Does finasteride really stop working at the 5-6 year mark?

[kalbo]

The studies done mostly end at the 5 year mark and I've read a few comments from people saying that it stopped working for them after 5-6 years. Is this really true? Does finasteride (or any dht inhibitor) stop working after a certain amount of time?

btw, sorry if this topic has been discussed numerous times before. I did a search and couldn't find much relating to this.

 

[CCS]

male pattern baldness is a progressive condition, meaning no matter what you do, your follices will produce more 5ar2 to make DHT and will have more androgen receptors to get affected by this. This is purely genetics and age determined, and is different for every person. You can get more sensitive every year, or stay at the same sensitivity for a while. If you look at the placebo group on my avator, you will see that they lose hair faster with time because their hairs are getting more sensitive.

Finasteride does not stop this process. It just reduces the production of DHT. If your follicles can handle the reduced amount, they will live. If they continue to get sensitive and eventually can't handle even that amount, you will find that finasteride is "no longer working for you". It does not stop hairloss in the very beginning for 17% of men, and many of them come here or just quit. When they quit, they loose the hair it had been protecting that whole time. A link to my avator is on myspace. You can find it or google image search: propecia year.

That 17% will grow over time as people age. That is why I am using more than just propecia in my regimen.

Also, men who bald before age 23 probably have aggressive hair loss and are much more likely to be in that 17%. Applunk 1 started dutasteride 0.5 mg per day 6 months after his hair started thinning. He has been battling it for two years with that and spironolactone and SODs and is still loosing the battle over his entire head. Bryan is probably 40 and regrew his hair just using Dr Proctors products without propecia, since his male pattern baldness is less aggressive.

Propecia is barely maintaining my hair. Since I did not get the average 90 hairs, I know it will fail me soon if I don't start fighting with other stuff now.

The only advantage young men have over older men is we are much less likely to get side effects because we have more testosterone.

 

[Felk]

It doesn't "stop working"

It's just finasteride mainly slows hairloss. It regrows for some, and maintains for most for a long time, but in the end it won't keep hair on your head forever.

The 5-year figure you've heard relates to the graph of haircounts made by Merck. At year 5, the average hair count is only 40 hairs more than baseline, so it appears on average hairs return to baseline just after year 5.

Everyone is different, however. It could regrow some hair on you then maintain it for over ten years, everyone responds differently.

 

[kalbo]

I see... so it doesn't "stop working" but is it safe to assume that the majority of users will eventually go back to where they started at the 5-7 year mark? The graphs clearly indicate that just after five years, users will have the same amount of hair they had pre-medication, and then will continue losing their hair.

So if this is true, wouldn't you say that merck isn't telling the whole truth when they claim it will at least maintain your current count for 90% of the male population?(I just checked their website, it used to 83%). If they were to be more truthful (which I don't expect them to be) they should say it just slows down hairloss for 90% of the users or that it maintains for the first five years, then the hair count slowly declines thereafter.

Oh well, I was hoping finasteride could maintain my hair for over 10 yrs, but I guess I'll just have to pray for hair cloning to come out (and be relatively affordable) within that time.

 

[CCS]

it is a good start, and will buy you a lot of time.

as for merk, they put this graph on their site, so they are not entirely dishonest.

 

[Guest]

The 5-year figure you've heard relates to the graph of haircounts made by Merck. At year 5, the average hair count is only 40 hairs more than baseline, so it appears on average hairs return to baseline just after year 5.y.

Felk,

I was looking at that 5 year chart from college's myspace.

Now it looks to me like at year 2 the average guy in the study was at about 90 hairs above baseline. This could just be me, but it looks like the graph is less steep between years 4 and 5 than it is between years 3 and 4. Am I the only one who sees this or are my eyes deceiving me? if it was less steep it would seem to indicate that the hair loss slows after 4 years and may eventually flatline for some people.

 

[HARM1]

CCS- how do you offer the Falicle gets more SENSETIVE? A TIME - BASED GEN KICKS IN AND MAKE THE FALICLE BE MORE STRONGLY DETECTED BY THE IMUNE SYSTEN AS A NON SELF BODY? COULD BE. But i think what happens is that prodaction of 5AR2 AND NUMBER OF RECEPTORS IS ELEVATED.

