Does ANYTHING grow back temple hair?
- Thread starter BG Guy
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
minoxidil?
Felk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 4
viperfish said:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... SGDBTABLE=
I found that thread over at HLH, and was interested. I hope someone here can back it up, but it looks like flutamide isn't too dangerous then.
This was the bit that particularly interested me, your email from genhair:
" "The only *relevant* study of topical flutamide is the one that shows 16% of topical flutamide is systemically absorbed in humans over 50% stays on the skin surface. If we apply 2 ml of a 2% flutamide solution, we might get a whopping 6.4 mg ending up in the bloodstream. Now consider that 750 mg of *oral* flutamide is considered well-tolerated in men."
Genhair "
bryan and I saw a study which proves that if you put flutamide on your scalp, you might as well swallow the pill. but Bryan got an email from a friend of his who did that, and it almost killed him. he could not get out of bed for a while. so if you are going to put flutamide on your head, calculate 1-2mL x 5% x 50+% absorbed = 25-60mg absorbed. Then take 25mg orally. Since a pill is 750mg, you need 1/30th of a pill. That means dissolve it in something, probably fat soluble like oil, leave the filler since you can't get it out, and then use a dropper to get 1/30 out per day orally. This will save you a mess in your hair, though I don't recommend anyone use flutamide orally or topically.
researchers put flutamide on one flank organ of hampsters and noted that both flank organs shrank an equal amount. They used varried doses, and at very low doses neither flank shrank and at every dose they shrank the same amount up to the maximum dose.
flank organs are a gold standard for androgen blocking because they get bigger when you apply more androgens, and smaller when you block the androgens.
now maybe hampsters metabolise flutamide differently than humans, but there was another study with humans. In just 6 hours after application, only 50% of flutamide was still on the skin, and 16% was still in the urine samples. The rest was unaccounted for. Perhaps it was in the skin, perhaps it was somewhere else in the body. I don't know now long it takes sebum glands to shrink. It would be very informative to see if they all shrunk the same amount compared to where they where the flutamide was applied.
researchers put flutamide on one flank organ of hampsters and noted that both flank organs shrank an equal amount. They used varried doses, and at very low doses neither flank shrank and at every dose they shrank the same amount up to the maximum dose.
flank organs are a gold standard for androgen blocking because they get bigger when you apply more androgens, and smaller when you block the androgens.
now maybe hampsters metabolise flutamide differently than humans, but there was another study with humans. In just 6 hours after application, only 50% of flutamide was still on the skin, and 16% was still in the urine samples. The rest was unaccounted for. Perhaps it was in the skin, perhaps it was somewhere else in the body. I don't know now long it takes sebum glands to shrink. It would be very informative to see if they all shrunk the same amount compared to where they where the flutamide was applied.
westcovinajoe
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
I heard Chick Norris holds the answer.
Joe.
Joe.
viperfish
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 2
Here is one study proving that flutamide is well tolerated in men. Note that 750 mg/day were administered and that the drug was well tolerated. Again if you were to use topical flutamide your talking, about 4-6 mgs being absorbed systematically. I really think there is nothing to fear here.
1: J Androl. 1991 Nov-Dec;12(6):376-80. Links
Response of prostate volume, prostate-specific antigen, and testosterone to flutamide in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia.Stone NN, Clejan SJ.
Department of Urology, Mt. Sinai School of Medicine, New York, New York.
Patients diagnosed as having benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) had determination of prostate volume (PV), prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and serum testosterone before consideration for entry into a double-blind, randomized trial of flutamide (750 mg/day for 6 months). The mean PSA level for these patients (N = 43) was 7.6 ng/ml (range: 1.0 to 45.7), and the mean PV was 76.8 cm3 (range: 24 to 198). Linear regression analysis demonstrated a strong correlation between the two (r = 0.876, P less than 0.05). Every 10 cm3 of prostate volume accounted for 1.02 ng/ml of PSA in the serum. Twenty-two patients (11 treated with flutamide, 11 with a placebo) agreed to enter the study. Prostate volume decreased by 35% and PSA by 65% (P less than 0.001) within 6 months. These changes occurred despite a 58.3% increase in serum testosterone levels (P less than 0.01). Patients treated with a placebo experienced no significant changes. Side effects were minimal, and flutamide was well tolerated. These data suggest that androgen deprivation therapy with flutamide may be an effective and safe treatment for BPH.
PMID: 1722793 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: J Androl. 1991 Nov-Dec;12(6):376-80. Links
Response of prostate volume, prostate-specific antigen, and testosterone to flutamide in men with benign prostatic hyperplasia.Stone NN, Clejan SJ.
