Estradiol Directly Down Regulates Androgen Receptors Thus Downregulating Androgenic Gene Expersion

[Obsessive]

That’s a ridiculous theory for so many reasons. If a small amount is absorbed topically a much higher dose would be needed to achieve the same amount in the scalp since it’s dispersed all throughout the body. Using small doses on the scalp can mean that a very small portion goes systemic which either won’t be enough to cause sides or can easily be controlled with drugs like ralox.

Either way, if the same serum concentrations were needed for topical and orals then the topical market would be dead and no drugs would ever be made in topical form

This is accurate.
I have a question since it relates to my situ...Your regimen indicates you still use 1 mg of finasteride although you deem yourself a non-responder. What is your rationale for staying with it?

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

This is accurate.
I have a question since it relates to my situ...Your regimen indicates you still use 1 mg of finasteride although you deem yourself a non-responder. What is your rationale for staying with it?

it slows my hairloss down but doesnt stop it

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Gonna try this too. How do you make/source your solution Coach Hemingway?

you can mix it kb solution or use peg 40 at 2.5% in 60 ethanol.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

It seems to be working to reduce shedding. I added 50mg proviron to my regiment and with the estradiol im still shedding 25 hairs or less per shower

 

[DHTcel]

just started 100mcg/ml estradiol 17b today, using 60mg Raloxifine ED and I will start out with 1mg Arimidex per week and up the estradiol dose as well as the arimidex dose as time passes.

 

[nWo Wolfpac]

Usually the way this works is the more hair you grow the more gyno you will get. I have been taking Estradiol and Cyproterone for 8 months now. It has regrown my temples and thickened my hair up everywhere. I was almost bald so my hair is still thin in places but is improving all the time. But it has also given me gyno. More gyno than you guys could probably live with. I wear men's compression under shirts when ever I wear form fitting clothing which for me is most of the time. Now on the bright side my gyno hasn't gotten any worse in the last 3 months while my hair has continued to improve. I have noticed from reading transgender accounts that it usually takes very high doses of e to get full on b**ch tits like 6 to 8 mg a day. I am taking 2.25 mg of Estradiol per day and the regrowth is slow but steady. I don't think it would be effective on anything less than 1.5 mg a day. I take raloxefine on and off it helps reduce the gyno but it also causes my hair to shed and has in others as well which is why I don't take it non stop. Forget about tamoxofene that drug is 10 times worse for hair than raloxefine is. I think taking anything that makes you more sensitive to hair growth will also make you more sensitive to gyno but I could be wrong. Anyways for me it's mostly been positive. I have mostly a full head of hair and my gyno isn't horrible. Good luck.

 

[Sanchez1234]

Usually the way this works is the more hair you grow the more gyno you will get. I have been taking Estradiol and Cyproterone for 8 months now. It has regrown my temples and thickened my hair up everywhere. I was almost bald so my hair is still thin in places but is improving all the time. But it has also given me gyno. More gyno than you guys could probably live with. I wear men's compression under shirts when ever I wear form fitting clothing which for me is most of the time. Now on the bright side my gyno hasn't gotten any worse in the last 3 months while my hair has continued to improve. I have noticed from reading transgender accounts that it usually takes very high doses of e to get full on b**ch tits like 6 to 8 mg a day. I am taking 2.25 mg of Estradiol per day and the regrowth is slow but steady. I don't think it would be effective on anything less than 1.5 mg a day. I take raloxefine on and off it helps reduce the gyno but it also causes my hair to shed and has in others as well which is why I don't take it non stop. Forget about tamoxofene that drug is 10 times worse for hair than raloxefine is. I think taking anything that makes you more sensitive to hair growth will also make you more sensitive to gyno but I could be wrong. Anyways for me it's mostly been positive. I have mostly a full head of hair and my gyno isn't horrible. Good luck.

How about sexual function?

 

[nWo Wolfpac]

How about sexual function?

Much lower libido but everything works fine.

