Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[DHTcel]

DHTcell: I guess you're the test dummy for bica at the moment. Has anything changed since adding it (shedding, side effect, etc.)? I, and others, are following your progress so let us all know what's happening.

I know some people have lots of sebum, some have burning hair, some have pain when they touch their hair.

about 10-11 days into bicalutamide the pain in my hair reduced by 30-40ish%, when I used to touch my hair the whole scalp would hurt. (note I have insanely aggressive hair loss genes, my sister and mother have thinning hair and my dad is bald) I've been on 50mg for 12 days and 100mg for past 2 days (I'm sticking to 100mg for the course of this year)

Bicalutamide has very weak binding capacity (that doesn't mean other anti-androgens are any better, they're worse) when we compare it to androgens. It works because it builds up a very very high stable serum concentrations compared to androgen molecules owing to its incredibly high elimination life (7 days). The high concentrations overload on the receptors and it binds irrespective of the presence of androgens. But that doesn't happen in testes, because the concentrations of androgens is very high in that area.It's more like simple kinetics:
Rate of reaction(r) = Rate constant(k) * A power of Concentration of reactants(c)

Now, in hair follicles, the value of (k) for androgens is very high, but bicalutamide overpowers it by building up a very high value of (c) to compensate for its low value of (k) and it wins. But in testes, androgens have both a very high value for (k) and for (c). No matter how high (c) gets for bicalutamide on regular/recommended dosage, it never wins there.

Also, once the bond is formed, androgen molecules cannot replace bicalutamide or vice-versa.

 

[DHTcel]

What about scalp follicles? We know it is useful for body hair but is there evidence that bica is active in scalp tissue? If all this turns out to be accurate, this will be huge. Do we know of more than one or two success stories with bica? Ein is one I'm aware of. Is Mauve still around?

you see the body has androgens (t and dht) and androgen receptors throughout all your body. when t and dht bind to the AR they allow it to translocate to the nucleus where it then transcribes androgen responsive genes through a coactivator expression. this is important because the nucleus holds the genes for the androgen X chromosome where baldness, acne, prostate cancer, and body hair etc lie.

bicalutamide at sufficient concentrations (1000 fold excess) prevents complete activation of the AR from androgens T and DHT. Bicalutamide is marketed as a non-steroidal anti androgen, its mechanism of action is that it functions as an androgen receptor antagonist by preventing the androgen receptor from being activated by in the first place which disinhibits the transolaction of the AR to the nucleus. Overtime this process demonstrates that bicalutamide stimulates the assembly of a transcriptionally inactive AR on DNA and support altered coactivator to now corepressor expression.

We know this to be the case because bicalutamide can't stimulate interactions between the AR N and C termini or recruitment of steroid receptor coactivator proteins (SRC-1 or -2), although SRC transfection augmented AR activity in the presence of dihydrotestosterone and testosterone. (this means T and DHT stimulate coactivator proteins which means that it makes the AR transcribe genes aka making u bald)

Without coactivator expression present in the nucleus, genes in the androgen X chromosome (baldness,acne,hirsutism) cannot be transcribed and therefore as long as the proper dosing of bicalutamide is used, it can serve a huge benefit to treating aggressive male pattern baldness.

check out my thread on proper dosing of Bicalutamide: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/how-much-t-dht-does-bicalutamide-block.123281/

@Guido

 

[Itsnoahkennedy]

lol i am nervous about blood clotting and sudden death, but ive been on 1/4 50mg cyproterone and 1mg E x2 daily. but i have 4 months worth of bicalutamide on the way. im going to the endocrinologist to make sure im not at risk of dying, probably next week.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

lol i am nervous about blood clotting and sudden death, but ive been on 1/4 50mg cyproterone and 1mg E x2 daily. but i have 4 months worth of bicalutamide on the way. im going to the endocrinologist to make sure im not at risk of dying, probably next week.

I definitely agree it is a good idea to see an endo to track health while taking these meds. But in the meantime I wouldn't worry to much on the dosages your on. How are you taking E? If it's pills then sublingual/buccal I hope? As long as you aren't swallowing the pills (wherein it has firstpass through the liver), the risk of blood clots seems minimal. Much of the still used data about clotting is from conjugated equine estrogens (derived from pregnant horse urine), which have since fallen out of favor with doctors. More recent and popular alternatives like estradiol valerate lack the data to indicate they carry the same clotting risks. Nevertheless, it's still a good idea to see a doctor for the occasional blood test.

 

[Itsnoahkennedy]

How are you taking E?

Im using Estrogel rubbing it on inner thighs

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Im using Estrogel rubbing it on inner thighs

That's actually the safest way. Again, the clotting risk is higher from oral administration. “By processing estrogen, the liver increases production of blood-clotting factors.” https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.k4810

 

[Ikarus]

lol i am nervous about blood clotting and sudden death, but ive been on 1/4 50mg cyproterone and 1mg E x2 daily. but i have 4 months worth of bicalutamide on the way. im going to the endocrinologist to make sure im not at risk of dying, probably next week.

