Equol: A Natural Dht Binder And The Primary Ingredient In Brotzu

[jonnywalker93]

Don't take my experience too serious as I get side effects from everything, but I am sad to say that this sh*t gives me finasteride brain fog at 1mg per day. I used a PG/water vehicle (not even ethanol lol) at 1:1 ratio. Fortunately, I managed my expectations accordingly so I am not too disappointed.

My last attempts will be topical liposomal finasteride at a micro dose, deslo and maybe equol again as a lower version. Ridiculous when you are willing to take every risk, but cannot even find something to maintain.

At least this stuff appears to be quite strong so I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work for guys who are less sensitive.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Silly question probably but I’m going to up my anti AA as I don’t think RU has been strong enough to do anything but slow the loss. Question would be do our collective r equol users see this as a more viable option than darolutamide??? I know there’s a new group of people testing daro and I await the results but as for now I’ve only got the cash to support one or the other. Seems that r equol would have less of a failure rate if I’m to assume due to the estrogenic properties combined with the 5ar inhibition?

Darolutamide sounds very promising but if I remember correctly only has one mode of action and there hasn’t been more than a couple reports of success.

I’m using finasteride with very little side effects.

 

[whatevr]

Don't take my experience too serious as I get side effects from everything, but I am sad to say that this sh*t gives me finasteride brain fog at 1mg per day. I used a PG/water vehicle (not even ethanol lol) at 1:1 ratio. Fortunately, I managed my expectations accordingly so I am not too disappointed.

My last attempts will be topical liposomal finasteride at a micro dose, deslo and maybe equol again as a lower version. Ridiculous when you are willing to take every risk, but cannot even find something to maintain.

At least this stuff appears to be quite strong so I don't see any reason why this shouldn't work for guys who are less sensitive.

It does have the capability to cause brain fog. I think people who believe that Finasteride only causes brain fog because of 5-AR and that inhibiting DHT with equol is 'safe' are f*****g deluded.

It does not matter what substance we are talking about we don't want ANYTHING going systemic, or at least in as miniscule amounts as possible. If there's one thing I learned in 4 years of hair loss it's that there is a shitload of drugs out there but the common problem with ALL of them is that in an amount that will be effective for hair loss the drug will go systemic and cause side effects. What we need are better delivery method, not more drugs.

This is why I bought a sonicator and lecithine (for starters). Alcohol-based vehicles are f*****g garbage.

 

[whatevr]

Silly question probably but I’m going to up my anti AA as I don’t think RU has been strong enough to do anything but slow the loss. Question would be do our collective r equol users see this as a more viable option than darolutamide??? I know there’s a new group of people testing daro and I await the results but as for now I’ve only got the cash to support one or the other. Seems that r equol would have less of a failure rate if I’m to assume due to the estrogenic properties combined with the 5ar inhibition?

Darolutamide sounds very promising but if I remember correctly only has one mode of action and there hasn’t been more than a couple reports of success.

I’m using finasteride with very little side effects.

I wouldn't really take darolutamide at this stage. There are so few success stories and so little known about this drug it just seems like a crap shoot. On top of that, AR inhibitors have a much worse track record, than 5-AR inhibitors.

2-3 mg of RS-equol is stronger than 75 mg of RU. And 1 mg finasteride. Just for reference from my observations.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

I wouldn't really take darolutamide at this stage. There are so few success stories and so little known about this drug it just seems like a crap shoot. On top of that, AR inhibitors have a much worse track record, than 5-AR inhibitors.

2-3 mg of RS-equol is stronger than 75 mg of RU. And 1 mg finasteride. Just for reference from my observations.

Sounds like I could get a shitload of mileage out even half a gram. I think this is the way to go for my next step. I can’t see finasteride and equol failing at maintenance for me and my hopes are that a strong enough topical dht inhibitor combined with finasteride and minoxidil has to be the recipe for regrowth of my recent (last 6 months) loss.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

@whatevr were you on s-equol or racemic equol?

It does seem unlikely that s-equol could cause all of those sides, as some ~50% of the men are in Southeast Asia are equol producers. I think that they would have noticed by now. What you're experiencing sounds worse than a hangover, and people tend to notice that.

 

[hopeforhappiness]

@whatevr were you on s-equol or racemic equol?

It does seem unlikely that s-equol could cause all of those sides, as some ~50% of the men are in Southeast Asia are equol producers. I think that they would have noticed by now. What you're experiencing sounds worse than a hangover, and people tend to notice that.

This post is not directed to me but I don’t think anyone was able to find s equol on its own at even a remotely reasonable price. I was under the impression that everyone was using rs equol.

 

[sunchyme1]

@whatevr were you on s-equol or racemic equol?

It does seem unlikely that s-equol could cause all of those sides, as some ~50% of the men are in Southeast Asia are equol producers. I think that they would have noticed by now. What you're experiencing sounds worse than a hangover, and people tend to notice that.

hes on r/s equol

the r equol is whats giving him the sides

no one can find s equol by itself at a decent price

 

[hopeforhappiness]

If you’re a male and r/s equol is doing the job why not just deal with the sides ? Eventually the price of s equol has to go down at which point we can all make the switch. This is what I’ll be doing.

Or at that point you could try BOTH with a low enough dose of rs to get some benefits from the 5ar and just increase the benefits with a larger ratio of pure s equol.

