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hellouser banned again? what happened?
Dr. John Cole Botched My Repair Surgeries: I Paid $36,000 with Zero Results.
- Thread starter arfy
- Start date
arfy
Established Member
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People who have had disappointing experience with Dr Cole - I can be contacted privately at "hair transplant disaster @ hotmail dot com". Shills and trolls, don't bother.
I'm especially interested in hearing from patients of Dr Cole who believe he didn't participate in the surgery, as much as they expected him to participate (in my case, he was away from the operating room for about half of my surgery). I saw another patient report that Dr Cole was only in the room for 25% of the time. I'd like to know how common that is.
Also, anyone who received phone calls from Dr Cole's clinic (one person told me that Cole's office called him to ask if he was interested surgery).
All contact is kept confidential. Thanks!
I'm especially interested in hearing from patients of Dr Cole who believe he didn't participate in the surgery, as much as they expected him to participate (in my case, he was away from the operating room for about half of my surgery). I saw another patient report that Dr Cole was only in the room for 25% of the time. I'd like to know how common that is.
Also, anyone who received phone calls from Dr Cole's clinic (one person told me that Cole's office called him to ask if he was interested surgery).
All contact is kept confidential. Thanks!
arfy
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 17
I have no idea what to do anymore. I don't have a lot of money to spend on more transplants -- it would cost a fortune to try to fix myself with more hair, and I'm not convinced that it would work out. I'm already $36,000 in the hole because of Dr Cole (the only doctor who couldn't grow hair on my head). Even if I won the lottery, it seems like a huge amount of money to gamble on options like "beard hair" hoping that in the end it will finally look "normal". I'm not convinced that coarse beard hair would be a good match with my other hair (which is thin and fine) and I worry that I would jump "out of the frying pan and into the fire." "Keep getting more surgery and then you can achieve your goals": one of the biggest lies I was told by Dr Puig's people. At what point does someone decide to stop wasting money on these crooks and liars? Everybody wants to pretend that there's always a happy solution for all the repair patients like me, but there's not. Half the patients at some clinics are there getting corrective work done, so of course everyone is encouraged to keep getting repair surgery (because the doctors really need the money!) but repair work doesn't always equal success.
I could also try to shave my head and get multiple laser resurfacing procedures done, and tattoo my scalp and hope that it doesn't look stupid - another expensive gamble with no assurance that I can look normal afterwards.
Hairpiece- no thanks. Doesn't fit my lifestyle at all.
All of the options suck.
I didn't expect Dr Cole to solve all my issues, I understood it would be a process, but his surgery was a COMPLETE RIPOFF, I'm down $36,000 and have lost the support of my family, and I don't trust any of the doctors any more.
One guy goes to Doctor #1 and gets a bad result, so he goes to Doctor #2 for corrective work. Meanwhile, a different guy goes to Dr #2 and gets a bad result, so he goes to Dr #1 for corrective work. This kind of thing is happening all the time! The whole industry seems like a merry-go-round of incompetence and lies.
- Reaction score
- 2,634
There's a thread where someone accused me of lying about Desmond84 being in moderation mode. Desmond84 HAS been and I think still is in moderation mode. Winston immediately came out to deny this. But I caught him with his pants down. Surprisingly, my comment 'Don't lie Winston' with a link to evidence got approved and made it into the thread, however it got pulled and Winston LOCKED the thread. It is this one:
http://tinyurl.com/oc4ktsk
Here's a screen shot of his comment:
Desmond84's original comment can be found in this link:
http://tinyurl.com/p2jh3at
So there you have it. Spencer Kobren's forum is not only CLEARLY censoring what's being said on the Bald Truth Talk forum, but they're also LYING.
BUSTED!
http://tinyurl.com/oc4ktsk
Here's a screen shot of his comment:
Desmond84's original comment can be found in this link:
http://tinyurl.com/p2jh3at
So there you have it. Spencer Kobren's forum is not only CLEARLY censoring what's being said on the Bald Truth Talk forum, but they're also LYING.
