Does finasteride really stop working at the 5-6 year mark?

[CCS]

harm1,

every follicle has its limit. Body hairs shrink below a certain level, and head hairs shrink above a certain level. the hairs on the sides of your head are shrinking right now to a small degree. if you made them produce more DHT, and stopped propecia, and they kept making more for a while like you said finasteride might make balding hairs do, then the hairs on the sides of your head would thin. i think i am just repeating my last post.

Before asking me to explain myself again, first explain, point by point, why you think this would not happen to the sides but might happen to the top.

 

[HARM1]

harm1,

every follicle has its limit. Body hairs shrink below a certain level, and head hairs shrink above a certain level. the hairs on the sides of your head are shrinking right now to a small degree. if you made them produce more DHT, and stopped propecia, and they kept making more for a while like you said finasteride might make balding hairs do, then the hairs on the sides of your head would thin. i think i am just repeating my last post.

Before asking me to explain myself again, first explain, point by point, why you think this would not happen to the sides but might happen to the top.

Well as I see things donor area parts do not express the genes that make the emune system attack them when dht is recpted by them, no matter the level of DHT.

 

[CCS]

it is a well known fact that the donor areas do get thinner over time. just look at any man over 50. Maybe years of androgens had nothing to do with it, and maybe there are not more receptors. There could be another mechanism. But until I see proof to the contrary, i think these hairs are just much less sensitive to DHT. Most balding men never reach NW7, but some do. At the very least, androgens do not help these hairs. When I got on propecia, all my hairs, including the donor ones, got darker. Not a lot darker, but enough that many people were commenting on it.

 

[Bryan]

and is it just me, or is 40+ hairs over the baseline hardly anything???? am i missing sumthing?

DAY-AMN...some people are hard to please!

Don't be pissing and moaning that 40+ hairs over baseline is "hardly anything". The significance of that number is that it shows that YOU HAVEN'T LOST ANY HAIR since you started. Be grateful for that, and treat any extra growth that you do get as a bonus.

Bryan

 

[CCS]

Well i want to grow 300 half inch vellus hairs per square inch out of my slick bald area, which does have a bunch of 1/16 inch vellus hairs. So I think I'm pickier than that guy. But it is a huge relief thinking I will at least keep my hair while my grafts grow out. I was really depressed when I thought my top would go by the time my front grafts grew out. Seems to be filling in on top now.

 

[Bryan]

It just seems unbelievable to me that most balding men will eventually still bald/lose hair on dutasteride. Their follicles are so genetically weakened eventually that most balding men aren't even able to tolerate 15% of a normal level of DHT?

Actually, I suspect that DHT levels within hair follicle cells are reduced to something like maybe 1% or 2% when using dutasteride. Of course, that doesn't address the issue of other androgens besides DHT...

Bryan

 

[Guest]

It just seems unbelievable to me that most balding men will eventually still bald/lose hair on dutasteride. Their follicles are so genetically weakened eventually that most balding men aren't even able to tolerate 15% of a normal level of DHT?

Actually, I suspect that DHT levels within hair follicle cells are reduced to something like maybe 1% or 2% when using dutasteride. Of course, that doesn't address the issue of other androgens besides DHT...

Bryan

NOW that's what I'm talking about Bryan!

Let's talk about the OTHER androgens besides DHT that we need to take care of. We know that DHT is not the only cause of baldness so what other androgens are at work here? And how can we reduce their effect on the follicles?

 

[Bryan]

NOW that's what I'm talking about Bryan!

Let's talk about the OTHER androgens besides DHT that we need to take care of. We know that DHT is not the only cause of baldness so what other androgens are at work here? And how can we reduce their effect on the follicles?

Well, testosterone would be an obvious candidate. It's too dangerous to use systemic antiandrogens, so all you can do is try to find a reasonably-effective topical one.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

NOW that's what I'm talking about Bryan!

Let's talk about the OTHER androgens besides DHT that we need to take care of. We know that DHT is not the only cause of baldness so what other androgens are at work here? And how can we reduce their effect on the follicles?

Well, testosterone would be an obvious candidate. It's too dangerous to use systemic antiandrogens, so all you can do is try to find a reasonably-effective topical one.

Bryan

Maybe a dumb question, but if dutasteride can increase testosterone levels in the body when it reduces dht, could the extra testosterone have an effect on hair loss?

And what topicals would you recommend? spironolactone? any others?