 

[CCS]

Both of those are determined by genetics. All of your genes are time based. How tall you are is time based.

 

[CCS]

jayman, I see the slope change too. men who's hairs can handle the 30% DHT will flatline, and men who's hairs can't will continue to lose hairs gradually and pull that average line down year after year. just depends on your genes. if 15% is too much for them, you have to use some dutasteride or some spironolactone.

 

[Guest]

jayman, I see the slope change too. men who's hairs can handle the 30% DHT will flatline, and men who's hairs can't will continue to lose hairs gradually and pull that average line down year after year. just depends on your genes. if 15% is too much for them, you have to use some dutasteride or some spironolactone.

Where'd the 15% come from? I agree with you totally by the way on what will happen

 

[CCS]

i just made up that number as an example. I should have used 30%. I just picked a random number I knew dutasteride could get under.

 

[Guest]

i just made up that number as an example. I should have used 30%. I just picked a random number I knew dutasteride could get under.

It just seems unbelievable to me that most balding men will eventually still bald/lose hair on dutasteride. Their follicles are so genetically weakened eventually that most balding men aren't even able to tolerate 15% of a normal level of DHT?

 

[HARM1]

Both of those are determined by genetics. All of your genes are time based. How tall you are is time based.

no, that can happen also in a " feedback" mecanisem of the cell. like other parts of the body. the falicle may be does not get enough DHT and so makes more 5ar and more receptors, just because of finasteride inhibiting it.

 

[CCS]

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/dutasteride2b.htm

I know 28 days is not convincing, but 5ar did not over react by going above baseline in these graphs. I saw other graphs with much higher doses for 90 days. DHT levels just go back to normal. They don't get high temporarily because of too much 5ar and then oscillate back to normal. Even the finasteride which climbs back the fastest. They did tests with up to 100mg single dose.

This does not prove it won't happen in 5 years, but it gives me confidence. I think the reason people lose a lot of hair fast when they get off propecia is all the hairs that have more androgen receptors or 5ar because of pure genetics no longer have the protection they need, and many hairs have gotten more sensitive during the time they were on the drug, so they die fast when they lose the protection.

Actually, these men would have higher DHT levels, but you must compare them to a placebo to know if the finasteride played a part in that. Bryan would know if any such studies were done, say, on the DHT levels of the men in the 5 year propecia study versus placebo when they took one part of the propecia group off propecia for a year.

Bryan, you out there?

 

[CCS]

if finasteride makes follicles produce more 5ar2 than normal, and they get off it and it stayed higher than normal, then even the hairs on the side of your head would go bald after you got off it. So if it does produce more 5ar2 while on it, then it gets rid of the excess fast when you get off it, since many people who got off finasteride after 4 years did not lose all the hair on the sides of their head. Am I right about that?

 

[ANDREW_J_I]

college do you beleive that by 5 years time there will be something much better than propecia and dutasteride out to combat hair loss? not really meaning HM but some sort of oral tablet perhaps even better than what we have now.

and is it just me, or is 40+ hairs over the baseline hardly anything???? am i missing sumthing? is that per square few inches or something?

 

[holyhair]

is there anyone that have used it for a longer period then 5 years on the forum?

 

[CCS]

andrew, it is per circular inch on the top of the head. That is 10% your total hair density.

holy hair,

a few people posted that it has worked good for 8 years for them. Who knows if they are typical or lucky. It really just depends on your genetics, and the younger you start balding, the worse your odds are.

Andrew, we have topicals that work very well in combo with dutasteride and in. I doubt any new internal drugs will do better.

 

[HARM1]

CCS, wht do you think that if the body made more DHT with finasteride, gairs on the side and back would fall off when finasteride was stopped?

 

[ANDREW_J_I]

andrew, it is per circular inch on the top of the head. That is 10% your total hair density.

holy hair,

a few people posted that it has worked good for 8 years for them. Who knows if they are typical or lucky. It really just depends on your genetics, and the younger you start balding, the worse your odds are.

Andrew, we have topicals that work very well in combo with dutasteride and in. I doubt any new internal drugs will do better.

cheers for answering that. i was thinking 40 extra hairs, thas nuffin spectacular. lol.

After reading that intercyclex reply yesterday, i aint as optimistic that HM will even ever come out, especially in the near future.