Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

JaneyElizabeth

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That’s not the point I’m making. Maybe I should explain better. A lot of what being discussed in this thread is completely irrelevant or has no real application to hair loss. The original post was meant to be about hairloss yet people are talking about which drug will give them the best boobs? Surely that would be better suited to a trans discussion forum.
Actually, I don't think that that is phrased just right. It is not in reference to what creates the best boobs. I am thoroughly a disbeliever that breast growth can be managed for either MtFs or cis-females. The goal rather is to discuss "worst case scenarios" for cis guys lusting for hair but not feminine bodies, faces and lamentably not even feminine hair. None or virtually none of the gals on the MtF sites believe that I transitioned on roughly 1 mg of estradiol and before that I used estriol bought from Amazon.com. Look up Life Flo estriol, estradiol and biestro care. Amazon made it finally easy to find menopausal creams without a prescription and in a low key way. I knew, as much as a person can know, that estrogen was the key to regrowth of hair and so I started off using those creams on my hair.

The paradox is that many cis-males can achieve, without trying, depending upon the person, noticeable cis-female-type breasts with consistent usage of even small amounts of estradiol or even estriol which I believe that Pegasus uses as part of his 25-stack hair remedy and to good effect and presumably with nothing more than gyno (guyno?).

At the same time if one checks here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/comments/jf9zhy/bringing_e1_down/

or here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/jat5y6/how_to_taper_off_bica_without_spike_in/

or here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMtFHRT/

it is easily apparent that MtFs are just as obsessed with breast growth as many of us are related to hair growth. They are trying for big boobs and no, it doesn't appear to be possible in terms of a la carte ordering of HRT effects but we are so desperate for breast growth that many are currently shoving progesterone pills up the rectum because one quacky doctor recommends that to maximize breast development. It is because, related to progesterone, that this female hormone isn't really orally available because it doesn't make it through first pass through the liver. Progesterone also appears to be largely uninvolved with even cis-female breast growth but since cis-females begin producing lots of progesterone around the ages of 17 to 20, the thought is, "hey, let's try that". It doesn't work and the main acolyte on that site has terrible boobs and terrible hair. Folks who are MtFs are likely to give credence to what I say because I do in fact have big ones and having big ones naturally in that world is like @bridgeburn having close to perfect hair over here. MtFs often, especially younger ones have no hair issues and since many of us, regenerate full heads of hair, @bridgeburn's tale is much less pertinent over there because we see so much of this incredible regrowth on transition timelines.

Many MtFs are willing to try anything if someone says that it might potentially increase either size or roundness, sound familiar? Sort of like castor oil or caffeine or palmetto or gravity boots or cayenne pepper or laser helmets or Zix, which is currently getting lots of hits and I barely knew it was even a thing. Some MtFs set alarm clocks to take their meds in the middle of the night and post questions constantly about medication half-lives and nobody is growing any bigger in the boob department, just like no one is regrowing hair over here without HRT. We have breast data going back 40 years and still MtFs persist in the quest for bigger boobs until over half of MtFs get BA which is what we use as an abbreviation for breast augmentation anyway. That probably sounds familiar too, related to hair transplants....
 
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Marky

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It's more like a combined cumulative effect of T and DHT, It doesn't matter if T drops as you get older since the miniaturization is already apperent at that point. Plus everyone loses density as they get older, be it male or female. So that doesn't help the situation
Except Ronald Reagan he only gained density, he must've been cycling E

upload_2020-10-21_13-44-22.png
 

JaneyElizabeth

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It's more like a combined cumulative effect of T and DHT, It doesn't matter if T drops as you get older since the miniaturization is already apperent at that point. Plus everyone loses density as they get older, be it male or female. So that doesn't help the situation
The hair strands might be conceivably thicker than those of cis-females but "male" hair loses much of its manageability and ability to grow long like an alarm clock ringing at this point, around 20 years of age and much earlier for some poor guys. What troubles me, like breast growth for MtFs rarely being up to cis-female standards, is the lack of recognition that "male" hair is virtually never the same as female hair among caucasians. Hair Is the only time essentially that it is proper to distinguish among the races and whites in particular, have the most sexually dimorphic hair along with Semites, who are usually considered to be white as well but who often lack the red and blonde and even light brown shades noted among Northern Europeans.