I do know people taking the spironolactone tablets orally, but you don't recommend that?

Thanks.

 

[Bryan]

Maybe a dumb question, but if dutasteride can increase testosterone levels in the body when it reduces dht, could the extra testosterone have an effect on hair loss?

Well, sure, a bit more testosterone would have a little more of an adverse effect on hair follicles, assuming that other androgens DO play a role in balding, as I believe they probably do. Of course, that doesn't mean that dutasteride would make hairloss WORSE, it just means that the remaining testosterone would be a limiting factor on what dutasteride can do.

And what topicals would you recommend? spironolactone? any others?

Whatever has a legitimate topical antiandrogenic effect. We've discussed a number of potential candidates over the years, including spironolactone.

I do know people taking the spironolactone tablets orally, but you don't recommend that?

Not unless you don't mind risking systemic side-effects.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

bryan,

you mean side effects like urinating more frequently and gynecomastia?

jayman

 

[Bryan]

Yes. Or Loss of libido.

 

[Guest]

Gotcha.

Are there any percentages on what frequency these effects occur in men like there are for the oral5ar inhibitors dutasteride, etc?

and can you give us ideas for other alternative androgen inhibitors besides spironolactone? Is there like a place to buy RU cheap online yet ready to use?

thanks.

 

[Felk]

People were asking your last question years ago unfortunately.

RU hasnt been made into a ready-to-use product, and i don't know if it ever will.

Its a raw powder, and very expensive. There's only one place i know of to get it, and its a chemical company in China.

I think $100 a month when you use 2 ml each day, according to the main recipe people use. So $50 if you use 1ml. Either way, very expensive.

 

[bubka]

is there anyone that have used it for a longer period then 5 years on the forum?

6 years plus and still going strong after initial regrowth, started at around 20

 

[bubka]

a few people posted that it has worked good for 8 years for them. Who knows if they are typical or lucky. It really just depends on your genetics, and the younger you start balding, the worse your odds are.

see i don't think you can get off saying that, it's my understanding that more aggressive male pattern baldness actually responds better to finasteride, rather than the slow male pattern baldness, so take mine as yours with a grain of salt as to who does better in the longrun on propecia

 

[beaner]

a few people posted that it has worked good for 8 years for them. Who knows if they are typical or lucky. It really just depends on your genetics, and the younger you start balding, the worse your odds are.

see i don't think you can get off saying that, it's my understanding that more aggressive male pattern baldness actually responds better to finasteride, rather than the slow male pattern baldness, so take mine as yours with a grain of salt as to who does better in the longrun on propecia

I can only speak from experience, but I've been losing hair steadily since high school, probably 16 years old. I didn't start hairloss treatments until I was in my 30's and well on my way to cueballdom..finasteride not until this year at 36...it has done absolute miracles on my hair in only 4.5 months and also gave minoxidil new life. At this point I am expecting to recover my hair to the point it was 10 years ago or better and plan to have as good of hair at 40 as I did at 25. This is just speculation based on what I've seen so far, and what I'm currenly seeing beginning to happen.....just keeping my fingers crossed at this point, but I'm getting little miracles where I was not expecting them.

 

[barnabas]

a few people posted that it has worked good for 8 years for them. Who knows if they are typical or lucky. It really just depends on your genetics, and the younger you start balding, the worse your odds are.

see i don't think you can get off saying that, it's my understanding that more aggressive male pattern baldness actually responds better to finasteride, rather than the slow male pattern baldness, so take mine as yours with a grain of salt as to who does better in the longrun on propecia

Yeah. I've seen tons of sources on the internet (such as baldingblog) saying it generally works much better on younger people, who have recently lost it. The odds of regrowth are less as you get older, and it's apparently best for people aged 20-30. His theory about "aggressiveness" making it not work for young people is seriously flawed based on...basically everything I've ever read. I've never seen his argument that it works better for older people anywhere else.

 

[holyhair]

is there anyone that have used it for a longer period then 5 years on the forum?

6 years plus and still going strong after initial regrowth, started at around 20

wow thats really cool...we need more positive posts like this...alot depression on this forum right now.

 

[bubka]

is there anyone that have used it for a longer period then 5 years on the forum?

6 years plus and still going strong after initial regrowth, started at around 20

wow thats really cool...we need more positive posts like this...alot depression on this forum right now.

unfortunately, most people are motivated and likely to search out on the internet and post when things are not going well, sad but true