You will be fine; incidences of blood clots generally happen with oral use, although it is generally seen within older women.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

you see the body has androgens (t and dht) and androgen receptors throughout all your body. when t and dht bind to the AR they allow it to translocate to the nucleus where it then transcribes androgen responsive genes through a coactivator expression. this is important because the nucleus holds the genes for the androgen X chromosome where baldness, acne, prostate cancer, and body hair etc lie.

bicalutamide at sufficient concentrations (1000 fold excess) prevents complete activation of the AR from androgens T and DHT. Bicalutamide is marketed as a non-steroidal anti androgen, its mechanism of action is that it functions as an androgen receptor antagonist by preventing the androgen receptor from being activated by in the first place which disinhibits the transolaction of the AR to the nucleus. Overtime this process demonstrates that bicalutamide stimulates the assembly of a transcriptionally inactive AR on DNA and support altered coactivator to now corepressor expression.

We know this to be the case because bicalutamide can't stimulate interactions between the AR N and C termini or recruitment of steroid receptor coactivator proteins (SRC-1 or -2), although SRC transfection augmented AR activity in the presence of dihydrotestosterone and testosterone. (this means T and DHT stimulate coactivator proteins which means that it makes the AR transcribe genes aka making u bald)

Without coactivator expression present in the nucleus, genes in the androgen X chromosome (baldness,acne,hirsutism) cannot be transcribed and therefore as long as the proper dosing of bicalutamide is used, it can serve a huge benefit to treating aggressive male pattern baldness.

check out my thread on proper dosing of Bicalutamide: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/how-much-t-dht-does-bicalutamide-block.123281/

@Guido

I would hope to see a positive result for you. Till then, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Marky]

lol i am nervous about blood clotting and sudden death, but ive been on 1/4 50mg cyproterone and 1mg E x2 daily. but i have 4 months worth of bicalutamide on the way. im going to the endocrinologist to make sure im not at risk of dying, probably next week.

How can you tell if blood is clotting?

 

[DHTcel]

I would hope to see a positive result for you. Till then, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

thanks bro

 

[Yar]

[QUOTE = "LEXUS, должность: 1807853, участник: 139951"] Тогда я ничего не понимаю. время ... растет ... есть много примеров того, кто поднял свои волосы на ципротероне. например бриджберн. почему тогда все так боятся ципротерона. Я слышал, что флутамид, как правило, яд для печени. но никто еще не умер. увеличить AR? но я тогда добавил спиронолактон к ципротерону, мои результаты сразу же стали лучше. Единственное, что я заметил, если вы сильно увеличите дозу, то появится противоположный эффект. Я заметил это, когда начал принимать 300 мг зипротерона и 600 мг спиронолактона. Теперь я решил изменить свой режим. Я долго изучал, как любое лекарство действует на организм. изучены все побочные эффекты. Аводарт и Флутамид очень вредны. Я сразу это чувствую. Теперь я немного изменил свой режим. высокие дозы дают противоположный эффект. даже если вы начнете принимать много эстрадиола, эффект будет противоположным. тело просто не принимает его тогда. так что мой режим теперь такой.

25 мг CPA
300 мг спиронолактона
3 мг эстрадиола
ФИНАСТЕРИД 10 мг
1 доза ЭСТРОГЕЛЬ
1 доза MIN на волосы


ЭТО ЛИЧНО МОИ ЗАМЕЧАНИЯ

Я считаю, что спиронолактон эффективен при добавлении к ципротерону. Спиронолактон отключает гормоны, стрессы и другие андрогены, которые ципротерон не касается. В любом случае, в финале или в любом случае отключен только альфа-редуктазу типа 2, он работает лучше для меня, чем avodart.

Я думаю, что любой препарат с увеличением дозы дает противоположный эффект. даже эстрадиол. [/ QUOTE]

I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

25 mg CPA
300 mg spironolactone
3 mg ESTRADIOL
10 mg FINASTERIDE
1 dose ESTROGEL
1 dose MIN on HAIR


THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.

But why do you need finasteride, does it increase testosterone? Or will it not increase testosterone with estradiol?

 

[Yar]

I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

25 mg CPA
300 mg spironolactone
3 mg ESTRADIOL
10 mg FINASTERIDE
1 dose ESTROGEL
1 dose MIN on HAIR


THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.

But why do you need finasteride, does it increase testosterone? The more testosterone there is, the more dht will it be or will it increase testosterone during estradiol? Will it press on dgt?

 

[Yar]

I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

25 mg CPA
300 mg spironolactone
3 mg ESTRADIOL
10 mg FINASTERIDE
1 dose ESTROGEL
1 dose MIN on HAIR


THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.

and why do you need finasteride, increases testosterone. What more testosterone is more dht or will it not increase testosterone with estradiol? Will it press dgt?