Department of Urology, Mt. Sinai School of Medicine, New York, New York.
Patients diagnosed as having benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) had determination of prostate volume (PV), prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and serum testosterone before consideration for entry into a double-blind, randomized trial of flutamide (750 mg/day for 6 months). The mean PSA level for these patients (N = 43) was 7.6 ng/ml (range: 1.0 to 45.7), and the mean PV was 76.8 cm3 (range: 24 to 198). Linear regression analysis demonstrated a strong correlation between the two (r = 0.876, P less than 0.05). Every 10 cm3 of prostate volume accounted for 1.02 ng/ml of PSA in the serum. Twenty-two patients (11 treated with flutamide, 11 with a placebo) agreed to enter the study. Prostate volume decreased by 35% and PSA by 65% (P less than 0.001) within 6 months. These changes occurred despite a 58.3% increase in serum testosterone levels (P less than 0.01). Patients treated with a placebo experienced no significant changes. Side effects were minimal, and flutamide was well tolerated. These data suggest that androgen deprivation therapy with flutamide may be an effective and safe treatment for BPH.
PMID: 1722793 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I did not say it is not well tolerated. Nor did I mean swallowing an entire pill is equivalent to the topical. I just meant if you swallow the amount that was absorbed through your skin, you will get the same effect and save money on the amount on your skin and not have the cosmetic issues of applying a cream. Yes, at low doses it is very safe, and at 750mg/day, it is still not that harmful, as it is better than cancer.
It's androgenic side effects would be like taking propecia, except instead of getting less DHT binding to androgen receptors, they would get less testosterone as well. It is not a 5ar blocker, but a receptor blocker, but the androgenic side effects should be similar if you get any. I doubt most people would, since they don't get any from propecia, though there is the blocked testosterone everywhere in your body as well, so that would affect areas with 5ar1 as wells as areas with 5ar2 as well as areas with neither that just use testosterone, whereas propecia only affects areas with 5ar2.
Felk, that was not a typo. Placebo was put on the other flank organ, and they both shrank equally at all doses, proving that the effect was purely systemic, not local. Cypritone affected one organ slightly more than the other, showing a slight local effect and a primarilly systemic effect. spironolactone only affected one organ. There have been tests where it was applied to half the surface area of a human body with no internal effects. The reason is spironolactone is powerful, but is quickly metabolised in the body into a very very week anti-androgen, and has no internal strength except at high oral doses. Flutamide is a weak anti-androgen and is metabolised internally into hydroxyflutamide, an stronger anti-androgen that has a long half life.
Bryan has posted this many times. I'll find it for you again.
It's androgenic side effects would be like taking propecia, except instead of getting less DHT binding to androgen receptors, they would get less testosterone as well. It is not a 5ar blocker, but a receptor blocker, but the androgenic side effects should be similar if you get any. I doubt most people would, since they don't get any from propecia, though there is the blocked testosterone everywhere in your body as well, so that would affect areas with 5ar1 as wells as areas with 5ar2 as well as areas with neither that just use testosterone, whereas propecia only affects areas with 5ar2.
Felk, that was not a typo. Placebo was put on the other flank organ, and they both shrank equally at all doses, proving that the effect was purely systemic, not local. Cypritone affected one organ slightly more than the other, showing a slight local effect and a primarilly systemic effect. spironolactone only affected one organ. There have been tests where it was applied to half the surface area of a human body with no internal effects. The reason is spironolactone is powerful, but is quickly metabolised in the body into a very very week anti-androgen, and has no internal strength except at high oral doses. Flutamide is a weak anti-androgen and is metabolised internally into hydroxyflutamide, an stronger anti-androgen that has a long half life.
Bryan has posted this many times. I'll find it for you again.
Yeah, because hydroxy flutamide is stronger than spironolactone's metabolite, internal flutamide works stronger at a lower dose than internal spironolactone, so everyone thinks flutamide is a stronger anti-androgen, when it is so weak there is no local effect.
- Reaction score
- 42
I've put that study on my Get List, because I have trouble believing that men could take 750 mg/day of flutamide for six months without side-effects. Not even SEXUAL side-effects?? Come on...
That is completely, totally at odds with maneless' well-known experiment. He took that same dose of flutamide, and became very very sick within a short period of time. Near the end, he said he could barely crawl out of bed, just to go to the bathroom. It was very bad for him.
Bryan
That is completely, totally at odds with maneless' well-known experiment. He took that same dose of flutamide, and became very very sick within a short period of time. Near the end, he said he could barely crawl out of bed, just to go to the bathroom. It was very bad for him.
Bryan