 

[whatevr]

hes on r/s equol

the r equol is whats giving him the sides

no one can find s equol by itself at a decent price

The thing is that people are assuming that S-Equol won't have those side effects because... no idea where they get that from. Main argument is "Brotzu used this lotion on children and they were fine" - assuming that's true, you have to understand that a month supply of Brotzu lotion only uses 7 mg of S-Equol.

I need 6 mg of RS-Equol daily just to maintain, that would be 20-30 mg for the rest of you. Use 20-30 mg of S-Equol and you will get DHT inhibition sides just as well, namely a numb dick and duller orgasms. Almost guarantee it.

@Afro_Vacancy It's not the same to produce a couple of mg's in your gut and absorb 20-30 mg's through your head, which won't get metabolized by your digestive system and go inside in full capacity.

I just hope that the liposomes in Brotzu are what makes all the difference and enables us to get away with a much smaller amount of which most will stay in the scalp.

 

[jonnywalker93]

If you’re a male and r/s equol is doing the job why not just deal with the sides ? Eventually the price of s equol has to go down at which point we can all make the switch. This is what I’ll be doing.

Or at that point you could try BOTH with a low enough dose of rs to get some benefits from the 5ar and just increase the benefits with a larger ratio of pure s equol.

Because brain fog is unacceptable when you are paid for using your brain...

 

[hopeforhappiness]

Because brain fog is unacceptable when you are paid for using your brain...

Hmm is it too much or rude for me to ask what you are paid for ?

 

[jonnywalker93]

Hmm is it too much or rude for me to ask what you are paid for ?

Client management in a design agency. Not really helpful when you go to an important meeting and cannot remember what happened in the last one due to this cloud in your head. But the worst thing is that it makes all these simple things such as reading, writing and speaking incredibly difficult and challenging...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The thing is that people are assuming that S-Equol won't have those side effects because... no idea where they get that from. Main argument is "Brotzu used this lotion on children and they were fine" - assuming that's true, you have to understand that a month supply of Brotzu lotion only uses 7 mg of S-Equol.

The very first post in this thread thread says that R-equol has much stronger anti-androgenic effects.

 

[Georgie]

Thanks. I know about MB, but I have enough things to help my thyroid for the time being, the problem is they ALL wreck my hair because DHT goes up as well.

When I'm not treating it, I can maintain with 6 mg of equol. When I am, I need 20-30 mg. That's how much my hormones increase. Shiiiiit.

The problem is I have estrogenic sides at anything above 6 mg because of the non-linearity of the DHT inhibition curve of equol vs. the estrogen agonist properties, so it's impossible to keep the hair loss at bay in "high-hormone" mode without getting side effects from excess ER stimulation.

Well if equol has estrogenic properties I definitely haven’t noticed. I’ve used 100mg for 3 days now and my head is still itchy, read, and my hair is shedding like there’s no tomorrow because the minoxidil has totally 100% stopped working again. It’d be nice if SOMETHING worked.

 

[Ortega45]

The thing is that people are assuming that S-Equol won't have those side effects because... no idea where they get that from.

"The gene for making the 5-alpha reductase (type 1) enzyme was significantly inhibited by R-equol, but not S-equol."

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ary-ingredient-in-brotzu.113209/#post-1645762

 

[whatevr]

The very first post in this thread thread says that R-equol has much stronger anti-androgenic effects.

The only thing it does that S-Equol doesn't is that it also inhibits 5AR1 (useless for hair loss). There is nothing 'much stronger' about it.

 

[whatevr]

"The gene for making the 5-alpha reductase (type 1) enzyme was significantly inhibited by R-equol, but not S-equol."

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ary-ingredient-in-brotzu.113209/#post-1645762

It does not mean that S-Equol is safe because it does not do that. People think that they can freely bind or lower DHT without consequences, and that Finasteride is only bad because 'teh evil 5AR inhibition' lol.

DHT is still the most potent androgen. You can't disable it and get away with that.

I stand by my statements: everything that works will cause side effects if it goes systemic. Hair loss drugs need to be kept local. We need to investigate- liposomes, niosomes, hydroelectrophoresis and other potential methods that can help us keep the drugs we already have localized to the scalp.

 

[Ortega45]

It does not mean that S-Equol is safe because it does not do that. People think that they can freely bind or lower DHT without consequences, and that Finasteride is only bad because 'teh evil 5AR inhibition' lol.

DHT is still the most potent androgen. You can't disable it and get away with that.

I stand by my statements: everything that works will cause side effects if it goes systemic. Hair loss drugs need to be kept local. We need to investigate- liposomes, niosomes, hydroelectrophoresis and other potential methods that can help us keep the drugs we already have localized to the scalp.

And you may be right.
Personally I used to believe finasteride side-effects were caused only by lowered DHT but I was told that the worst side-effects (libido issues, gyno) people have are due to increased Estradiol from 5AR inhibition, and the usual mild ones like watery semen are due to the lowered DHT itself.
Who knows, really...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The only thing it does that S-Equol doesn't is that it also inhibits 5AR1 (useless for hair loss). There is nothing 'much stronger' about it.

The 5AR1 inhibition may be relevant to many of your sides. Moreover, the first post in this thread said that the differences were not explained. Why does R-equol work better on the prostate? Entirely because of 5Ar1 inhibition? Are you sure?