Dutasteride and Prostate Cancer

Old Baldy

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Bryan said:
Old Baldy said:
What is it about dutasteride. that makes the results so much safer?

Who sez dutasteride is any "safer" than finasteride?? The studies you posted on dutasteride were only short-term in vitro experiments showing that dutasteride has more potent antiandrogenic effects in prostate cancer cells than finasteride, which shouldn't exactly come as a huge surprise. However, that doesn't say anything about the central issue we're discussing here, which is the LONG-TERM use of such 5a-reductase inhibitors for the prevention of prostate cancer in men of all ages, and the bottom-line effect on mortality in each age group.

Bryan

Like Idoasis said, "that's all we have" right now. There's another long term study going on with finasteride. also.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/conte ... ?sitearea=

So, hopefully, we'll eventually know more.

Bryan: I thought the first study I posted took cells from cancer patients that were treated with finasteride. and dutasteride. and analyzed them after in vivo treatment?

Btw, thanks for your answers to my questions in the previous post.
 

Bryan

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IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
Concerning dutasteride ,it says high grade prostate cancer risk does not go up.

The treatment alteration effect score was doubled (P = 0.055) and did not correlate with any Gleason score changes

No, I wouldn't imagine it WOULD, over a period of only 1-3 months, and only 17 patients! :D

Bryan

Well ,true but that is all we have.

Another study is going on with Dutasteride to confirm it (if not finished by now).

It's obviously not going to be as large as the PCPT, so its results are unlikely to be as unequivocal.

IDOASIS said:
I truly believe dutasteride is safer than finasteride as far as sides and cancer

Why?

Bryan
 

IDOASIS

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Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
Concerning dutasteride ,it says high grade prostate cancer risk does not go up.

The treatment alteration effect score was doubled (P = 0.055) and did not correlate with any Gleason score changes

No, I wouldn't imagine it WOULD, over a period of only 1-3 months, and only 17 patients! :D

Bryan

Well ,true but that is all we have.

Another study is going on with Dutasteride to confirm it (if not finished by now).

It's obviously not going to be as large as the PCPT, so its results are unlikely to be as unequivocal.



Bryan

Why ,do you know how many participants are involved?

I think it will give us a better idea.



Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
I truly believe dutasteride is safer than finasteride as far as sides and cancer

Why?

Bryan

Well ,as far as sides,
From my experience with both of the drugs and studies.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Efficacy and safety of long-term treatment with the dual 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor dutasteride in men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia.

Debruyne F, Barkin J, van Erps P, Reis M, Tammela TL, Roehrborn C; ARIA3001, ARIA3002 and ARIB3003 Study Investigators.

426 Department of Urology, University Hospital Nijmegen, Geert Grooteplein 10, P.O. Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands. f.debruyne@uro.umcn.nl

OBJECTIVES: Dutasteride, a dual inhibitor of Type 1 and Type 2 5 alpha-reductase, has been shown to improve disease measures in patients with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) in three randomised, placebo-controlled, large-scale, 2-year Phase III clinical studies. This paper reports the pooled results of a 2-year open-label extension of the three randomised studies assessing the long-term efficacy and safety of dutasteride. METHODS: Patients randomised to dutasteride or placebo in the double-blind portion of the Phase III studies were eligible for a 2-year open-label extension, where all patients received dutasteride 0.5mg daily (dutasteride/dutasteride [D/D] group and placebo/dutasteride [P/D group]). RESULTS: Significant improvements in AUA-SI score and Q(max) were observed from Month 24 to 48 in both study groups. At Month 48, patients in the D/D group had significantly greater improvements in AUA-SI score and Q(max), and significantly greater reductions in prostate volume, than those in the P/D group. Acute urinary retention and BPH-related surgery occurred in a small percentage of patients during the open-label phase. No new safety issues were noted with long-term therapy. Onset of new drug-related adverse events were reported most frequently at the start of therapy and declined over time in patients receiving dutasteride. CONCLUSIONS: Long-term treatment with dutasteride results in continuing improvements in urinary symptoms and flow rate, and further reductions in TPV, in men with symptomatic BPH. The reduction in risk of AUR and BPH-related surgery, seen in the double-blind phase, was durable over 4-year treatment. Dutasteride was also well tolerated in long-term use.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... ewsid=7051

Additionally, long-term treatment resulted in a low incidence of drug-related side effects. The incidence of drug-related side effects decreased with duration of treatment. In year four, the most frequently observed drug-related side effects for men treated with Avodart for four years were: gynecomastia (breast enlargement and breast tenderness) (1%); impotence (0.4%); ejaculation disorders (0.1%).