Most white males are plenty happy to have Tom Selleck-type hair and I would have been in the olden days but you can't do much with that type of hair and it doesn't move and feel like my pubertal hair. Obviously, I am a bit obsessed with this and greedy in terms of what you guys would deem to be sensational hair and I get that completely and below is for hair pics, not as any expression related to the man or actor. I could never support having chest hair like that, eek, but it is very masculine looking and he has close to full coverage diminishing in a normal age-related pattern:

https://www.looper.com/247428/the-untold-truth-of-tom-selleck/

But as a lawyer says,

See also:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransBreastTimelines/comments/jfi7y3/first_waxinbare_boobs/

Barely safe for work photo of what none of you want and this person likes looking this way. To each their own.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Here is a FtM using T and his comments on hair growth. Perhaps T is good for a short time....but not a long time on hair growth? Consider when boys hit puberty their fine hair gets thicker to age 15,16,17 - then starts to thin from there into mid life at various rates. Perhaps T brings with it other stuff that promote hair growth like growth hormone (GH). If T is all bad for hair why does hair continue to recede as T levels drop as we age.
Perhaps for males, cycling E for 3-4 months (so suppressing T) then going off to allow T levels to shoot back might be the way to go - then repeat cycle. This would be the opposite of what a body builder would do taking T to bulk up muscle, the endocrine system shuts down natural T production because it senses there is already enough T in the system.

View attachment 149032
Thanks for finding this. Goddess was she cute, sigh....

Note the difference in how the eyes are opened up in the female context and then sort of sunken in the male context. That is probably the most characteristic noticeable side-effect in terms of facial feminization/masculinization and for many MtFs, often the only sign of facial feminization, occurring about the eyes.
 
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Marky

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Thanks for finding this. Goddess was she cute, sigh....
Your welcome. Hopefully this contributes to the hormonal link big picture play between T & E. Here is a fellow who suffered from prostate cancer and was put on cypro for a year. You can see he lost the curly texture of his hair when you knock out T. Different strokes for different folks? I think woman's hair is generally softer and silkier (E effects) while men's is courser (T effects).

upload_2020-10-21_14-30-5.png
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Your welcome. Hopefully this contributes to the hormonal link big picture play between T & E. Here is a fellow who suffered from prostate cancer and was put on cypro for a year. You can see he lost the curly texture of his hair when you knock out T. Different strokes for different folks? I think woman's hair is generally softer and silkier (E effects) while men's is courser (T effects).

View attachment 149036
I believe that such kink is related to the well-known "mullet effect" which often comes on concomitantly even for guys with the best hair but which cis-females largely lack probably in relation to the longer anlagen growth cycle. Prostate drugs and birth control medications form the impetus for all hair regrowth/improvement effects from pharmaceuticals.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Except Ronald Reagan he only gained density, he must've been cycling E

View attachment 149034
Notice the perfect "ear hair line that Reagan has compared with our Bosom Buddy (get the reference?) Tom Hanks, where it slopes backwards in front of the ears and yes, probably most of us would be thrilled with Mr. Hank's hair especially on that desert island. @bridgeburn often mentioned that he needed his hair even on a desert island, even aside from the functionality and protection from the sun and yes, cold as it gets cold at night on desert islands or at least in the desert....
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Here is a FtM using T and his comments on hair growth. Perhaps T is good for a short time....but not a long time on hair growth? Consider when boys hit puberty their fine hair gets thicker to age 15,16,17 - then starts to thin from there into mid life at various rates. Perhaps T brings with it other stuff that promote hair growth like growth hormone (GH). If T is all bad for hair why does hair continue to recede as T levels drop as we age.
Perhaps for males, cycling E for 3-4 months (so suppressing T) then going off to allow T levels to shoot back might be the way to go - then repeat cycle. This would be the opposite of what a body builder would do taking T to bulk up muscle, the endocrine system shuts down natural T production because it senses there is already enough T in the system.

View attachment 149032
Interesting in that nose size can be affected by hormones with it shrinking for MtFs. Her/His lips are gorgeous as a female but they are distinctly unhelpful in terms of presenting as male but I would love those lips either personally or, well, I wish that he had been able to be content with being so attractive and Goddess bless him but he was perfect and just wait on that quote about "all the men in my family have great hair...." Not for long.

