down to that size. But it's still worth trying with slightly larger sizes. \_(ツ)_/¯

Here's a relatively inexpensive 25 micron screen via Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Various-Screens-12-pack-Essential-Concentrate/dp/B0727NB74N/

Though I'll probably start out with this 55 micron size screen:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KWFQLZA

And for anyone reading along that's puzzled by all things 'mesh' & 'micron' sized, here's helpful chart:

https://www.netafimusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Mesh-vs-Micron.pdf

 

[biffcake]

@biffcake - Very cool. I ordered some materials to experiment as well. More specifically, some 200-300 mesh minoxidil and 80 mesh minoxidil.

Interesting to learn that Dr. Lee refined down to 25 microns. I couldn't find that info on his archived site, but if you have a link, I'd be interested to check it out! 25 microns is pretty extreme... Theoretically, we can't even see that size, and I honestly don't know if any consumer level product can refine down to that size. But it's still worth trying with slightly larger sizes. \_(ツ)_/¯

Here's a relatively inexpensive 25 micron screen via Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Various-Screens-12-pack-Essential-Concentrate/dp/B0727NB74N/

Though I'll probably start out with this 55 micron size screen:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KWFQLZA

And for anyone reading along that's puzzled by all things 'mesh' & 'micron' sized, here's helpful chart:

https://www.netafimusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Mesh-vs-Micron.pdf

I just realized this is for 12.5% minoxidil lotion. Maybe the minoxidil has to be super small to be put in a lotion because there isn't any alcohol in it to dissolve it. Maybe you can get away with bigger particles sizes when using an acidified alcohol and glycerin vehicle.

Q. You indicate that the minoxidil used in Xandrox 12.5% is micronized. What does this mean, and why is it done?

A. The type of minoxidil crystals used in 2% - 5% minoxidil solutions are coarse and hard, similar to table salt. Costly precision equipment at Regrowth's compounding lab is used to pulverize these crystals so they are approximately 25 micron in size (similar to talcum powder). Micronization results in improved dissolution, and in a smooth lotion which, because it is heat activated, is better absorbed as evidenced by an almost total lack of residue where it is applied.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20060617171903/http://xandrox.com/12faq.htm

 

[biffcake]

I received the 55 micron mesh today and was able to sift about 90% of the ground sugar through it. The grittiness of the sifted sugar was gone and all that was left was a fine powder. I will be ordering some minoxidil powder to see if 55 microns is small enough the dissolve.

 

[biffcake]

Very exciting stuff guys, keep us updated on your progress please!

Would it be helpful if you guys got your hands on some original Xandrox to compare with your own? Or would the expiration make it useless?

It could help for comparisons on color, viscosity, drying time, and things like that, but those characteristics are already pretty well known about Xandrox. Also, if the product is expired, those characteristics may have changed. I'm not sure what the stability of a minoxidil solution is passed its expiration. Are you asking because you have some?

 

[biffcake]

I tried to sift some of the sugar through a 25 micron screen and none of it would go through, so 25 microns is not feasible. Hopefully around 50 microns is small enough. It is more than 3 times smaller than standard minoxidil powder.

 

[biffcake]

Will you be trying to make an 80% ethanol and 20% glycerin minoxidil compound with this minoxidil power in the vein of Xandrox? I'm curious to see if the minoxidil won't clutter up this time like you mentioned before. Could the tremendous results the original Xandrox gave as opposed to similar products simply have been because of extremely fine microns which no other company used?

Yes, that is going to be the first vehicle I test when I get the minoxidil powder. That could be why it worked so well. I'm not sure what micron size was used in the original Xandrox. As I stated above, the 12.5% lotion uses 25 micron, but there are no solvents in the lotion, so that micron size might only be necessary for a lotion based minoxidil, Liquid minoxidil will have ethanol, glycerin, azelaic acid, phosphoric acid, and will be heated, all of which will help to make the minoxidil soluble, so 55 microns may be small enough. I would be surprised if this works though. It seems way too easy to just run minoxidil through a coffee grinder. If that is all you had to do, you would think more people would be manufacturing higher percentage minoxidil solutions.

 

[Kirkland13]

Attached is a picture of my Dr. Lee Xandrox clone. I compounded a 15% minoxidil, 5% azelaic acid, and .1% finasteride topical in a 20% glycerin / 80% ethanol vehicle with a little bit of citric acid as a PH adjuster. I followed the instructions in Dr. Lee’s patent meticulously and it worked like a charm.