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2002/21-319s1lbl.pdf

page 17.
As you can see the sides Decrease significantly over time.

Finasteride sides also decrease by time but less than Dutasteride.

http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/finas_ad.htm
 

Bryan

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Old Baldy said:
Bryan said:
[quote="Old Baldy":afd90]What is it about dutasteride. that makes the results so much safer?

Who sez dutasteride is any "safer" than finasteride?? The studies you posted on dutasteride were only short-term in vitro experiments showing that dutasteride has more potent antiandrogenic effects in prostate cancer cells than finasteride, which shouldn't exactly come as a huge surprise. However, that doesn't say anything about the central issue we're discussing here, which is the LONG-TERM use of such 5a-reductase inhibitors for the prevention of prostate cancer in men of all ages, and the bottom-line effect on mortality in each age group.

Like Idoasis said, "that's all we have" right now.[/quote:afd90]

If that's all we have, then we don't really have anything at all. In such a case, we should simply reserve judgement on the issue.

Old Baldy said:
Bryan: I thought the first study I posted took cells from cancer patients that were treated with finasteride. and dutasteride. and analyzed them after in vivo treatment?

You're right. I shouldn't have called it an in vitro study.

Bryan
 

Bryan

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IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
It's obviously not going to be as large as the PCPT, so its results are unlikely to be as unequivocal.

Why ,do you know how many participants are involved?

No, but do you really think it's going to be anywhere near as huge as the PCPT?

IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
I truly believe dutasteride is safer than finasteride as far as sides and cancer

Why?

Well ,as far as sides,
From my experience with both of the drugs and studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... ewsid=7051

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2002/21-319s1lbl.pdf

As you can see the sides Decrease significantly over time.

Finasteride sides also decrease by time but less than Dutasteride.

I hate to be a pain in the ***, but how do you KNOW that, if the studies didn't even make a direct comparison of the two drugs?

Bryan
 

IDOASIS

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Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
It's obviously not going to be as large as the PCPT, so its results are unlikely to be as unequivocal.

Why ,do you know how many participants are involved?

No, but do you really think it's going to be anywhere near as huge as the PCPT?

Bryan

I really don't know.
Why do you need to be so negative, it is obviously going to be
much bigger than before ,so it can give us a better idea on Dutasteride and cancer.








Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
Bryan said:
IDOASIS said:
I truly believe dutasteride is safer than finasteride as far as sides and cancer

Why?

Well ,as far as sides,
From my experience with both of the drugs and studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... ewsid=7051

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2002/21-319s1lbl.pdf

As you can see the sides Decrease significantly over time.

Finasteride sides also decrease by time but less than Dutasteride.

I hate to be a pain in the ***, but how do you KNOW that, if the studies didn't even make a direct comparison of the two drugs?

Bryan


Nothing in life is for sure.
 

Bryan

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IDOASIS said:
I really don't know.
Why do you need to be so negative, it is obviously going to be
much bigger than before ,so it can give us a better idea on Dutasteride and cancer.

I'm not being "negative", my friend, I'm being REALISTIC. As huge as the PCPT was, the results are still rather questionable, with overall recommendations for using finasteride to prevent prostate cancer still controversial. Whether or not another much smaller study with dutasteride will clarify things any seems doubtful.

IDOASIS said:
Nothing in life is for sure.