 

[coco_304]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3569146

"Cells treated with 2.6 nM estradiol exhibited markedly lower levels of cytoplasmic androgen receptors, measured by [3H]5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone ([3H]DHT) binding, compared to levels in cells receiving ethanol vehicle alone. The effect was time dependent, and 6-day treatment of cells with estradiol resulted in an 80% reduction in [3H]DHT binding.
...
In summary, estradiol treatment caused a reduction in androgen receptors, and estradiol withdrawal lead to a rise in androgen receptors. We believe that these results provide a mechanism whereby estradiol may directly antagonize androgen action. Conversely, estradiol withdrawal may potentiate androgen action by allowing androgen receptor levels to rise."

This clearly explains why those using estradiol experience such incredible regrowth. 2.6 nM of estradiol resulted in a 80% reduction of AR binding of DHT and a 50% reduction in AR levels.

So not only does estradiol cause activation of the ER which causes estrogenic gene expression taking your cells in the opposite direction of hair loss but it also downregulates the presence of the androgen receptor.

Anti androgens like Bica, Daro, and RU etc increase androgen receptor sensitivity so the smallest topical amounts of estradiol along with AAs could produce huge benefits


Any of you with very aggressive forms of hairloss may want to experriment by combining your 5AR inhibitior with topical estradiol and a topical AA. The dosage you pick is crucial as estradiol is a very potent hormone, I would say start with 25 micrograms and adjust your dose from there. Do NOT use estradiol without an anti-estrogen like Raloxifene or Tamoxifen on hand.

How much is 2.6nm to estriadol tablet

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Usually the way this works is the more hair you grow the more gyno you will get. I have been taking Estradiol and Cyproterone for 8 months now. It has regrown my temples and thickened my hair up everywhere. I was almost bald so my hair is still thin in places but is improving all the time. But it has also given me gyno. More gyno than you guys could probably live with. I wear men's compression under shirts when ever I wear form fitting clothing which for me is most of the time. Now on the bright side my gyno hasn't gotten any worse in the last 3 months while my hair has continued to improve. I have noticed from reading transgender accounts that it usually takes very high doses of e to get full on b**ch tits like 6 to 8 mg a day. I am taking 2.25 mg of Estradiol per day and the regrowth is slow but steady. I don't think it would be effective on anything less than 1.5 mg a day. I take raloxefine on and off it helps reduce the gyno but it also causes my hair to shed and has in others as well which is why I don't take it non stop. Forget about tamoxofene that drug is 10 times worse for hair than raloxefine is. I think taking anything that makes you more sensitive to hair growth will also make you more sensitive to gyno but I could be wrong. Anyways for me it's mostly been positive. I have mostly a full head of hair and my gyno isn't horrible. Good luck.

If I am right, you are using estradiol gel?

 

[Chemichal Castration]

According to everything I've read I've came to the same conclusion as you. Inhibiting DHT expression in scalp is in theory the solution to halting androgenetic alopecia, but not enough to promote hair growth. However, if you add something like estradiol you will have regrowth. My theory is that both act on the wingless canonical pathway by different mechanisms. I think that plays a major role in Androgenetic Alopecia but one thing I would like to understand the most, which seems the most forgotten is the immunological response - the presence of macrophages and cytokines in the inter cellular matrix seems to dysfunction cellular metabolism by affecting the cascade of signalling pathways also. Plus, we often think the cause of inflammation are high levels of DHT, but cant high levels of DHT be a response to inflammation in the first place? DHT over expresses interleukin 10 which is a anti inflammatory cytokine.

I know its counter intuitive but Im trying to be open minded and not get biased by research focus. What if in the first place there was an underlying cause of inflammation which would lead to the upregulation of DHT in response to suppress it? Im just wondering but for sure im going to follow your development.

You apply topical daro and estradiol, right? What are your sides?

 

[nWo Wolfpac]

If I am right, you are using estradiol gel?

Yes that is correct. The gel is more effective than pills and gives more consistent levels of e.