Does anyone know where this guy posted his before and after pics? I haven't even checked to see if there are FtM threads related to baldness.
 

Marky

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Interesting in that nose size can be affected by hormones with it shrinking for MtFs. Her/His lips are gorgeous as a female but they are distinctly unhelpful in terms of presenting as male but I would love those lips either personally or, well, I wish that he had been able to be content with being so attractive and Goddess bless him but he was perfect and just wait on that quote about "all the men in my family have great hair...." Not for long.

Does anyone know where this guy posted his before and after pics? I haven't even checked to see if there are FtM threads related to baldness.
https://www.reddit.com/user/izalex
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I think that both of you present nicely regardless of terminology.... You both clearly have lots of energy in those pics and I love the reference to the green goddess who attaches herself to us as a vehicle of our Goddess above and yes, cannabis can be a gal's best friend and I always got and get a strong feminine vibe from it. As is the motto of my people, YMMV.... Yes, I am a bit new age-y and like Mr. Bridgeburn, I grew up in a fundamentalist, southern household. I moved up to DC to get away from all of that and just like Michael Corleone:

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in. - YouTube

Or at least they tried....
 
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Marky

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No worries glad to exchange info and contribute to the research, without these public forums we could never do this.

So what's your story - when did you decide you're non-binary, but have a female preference? And still got married with four kids??
Voting for Trump?
 

John Difool

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It's no so black & white unfortunately. Bica over time seems to bring renasculinazation and all the negative effects that it helped combat in the first place just maybe because all these free T are here, up to twice as much and then AR upregulation brings you downhill? And because blood work provides no indication about what it does at the AR level you are left guessing what's next. Only CPA provides hormonal feedback. This doctor provides many anecdotal facts based on his patients. He also tends to attribute things that were published in the recent literature as its own inventions. Granted his colleagues are even worse by just lazily following WPATH guidelines. His recommendation on P4 is very arbitrary too. I adopted his "method" switching from spironolactone to Bica and got those negative effects a few months later.

I don't believe in monotherapy to fight hairloss. E2 local seems to work well but that's not enough. I am back on spironolactone but contemplating Bica (or Enza) with Eplerenone in combination with E2.

I check my blood levels monthly. @JaneyElizabeth You sound a responsible person why don't you? I will add DHEA test and figure out if I am getting DHT production from the adrenal gland (backdoor pathway) then experiment by gradually increasing abiraterone acetate dosage (in conjunction with prednisone). Crossing fingers that I don't have to do that but still monitoring.

Topically I am on similar regimen as @Pegasus2 and this has helped in the neogenesis department.

As for estrogen: E3 topical on scalp. E2 injections subq. E1 E2 E3 P4 on face. Optionally P4 & E1 on breasts.
 
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Androgenic Alpaca

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It's no so black & white unfortunately. Bica over time seems to bring renasculinazation and all the negative effects that it helped combat in the first place just maybe because all these free T are here, up to twice as much and then AR upregulation brings you downhill? And because blood work provides no indication about what it does at the AR level you are left guessing what's next. Only CPA provides hormonal feedback. This doctor provides many anecdotal facts based on his patients. He also tends to attribute things that were published in the recent literature as its own inventions. Granted his colleagues are even worse by just lazily following WPATH guidelines. His recommendation on P4 is very arbitrary too. I adopted his "method" switching from spironolactone to Bica and got those negative effects a few months later.

I don't believe in monotherapy to fight hairloss. E2 local seems to work well but that's not enough. I am back on spironolactone but contemplating Bica (or Enza) with Eplerenone in combination with E2.

I check my blood levels monthly. @JaneyElizabeth You sound a responsible person why don't you? I will add DHEA test and figure out if I am getting DHT production from the adrenal gland (backdoor pathway) then experiment by gradually increasing abiraterone acetate dosage (in conjunction with prednisone). Crossing fingers that I don't have to do that but still monitoring.

Topically I am on similar regimen as @Pegasus2 and this has helped in the neogenesis department.

As for estrogen: E3 topical on scalp. E2 injections subq. E1 E2 E3 P4 on face. Optionally P4 & E1 on breasts.
Are you doing a full MtF transition? Also, I've got to imagine you've had lots of hair regrowth by now with everything you're doing
 
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