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

[QUOTE = "LEXUS, должность: 1807853, участник: 139951"] Тогда я ничего не понимаю. время ... растет ... есть много примеров того, кто поднял свои волосы на ципротероне. например бриджберн. почему тогда все так боятся ципротерона. Я слышал, что флутамид, как правило, яд для печени. но никто еще не умер. увеличить AR? но я тогда добавил спиронолактон к ципротерону, мои результаты сразу же стали лучше. Единственное, что я заметил, если вы сильно увеличите дозу, то появится противоположный эффект. Я заметил это, когда начал принимать 300 мг зипротерона и 600 мг спиронолактона. Теперь я решил изменить свой режим. Я долго изучал, как любое лекарство действует на организм. изучены все побочные эффекты. Аводарт и Флутамид очень вредны. Я сразу это чувствую. Теперь я немного изменил свой режим. высокие дозы дают противоположный эффект. даже если вы начнете принимать много эстрадиола, эффект будет противоположным. тело просто не принимает его тогда. так что мой режим теперь такой.

25 мг CPA
300 мг спиронолактона
3 мг эстрадиола
ФИНАСТЕРИД 10 мг
1 доза ЭСТРОГЕЛЬ
1 доза MIN на волосы


ЭТО ЛИЧНО МОИ ЗАМЕЧАНИЯ

Я считаю, что спиронолактон эффективен при добавлении к ципротерону. Спиронолактон отключает гормоны, стрессы и другие андрогены, которые ципротерон не касается. В любом случае, в финале или в любом случае отключен только альфа-редуктазу типа 2, он работает лучше для меня, чем avodart.

Я думаю, что любой препарат с увеличением дозы дает противоположный эффект. даже эстрадиол. [/ QUOTE]

But why do you need finasteride, does it increase testosterone? Or will it not increase testosterone with estradiol?

Why are you spamming here, dud?

 

[I'mme]

Can anybody answer this?

I'm going through a dread shed. [Maybe because I dropped oral minoxidil after using it for 5 days or maybe it is a sign that fina or minoxidil topical has started working.]

Now one strange thing I've noticed: I've more sand like very smalls balls on my scalp. (To elaborate more, they were always there since I started losing hair, in form of seborrhoeic flakes.)

Can anyone tell me the reason behind this? Is this (having seborrheic dermatitis or sand like balls) common for people with Androgenetic Alopecia? @bridgeburn @Ikarus @DHTcel @Father_of_Shiseido @anyone

 

[DHTcel]

Can anybody answer this?

I'm going through a dread shed. [Maybe because I dropped oral minoxidil after using it for 5 days or maybe it is a sign that fina or minoxidil topical has started working.]

Now one strange thing I've noticed: I've more sand like very smalls balls on my scalp. (To elaborate more, they were always there since I started losing hair, in form of seborrhoeic flakes.)

Can anyone tell me the reason behind this? Is this (having seborrheic dermatitis or sand like balls) common for people with Androgenetic Alopecia? @bridgeburn @Ikarus @DHTcel @Father_of_Shiseido @anyone

seborrhea dermatitis is an androgen dependent condition, so likely you are suffering another male pattern baldness issue

 

[Ikarus]

Can anybody answer this?

I'm going through a dread shed. [Maybe because I dropped oral minoxidil after using it for 5 days or maybe it is a sign that fina or minoxidil topical has started working.]

Now one strange thing I've noticed: I've more sand like very smalls balls on my scalp. (To elaborate more, they were always there since I started losing hair, in form of seborrhoeic flakes.)

Can anyone tell me the reason behind this? Is this (having seborrheic dermatitis or sand like balls) common for people with Androgenetic Alopecia? @bridgeburn @Ikarus @DHTcel @Father_of_Shiseido @anyone

I had seborrheic dermatitis before I started my regimen... Now my scalp is just so dry!

 

[I'mme]

I had seborrheic dermatitis before I started my regimen... Now my scalp is just so dry!

"before I startedy regimen" means you don't have it now?

(also what about grainy/sand like balls (very small) on scalp - did you you them?)

I've read about them from other Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers too.

 

[I'mme]

seborrhea dermatitis is an androgen dependent condition, so likely you are suffering another male pattern baldness issue

Gotta read up on this. Going to shower topical fina on my scalp today. Losing f*****g amount of hair - all long and terminal.

Just 3-5 days of this shed and I can see my whole scalp now.
(was taken not to upload here, but you can see scalp even in the pic not taken to show it explicitly)

 

[Ikarus]

"before I startedy regimen" means you don't have it now?

(also what about grainy/sand like balls (very small) on scalp - did you you them?)

I've read about them from other Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers too.

I don’t have it now; my sebum production has nullified. I used Nizoral last week and it completely dried out my scalp! I didn’t have to wash my hair until six days later, and even then my hair still wasn’t greasy. It was a bizarre experience...

I did have those, and the hairs which shed had a hard thing attached to them. I have seen many androgenic alopecia sufferers with the same issue.