Yeah, nothing in life is for sure, so let's just go by wishful thinking and guesswork, right? :wink:

Bryan
 

IDOASIS

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Bryan said:
Yeah, nothing in life is for sure, so let's just go by wishful thinking and guesswork, right? :wink:

Bryan



Bryan said:
Maybe, maybe not. In older men, I think it's more of a crap-shoot. But I think it's an OUTSTANDING strategy for very young men with a strong family history of prostate cancer, not to mention hair loss! :wink:


Bryan

Well ,you seem to guess prety well :D

As far as dutasteride sides,
I am not guessing, it is all based on those studies.
It doesn't make any difference if Dutasteride and Finasteride studies were
Conducted alone or together , as long as there is a placebo group.



Bryan said:
I'm not being "negative", my friend, I'm being REALISTIC. As huge as the PCPT was, the results are still rather questionable, with overall recommendations for using finasteride to prevent prostate cancer still controversial. Whether or not another much smaller study with dutasteride will clarify things any seems doubtful.


Bryan

You guess again my friend ,you don't know if and how much smaller is
the dutasteride study, and then you reach to conclusion it wont clarify things.
 

Felk

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Bryan said:
Aplunk1 said:
Bryan, are you suggesting that I'm benefiting from taking dutasteride at 21?

I say this because I have a LOOONG family history of prostate cancer and problems.

Oh my god, you're an IDEAL candidate for dutasteride (or finasteride), in my opinion!! Keep taking it for the rest of your life!

Bryan

I'm wondering why you recommended this so strongly Bryan, when in another post of yours i read you stated the finasteride/dutasteride link to preventing prostate cancer was still rather questionable?
 

Bryan

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I clearly explained in a previous post that I think it's questionable in OLDER men. In YOUNG men, I highly recommend it.

Here's what I said before:

Maybe, maybe not. In older men, I think it's more of a crap-shoot. But I think it's an OUTSTANDING strategy for very young men with a strong family history of prostate cancer, not to mention hair loss!

Bryan
 

CCS

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do you think 2-3 x0.5mg dutasteride will prevent prostate cancer, or do we need a higher dose? I mean for young guys who don't yet have any abnormal cells.
 

CCS

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which is the better cancer killer, finasteride or dutasteride, at low concentrations?
 

Bryan

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collegechemistrystudent said:
do you think 2-3 x0.5mg dutasteride will prevent prostate cancer, or do we need a higher dose? I mean for young guys who don't yet have any abnormal cells.

I think that's easily sufficient.
 

Old Baldy

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Bryan said:
collegechemistrystudent said:
do you think 2-3 x0.5mg dutasteride will prevent prostate cancer, or do we need a higher dose? I mean for young guys who don't yet have any abnormal cells.

I think that's easily sufficient.

Bryan: Please read that new study on finasteride./dutasteride. not causing high grade prostate cancer and let me know your thoughts.

Here it is: (found and posted by Plat)

Proscar Exonerated as Trigger for High-Grade Prostate Cancer

By Judith Groch, Senior Writer, MedPage Today
Reviewed by Zalman S. Agus, MD; Emeritus Professor at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.
August 16, 2006


MedPage Today Action Points


Inform concerned patients taking Proscar for benign prostatic hyperplasia that the small but significant risk of high-grade tumors associated with its use was probably not caused by the drug, but rather by improved detection, according to this analysis.

Additional Prostate Cancer Coverage
Review
SAN ANTONIO, Aug. 16 -- Proscar (finasteride), the 5α-reductaste inhibitor, increased the sensitivity of PSA testing for both overall and high-grade prostate cancer, according to an analysis of a large trial, and did not perpetrate any aggressive malignancies.


This analysis was spurred by results of the seven-year Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial (PCPT) in which men in the Proscar arm had a 24.8% reduced risk of prostate cancer compared with placebo patients. However, they also had a small but statistically significant increase of malignancies with high Gleason scores.


But because of the increased sensitivity of PSA testing with the use of Proscar, the increase in aggressive tumors could only have been expected, wrote Ian Thompson, M.D., of the University of Texas here, and colleagues, in the Aug. 16 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.


The fact that the increased hazard ratio for detecting high-grade tumors appeared early and did not increase with time was inconsistent with the theory that Proscar induced high-grade disease, they concluded.


The increase in high-grade tumors (Gleason 7-10) in Proscar patients (37%) versus placebo control (22.2%) dampened interest in using Proscar to prevent prostate cancer, wrote Dr. Thompson, and colleagues. Proscar is FDA-approved to ease symptoms of benign prostatic hyperplasia.