 

[biffcake]

Attached is a picture of my Dr. Lee Xandrox clone. I compounded a 15% minoxidil, 5% azelaic acid, and .1% finasteride topical in a 20% glycerin / 80% ethanol vehicle with a little bit of citric acid as a PH adjuster. I followed the instructions in Dr. Lee’s patent meticulously and it worked like a charm.

Awesome. Was that using the 300 mesh minoxidil?

 

[Kirkland13]

Awesome. Was that using the 300 mesh minoxidil?

Yeah 300 mesh or greater. I realized mesh size really matters because my first attempt failed using a basic grinder. The minoxidil didn’t clump up, but the minoxidil + glycerin base was a sugar-like glaze. I could still see some of the minoxidil crystals. This produced a thick cloudy solution where the minoxidil crystals would eventually settle to the bottom. I'm not 100% sure if the minoxidil powder wasn’t pulverized fine enough or that I added the minoxidil powder to the glycerin too quickly.
But I didn't wanna waste anymore 200 proof 100% pure ethanol (this sh*t is expensive) so I ditched the coffee grinder/ sieve approach because it was messy and impractical to filter. So I got this inexpensive pulverizer off Amazon that claims to produce 300 mesh, but I think it grinds even finer the longer you use it. I used it for like 5 minutes straight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MM9K6K3/

Once I used minoxidil powder from this grinder, and re-attempted, this produced a thick white “slurry” (as Dr. Lee refereed to it) that looked kinda like Elmer’s glue. Wearing gloves, I sampled some of it and rubbed it between my fingers. I couldn’t feel any crystals leading me to believe this attempt was successful. I let the slurry cool some, then added in the ethanol and set the hotplate to about 38 degrees C. Adjusted the PH with citric acid. However, the solution still looked kinda milky and barely opaque. I thought I failed again. But as I kept stirring and brought the temperature down a bit, the solution suddenly became completely clear looking and smelling like most OTC minoxidil solutions (Rogaine, Kirkland, etc.). Except mine had a slightly amber tint to it just like Dr. Lee mentions in his patent.

Adding in most co-agents like azeliac acid and finasteride is relatively easy as they are highly soluble in ethanol. Getting the minoxidil to completely dissolve into the glycerin is the tricky part.

 

[Kirkland13]

Awesome. Was that using the 300 mesh minoxidil?

Just to clarify, I ordered some "300" mesh from some supplier off Alibaba. But they were kinda shady, and I ended up cancelling the order and getting my $ back. (Alibaba is pretty good in that regard)

I ordered 100 grams from Lyphar Biotech who do a ton a business and have a lot of positive reviews. They claim their minoxidil is 80 mesh, but I think its actually finer than that. Probably closer to 150-200 mesh. Still needed to grind it down.

 

[biffcake]

Yeah 300 mesh or greater. I realized mesh size really matters because my first attempt failed using a basic grinder. The minoxidil didn’t clump up, but the minoxidil + glycerin base was a sugar-like glaze. I could still see some of the minoxidil crystals. This produced a thick cloudy solution where the minoxidil crystals would eventually settle to the bottom. I'm not 100% sure if the minoxidil powder wasn’t pulverized fine enough or that I added the minoxidil powder to the glycerin too quickly.
But I didn't wanna waste anymore 200 proof 100% pure ethanol (this sh*t is expensive) so I ditched the coffee grinder/ sieve approach because it was messy and impractical to filter. So I got this inexpensive pulverizer off Amazon that claims to produce 300 mesh, but I think it grinds even finer the longer you use it. I used it for like 5 minutes straight: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MM9K6K3/

Once I used minoxidil powder from this grinder, and re-attempted, this produced a thick white “slurry” (as Dr. Lee refereed to it) that looked kinda like Elmer’s glue. Wearing gloves, I sampled some of it and rubbed it between my fingers. I couldn’t feel any crystals leading me to believe this attempt was successful. I let the slurry cool some, then added in the ethanol and set the hotplate to about 38 degrees C. Adjusted the PH with citric acid. However, the solution still looked kinda milky and barely opaque. I thought I failed again. But as I kept stirring and brought the temperature down a bit, the solution suddenly became completely clear looking and smelling like most OTC minoxidil solutions (Rogaine, Kirkland, etc.). Except mine had a slightly amber tint to it just like Dr. Lee mentions in his patent.