BUSTED!
Welcome back Hellouser! Yeah, BTT now just seems to be a forum for the ins and outs of hair transplantation despite the fact that we are all desperate for something newer and better. I do actually like Spencer better than some one like Spex. I don't mean to diss anybody but since these hair transplant advocates actually work for hair transplant surgeons, it is within their self-interest to talk about hair transplantation while giving literally no mention to newer and better potential treatments.
Spencer and Spex
Neither of these clowns you speak of have any value to having the best interest to ANY hair loss person and this is my own personal opinion. Why? Because both of these guys have not only have attacked me in the past (and i just WORK in the hair industry) but even more importantly... have contacted my employers to try to have me fired from my job (a potential lawsuit). Both of these guys called Dr. Ron Shapiro my friend and colleague of 8 years and still my friend and colleague. Why? Because Spencer thought I campaigned against him online building websites geared to disparage him. Nope not me. Spex is even worse because I have a slew of emails sent to a patient begging him to post on forums disparaging me. Which they did and later regretted it and sent every email exchange to me. So these guys decided to call my employer Ron Shapiro and try to hurt me. Meanwhile I am taking care of my girlfriend and raising 3 children, a dog, and a turtle. So to these guys they could care less if they destroyed my career or have me and my family thrown on the street... which they didn't. So that is my small contribution to the reality of what I consider to be a super shady industry.
I usually go by hairtech as my screen name. I am not a scum bag representative of a hair clinic. I don't try to coerce anyone into going to any particular clinic which includes my own. I know there are really good clinics out there and this is because I've worked for some of the best in the industry. I have fought against the bad of this industry for years... which has landed me banned on most of the larger forums out there. Why? Because I only speak the truth.
My specialty is FUE. I was on the ground floor of it back in 2002 at Cole's office. Arfy was correct about the history of this. But I took that experience and spread it to many physicians. That caused Cole to attempt to sue me federally. Me... a small technician. He lost. So yes I know much more about the industry from the inside and I will spill it all. The fact that Arfy courageously came out and methodically stated everything spurred my own anger again.
Neither of these clowns you speak of have any value to having the best interest to ANY hair loss person and this is my own personal opinion. Why? Because both of these guys have not only have attacked me in the past (and i just WORK in the hair industry) but even more importantly... have contacted my employers to try to have me fired from my job (a potential lawsuit). Both of these guys called Dr. Ron Shapiro my friend and colleague of 8 years and still my friend and colleague. Why? Because Spencer thought I campaigned against him online building websites geared to disparage him. Nope not me. Spex is even worse because I have a slew of emails sent to a patient begging him to post on forums disparaging me. Which they did and later regretted it and sent every email exchange to me. So these guys decided to call my employer Ron Shapiro and try to hurt me. Meanwhile I am taking care of my girlfriend and raising 3 children, a dog, and a turtle. So to these guys they could care less if they destroyed my career or have me and my family thrown on the street... which they didn't. So that is my small contribution to the reality of what I consider to be a super shady industry.
I usually go by hairtech as my screen name. I am not a scum bag representative of a hair clinic. I don't try to coerce anyone into going to any particular clinic which includes my own. I know there are really good clinics out there and this is because I've worked for some of the best in the industry. I have fought against the bad of this industry for years... which has landed me banned on most of the larger forums out there. Why? Because I only speak the truth.
My specialty is FUE. I was on the ground floor of it back in 2002 at Cole's office. Arfy was correct about the history of this. But I took that experience and spread it to many physicians. That caused Cole to attempt to sue me federally. Me... a small technician. He lost. So yes I know much more about the industry from the inside and I will spill it all. The fact that Arfy courageously came out and methodically stated everything spurred my own anger again.
arfy
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 17
Guys, I don't want this to turn into a Spencer-bashing thread.