The trial was closed a year earlier than planned because the primary objective -- reduction in prostate cancer risk -- had been achieved. To clarify the role of Proscar, the researchers studied men in the placebo and Proscar groups of the PCPT who had had a prostate biopsy with concurrent PSA testing during the study.


In their analysis, prostate cancer was detected in 1,111 of 5,112 men (22%) in the placebo group, the researchers reported. Gleason tumor grade was available for 1,100 of the placebo men, of whom 240 had grade 7 or higher and 55 had grade 8 or higher.


Of 4,579 men taking Proscar, 695 had prostate cancer (15%). Gleason grade was available for 686 men, of whom 264 had grade 7 or higher, and 81 had grade 8 or higher.


The receiver operating characteristic curve (AUC) of PSA for all outcomes was greater for the Proscar group than for the placebo group, the researchers reported. The AUC of PSA, a measure of diagnostic accuracy, is a biomarker that has widespread use in the U.S. and is better at detecting higher-grade prostate cancer than lower-grade cancer, the researchers said.


For detecting prostate cancer versus no cancer, the AUCs were 0.757 and 0.681, respectively (P<0.001); for detecting Gleason grade ≥ 7 versus ≤ 6 or no cancer, the AUCs were 0.838 and 0.781, respectively (P=0.003); and for detecting Gleason grade ≥ 8 versus ≤ 7 or no cancer, the AUCs were 0.886 and 0.824, respectively (P=0.071), the researchers reported.


The sensitivity of PSA was higher for men taking Proscar than for those given a placebo at all PSA cutoffs matched by specificity, the researchers reported. Thus, they said, PSA's significantly better sensitivity and better AUC for detecting prostate cancer among the Proscar patients would be expected to contribute to greater detection of all grades of prostate cancer.


Moreover, he added, the difference in the absolute numbers of high-grade tumors found in for-cause biopsies (i.e. those done for an elevated PSA or a digital rectal exam) was not seen in the end-of-study (not-for-cause) biopsies.


Among the advantages of Proscar, the researchers wrote, is that the drug led to significant improvements in the AUC of PSA for prostate cancer detection, an accomplishment that is otherwise difficult to attain. In fact, they wrote, this effect of Proscar on the sensitivity of PSA may have been at least in part responsible for the increased detection of high-grade disease in the PCPT.


The study had several potential limitations, the researchers wrote. The conclusions may not apply to other populations, as the men in the study were generally healthy, predominantly white, with a median age of 72 at the outset.


In addition, not all men who were advised to have a biopsy did so, whereas more men in the placebo arm accepted the recommendation. Nevertheless, the researchers said, the high rate of end-of-study biopsies regardless of PSA and rectal exam results were equal in both arms, suggesting that none of these factors biased the results.


The central finding of this analysis, namely that Proscar increased the sensitivity of PSA testing for both overall and high-grade cancer, had three major implications, the researchers wrote. First, the increased risk of high-grade disease in the PCPT was due, at least in part to improved detection, rather than the induction of high-grade disease. Second, Proscar may improve the performance of PSA screening in the general population.


And finally, Dr. Thompson said, because PSA testing was better in the Proscar group, the 24.8% decrease in the seven-year prevalence of prostate cancer reported in the PCPT is likely to be an underestimate of the actual reduction in prostate cancer risk with Proscar.

Additional Prostate Cancer Coverage


Earn CME/CE credit for reading the news.

Primary source: Journal of the National Cancer Institute
Source reference:
Thompson, IM, et al, "Effect of Finasteride on the Sensitivity of PSA for Detecting Prostate Cancer," J Natl Cancer Inst 2006; 98 : 1128-1133.
 

Bryan

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I hope they're right!
 
G

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collegechemistrystudent said:
do you think 2-3 x0.5mg dutasteride will prevent prostate cancer, or do we need a higher dose? I mean for young guys who don't yet have any abnormal cells.

when you say 2-3x do you mean 2-3 doses per day or 2-3 doses per week?
 
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