Adding in most co-agents like azeliac acid and finasteride is relatively easy as they are highly soluble in ethanol. Getting the minoxidil to completely dissolve into the glycerin is the tricky part.

Could you take pictures next time showing what the minoxidil solution should look like at each stage? I ran the minoxiidil powder through the coffee grinder and sifted out 10g of 55 micron powder to make a 10% solution to start out with and it still did not fully dissolve. It was a mild yellow color but still had a bit of powder settling on the bottom after I stopped stirring. It was also not transparent.

 

[Kirkland13]

Could you take pictures next time showing what the minoxidil solution should look like at each stage? I ran the minoxiidil powder through the coffee grinder and sifted out 10g of 55 micron powder to make a 10% solution to start out with and it still did not fully dissolve. It was a mild yellow color but still had a bit of powder settling on the bottom after I stopped stirring. It was also not transparent.

yeah no doubt. I’m running a little low on ethanol so might be a minute. I made 3 batches so far. First one failed like I mentioned.

 

[biffcake]

I think I may have found the problem. I tried mixing up the minoxidil this time without the azelaic acid and the solution became clear with no powder on the bottom. I then tried to add the azelaic acid, it turned cloudy and now there is powder (presumably the azelaic acid) sitting at the bottom. I tried to dissolve a small amount of azelaic acid into some pure ethanol and there was crystals left at the bottom as well. Maybe I got a bad batch of azelaic acid.

 

[Kirkland13]

oh that's weird. totally possible that the azelaic acid is bad or a different compound. if you still have those 55 micron sieves, you can probably filter it out of the solution and salvage the compounded minoxidil.

 

[biffcake]

oh that's weird. totally possible that the azelaic acid is bad or a different compound. if you still have those 55 micron sieves, you can probably filter it out of the solution and salvage the compounded minoxidil.

What is the consistency of your solution? Mine is pretty watery, which makes sense because it's 80% ethanol, but wasn't the original Xandrox thick and sticky?

 

[Kirkland13]

Some Xandrox formulas contained PG, so I suppose it's not exactly a one shoe-size fits all comparison, but in a bottle mine appears watery because it's a liquid and translucent, but once I apply it to my skin it feels sticky and thick. The thickness comes from the glycerin. Once it dries, the minoxidil can feel pasty. I recently got some Dualgen 15 for comparison, and they appear very similar.

 

[biffcake]

Some Xandrox formulas contained PG, so I suppose it's not exactly a one shoe-size fits all comparison, but in a bottle mine appears watery because it's a liquid and translucent, but once I apply it to my skin it feels sticky and thick. The thickness comes from the glycerin. Once it dries, the minoxidil can feel pasty. I recently got some Dualgen 15 for comparison, and they appear very similar.

Did you just use any glycerin or does it have be lab grade? My solution has only a mild tacky feeling. The only difference between our solutions is a small variation in minoxidil mesh size and azelaic acid. I doubt the small difference in particle size would effect the consistency very much, so it may be the azelaic acid. I'm going to hold off on buying more materials for now until I see how long it takes the solution to crystallize or if it crystallizes at all.

 

[Kirkland13]

Did you just use any glycerin or does it have be lab grade? My solution has only a mild tacky feeling. The only difference between our solutions is a small variation in minoxidil mesh size and azelaic acid. I doubt the small difference in particle size would effect the consistency very much, so it may be the azelaic acid. I'm going to hold off on buying more materials for now until I see how long it takes the solution to crystallize or if it crystallizes at all.

Doesn’t really matter what kind of glycerin you use. You can actually easily make it yourself. But it’s really cheap. I used glycerin that I bought from CVS. It cost $4.

“Lab grade” simply guarantees no impurities or a certain threshold floor. You might use lab grade if you were making a commercial product, but for something like this there’s really no point. You’ll just end up over paying.

The solution should maintain its current viscosity and stability as long as the correct PH was achieved. Also- it’s important that 100% 200 proof pure non-denatured ethanol is used. Any denaturing agents, aside from their obvious toxic health hazards they pose, will affect the stability of the solution.