One of the good things about the internet is that everything is archived. In another thread, Dr Cole said that "the world beat a path to his door to get FUE" (or words to that effect) and that he was forced to learn the procedure on the fly (or words to that effect). Except that's not how it happened at all -- Dr Cole held consultations in other cities, trying to drum up business. Dr Cole is also one of the biggest online self-promoters in the hair transplant industry. He has multiple employees posting on his behalf, as well as his own posts. If you go back and look at his FUE and BHT posts, especially the ones written before my surgery, they always have a positive slant, even when he is admitting that they are still learning things. He says that BHT can be used as a stand-alone procedure, that BHT is cosmetically significant, and that densities above 60/cm2 are viable.
Years later, he changed his tune on BHT - it's not really a stand-alone procedure, it's most-often NOT cosmetically significant, and that densities of 30/cm2 are preferred. But in the meantime, he already had taken my money (and the money of numerous other repair patients).
Dr Cole learned about BHT at the expense of patients like me. I paid $36,000 to be Dr Cole's guinea pig. Other guys -- all of us are repair patients! -- paid much more than me. I believe that what Dr Cole did borders on criminal.
- - - Updated - - -
Guys, please no more comments about Spencer or other websites - I don't want this thread to get locked.
One of the good things about the internet is that everything is archived. In another thread, Dr Cole said that "the world beat a path to his door to get FUE" (or words to that effect) and that he was forced to learn the procedure on the fly (or words to that effect). Except that's not how it happened at all -- Dr Cole held consultations in other cities, trying to drum up business. Dr Cole is also one of the biggest online self-promoters in the hair transplant industry. He has multiple employees posting on his behalf, as well as his own posts. If you go back and look at his FUE and BHT posts, especially the ones written before my surgery, they always have a positive slant, even when he is admitting that they are still learning things. He says that BHT can be used as a stand-alone procedure, that BHT is cosmetically significant, and that densities above 60/cm2 are viable.
Years later, he changed his tune on BHT - it's not really a stand-alone procedure, it's most-often NOT cosmetically significant, and that densities of 30/cm2 are preferred. But in the meantime, he already had taken my money (and the money of numerous other repair patients).
Dr Cole learned about BHT at the expense of patients like me. I paid $36,000 to be Dr Cole's guinea pig. Other guys -- all of us are repair patients! -- paid much more than me. I believe that what Dr Cole did borders on criminal.
- - - Updated - - -
Guys, please no more comments about Spencer or other websites - I don't want this thread to get locked.
This is what happened. The week in which I was hired by Cole he had literally come back from Dr. Woods office in Australia... you know him right? The other Narcissist (in my opinion) God's gift to FUE. Anyway, Woods was supposed to show Cole his technique... But Woods freaked out (hear say) and decided not to show Cole anything. Cole comes back home to Alpharetta, GA... outside of Atlanta and says to us technicians... we need to learn how to do FUE... So we ALL collaborated and put our heads together and started to engineer this technique. But initially there wasn't experimentation on patients per say. It was more like hey we are doing a strip on you can we try to take an extra 200 grafts around the strip for free. Of course everyone said yes and it was pain painstakingly slow in the beginning. 200 grafts was like hours and hours to obtain. In fact there was another doctor involved in this... Dr. Rose, who was edged out eventually by Cole because when we finally began to become efficient at FUE Cole decided to call it FIT or follicular isolation technique. So basically this is where FUE as we know it today began in the United States. There was no one else doing it in 2002 anywhere. And now 14 to 15 years later... everyone does it in some capacity and a robot was created. More to come soon on this story and this will eventually lead to Arfy and other "Arfy's".
Sorry to see your horrible experience. Just from the photos I guess you needed 8000 units to cover all that. What amazes me is I see no follicles in the photos that were put in. Also did they give you proper care for after the surgery? You have to keep the area moist for a few days until the scalp closes around each unit and they stay alive. It's normal for those new hairs to drop off within a month but then they grow back in a couple more after going through shock. It does not take a year to show results.