 

[Maave]

I take raloxefine on and off it helps reduce the gyno but it also causes my hair to shed and has in others as well which is why I don't take it non stop. Forget about tamoxofene that drug is 10 times worse for hair than raloxefine is.

This needs to be in bold because people here keep trying tamoxifen. Don't. It sucks. It has a dozen side effects include hair loss. Raloxifene is safer.

 

[Mr. Grey]

Usually the way this works is the more hair you grow the more gyno you will get. I have been taking Estradiol and Cyproterone for 8 months now. It has regrown my temples and thickened my hair up everywhere. I was almost bald so my hair is still thin in places but is improving all the time. But it has also given me gyno. More gyno than you guys could probably live with. I wear men's compression under shirts when ever I wear form fitting clothing which for me is most of the time. Now on the bright side my gyno hasn't gotten any worse in the last 3 months while my hair has continued to improve. I have noticed from reading transgender accounts that it usually takes very high doses of e to get full on b**ch tits like 6 to 8 mg a day. I am taking 2.25 mg of Estradiol per day and the regrowth is slow but steady. I don't think it would be effective on anything less than 1.5 mg a day. I take raloxefine on and off it helps reduce the gyno but it also causes my hair to shed and has in others as well which is why I don't take it non stop. Forget about tamoxofene that drug is 10 times worse for hair than raloxefine is. I think taking anything that makes you more sensitive to hair growth will also make you more sensitive to gyno but I could be wrong. Anyways for me it's mostly been positive. I have mostly a full head of hair and my gyno isn't horrible. Good luck.

Which the most important drug in your regimen gave hair Regrowth Cypro or topical Estrogen?
If use Estrogel without Cypro the is will be any effect?

 

[nWo Wolfpac]

Which the most important drug in your regimen gave hair Regrowth Cypro or topical Estrogen?
If use Estrogel without Cypro the is will be any effect?

They are both equally important. You will likely have no effect if you use estrogel only unless your going to use a lot of it. In the end the result will be the same.

 

[dezertfox]

why are you such a freeloader

I already am trying it

how was your experience with it? I am thinking of adding oestrogel cream on temples myself.

 

[Guru0007]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3569146

"Cells treated with 2.6 nM estradiol exhibited markedly lower levels of cytoplasmic androgen receptors, measured by [3H]5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone ([3H]DHT) binding, compared to levels in cells receiving ethanol vehicle alone. The effect was time dependent, and 6-day treatment of cells with estradiol resulted in an 80% reduction in [3H]DHT binding.
...
In summary, estradiol treatment caused a reduction in androgen receptors, and estradiol withdrawal lead to a rise in androgen receptors. We believe that these results provide a mechanism whereby estradiol may directly antagonize androgen action. Conversely, estradiol withdrawal may potentiate androgen action by allowing androgen receptor levels to rise."

This clearly explains why those using estradiol experience such incredible regrowth. 2.6 nM of estradiol resulted in a 80% reduction of AR binding of DHT and a 50% reduction in AR levels.

So not only does estradiol cause activation of the ER which causes estrogenic gene expression taking your cells in the opposite direction of hair loss but it also downregulates the presence of the androgen receptor.

Anti androgens like Bica, Daro, and RU etc increase androgen receptor sensitivity so the smallest topical amounts of estradiol along with AAs could produce huge benefits


Any of you with very aggressive forms of hairloss may want to experriment by combining your 5AR inhibitior with topical estradiol and a topical AA. The dosage you pick is crucial as estradiol is a very potent hormone, I would say start with 25 micrograms and adjust your dose from there. Do NOT use estradiol without an anti-estrogen like Raloxifene or Tamoxifen on hand.

Hi bro... actually I'm adding estrogen from today...cz I think I got reflex hyperandrogensity from duta ....at 0.5mg I get scalp itch nd tingle but at 0.25 I don't get any itch r shed y is this?...so I'm thinking about down regulating AR with estrogen