You certainly paid enough for a complete coverage by FUT, FUE was too new back then apparently. Maybe you could get a procedure done with beard hair now, they are able to use that now if nothing else is available.
You certainly paid enough for a complete coverage by FUT, FUE was too new back then apparently. Maybe you could get a procedure done with beard hair now, they are able to use that now if nothing else is available.
arfy
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 17
I remember that Dr Woods was criticized heavily (by basically everybody) for not sharing his FUE technique, but Woods said that he feared that doctors would apply a "hair mill" mentality to it, and that lots of doctors would not take the time to learn the technique (with small sessions over a long period of time) and would get the techs involved in doing a "conveyor belt" approach to surgery. I'm sorry to say that Dr Woods' concern appears to have an element of truth to it. I think we will see more and more guys with disappointing FUE results as FUE expands world-wide and some less-talented and less-ethical doctors jump on the FUE bandwagon.
I also remember when Dr Cole went to Australia to meet with Dr Woods. Dr Woods told me that Dr Cole wanted to partner with Dr Woods, and tried to sway him over with talk about how together they could make a fortune on FUE. Dr Woods isn't really motivated by money to the same extent - his practice was small when I was in Sydney, he only works on a small number of guys each month and that's it. He has an active life outside of medicine and doesn't seem to have world-wide ambitions. Dr Cole on the other hand seems to want to build a chain of clinics (he's tried to open clinics in Greece, Belgium, Korea and now supposedly Mexico if I am not mistaken). I think the "hair mill" approach (emphasis on marketing and salesmanship) is one of Dr Cole's problems. Dr Cole worked for MHR for a while. And in my opinion, that big franchise attitude is part of Dr Cole's mentality, and it's a problem. i wouldn't be surprised if Dr Woods was turned off by Dr Cole's focus on how profitable FUE could be, and that's why he turned Dr Cole down.
I would also like to state my opinion that Dr Cole has never invented anything, he is only trying to modify (and mass-market) the ideas that the Woods clinic invented.
steveo1218
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 12
Looking at Pics it does look like he did a lot crafts - was a large area to cover. If they had taken up you'd look ok. Obviously something has gone wrong with them taking up , I'm not a doctor so don't know why ? Weird they took hair from your legs as chest hair is so thicker my leg hairs are real thin and fine ...
i just had a hair transplant recently for 3000 grafts and must say i am very happy. i waited 7 years to do it. i researched everything and knew everything and what was involved and so no surgeon would catch me out with any crap medicinal language. needed to take my time. went to this fab clinic who have done a lot of famous people also blah blah but the prices were outrageous and dont get me wrong no one has a bad word to say about them but even the top guys in Belgium and other parts of europe wouldnt be charging the amount quoted so eventually i met this surgeon and what i like about him that there was no **** about him. told me as it is. he did all the surgery. very little talk from the staff but who were so nice and so professional. to do 3000 grafts was done in 2 days. 1st day was 12 hrs with breaks and 2nd day was 8 and back for a 3rd day to take off bandages and given a whole list of things to do along with antiboitics and painkillers prescription. had a follow up a week later to be sure all was good. and i have another follow up next month. all professional
Now when i read this i am very sorry to hear of your bad transplant mate and what you had to go through. jeez that was horrendous. it sickens me to see how it has affected you and how you must be feeling right now. i know anyone that does a hair transplant its a life changing experience and one that must make you feel better after not how this guy felt. if any surgeon was going to say i could get hair off your chest, back and leg, i would run a mile. i thank you for this post. i wouldn't wish it on anyone. yes personally if i had the money or not i wouldn't do any more mate and i think getting corrective laser on scalp and tattoo pigmentation on the scalp would be a far better bet. i know you would feel very apprehensive but i wish you well whatever you decide and that the future is bright for you down the road.
arfy
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 17
Thanks for the kind words, for those who expressed them...
I agree, there are unethical and incompetent doctors in other fields too. Probably the worst thing about hair transplant hacks and crooks is that if you get screwed up, you have to live with the results for the rest of your life, on the top of your head where everyone can see it. However, there are doctors who are responsible for patient's deaths, and that is obviously a worse problem. There are a lot of terrible doctors out there, IMO, and one of the problems with hair transplants is that literally anyone with a medical degree can legally perform them, without any specific training whatsoever. Because hair transplant aren't covered by insurance (no red tape or paperwork to deal with) and guys are willing to pay top dollar there are many doctors who are attracted to the business because it's considered easy money. It's a relatively safe and simple procedure (low risk of death), doctors are probably never "on call" with patients, every year there are more people just beginning to lose their hair, and patients' desperation about hair loss makes them 'easy pickings'.
There's a term for when doctors cause harm to patients: Iatrogenesis. I sometimes cringe when I see newbies talking about their plans for hair transplant like they have the whole process figured out, and it's gonna be a simple process. IMO, people should be much more cautious about elective cosmetic surgery, because things can take unexpected turns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis
Causes of iatrogenesis include:
• side effects of possible drug interactions
• chance[clarification needed]
• medical error*
• negligence*
• unexamined instrument design[clarification needed]
• anxiety or annoyance in the physician or treatment provider in relation to medical procedures or treatments
• unnecessary treatment for profit*
*what I believe happened to me, while under Dr Cole's care.
I agree, there are unethical and incompetent doctors in other fields too. Probably the worst thing about hair transplant hacks and crooks is that if you get screwed up, you have to live with the results for the rest of your life, on the top of your head where everyone can see it. However, there are doctors who are responsible for patient's deaths, and that is obviously a worse problem. There are a lot of terrible doctors out there, IMO, and one of the problems with hair transplants is that literally anyone with a medical degree can legally perform them, without any specific training whatsoever. Because hair transplant aren't covered by insurance (no red tape or paperwork to deal with) and guys are willing to pay top dollar there are many doctors who are attracted to the business because it's considered easy money. It's a relatively safe and simple procedure (low risk of death), doctors are probably never "on call" with patients, every year there are more people just beginning to lose their hair, and patients' desperation about hair loss makes them 'easy pickings'.
There's a term for when doctors cause harm to patients: Iatrogenesis. I sometimes cringe when I see newbies talking about their plans for hair transplant like they have the whole process figured out, and it's gonna be a simple process. IMO, people should be much more cautious about elective cosmetic surgery, because things can take unexpected turns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis
Causes of iatrogenesis include:
• side effects of possible drug interactions
• chance[clarification needed]
• medical error*
• negligence*
• unexamined instrument design[clarification needed]
• anxiety or annoyance in the physician or treatment provider in relation to medical procedures or treatments
• unnecessary treatment for profit*
*what I believe happened to me, while under Dr Cole's care.
arfy
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 17
Basically, Dr Cole said that he tried to recommend against a hair transplant but I insisted over his objections, and that doing the surgery (3 consecutive days of 1500 grafts) was my idea. That was a big lie. The tight schedule and size of the procedures was his idea completely. Anybody who knows anything at all about hair transplant knows that the patients don't boss the doctors around, and demand a certain number of grafts performed on a certain specific schedule. Especially if its a doctor with a big ego like Dr Cole.
Dr Cole also said that he gave me 2000 extra grafts at no charge (another big lie).
Dr Cole admits that his BHT procedures only have a 25% rate of "cosmetic improvement" (something like that). In other words, for the vast majority of patients, his version of BHT doesn't work. (Note - I had a mix of BHT and FUE from Dr Cole, and virtually none of the grafts grew. It wasn't just a BHT failure on Dr Cole's part). Anyway, even though Dr Cole admitted that his track record with BHT totally sucks, he still attacked me for coming forward as one of the many people who didn't get results and feels ripped off.