Finansteride - is it worth it?

[Rawtashk]

Just popping in to add a positive story to the discussion.

I've been on it for over 3 years, and I've had great success with no (or very minor, depending on who you ask) side effects. I can vouch for its effectiveness against aggressive balding. I'm the only male on either side of my family that has their hair at age 27. My younger brother is 23 and he has less hair than I do (he also just started on dutasteride a few months back, also with no sides as of yet)

I'd feel so much more positive about finasteride if I could see other guys posting similar stories...but to be honest, you seem to be pretty much one of only a few people who report anything genuinely positive without sides. I don't buy the 'but guys who it works for don't come back on the net' story - there are so many people who've tested finasteride and documented it from the start only to run into problems.

I don't really see how that doesn't make sense to you. Why would the average person go online and make posts about something that works just fine? I have owned a Canon T2i camera for over a year. I love it, but I've never once posted anywhere online about how awesome of a camera it is.

Also, there are PLENTY of finasteride studies done by people other than Merk. For example
Three-year safety and efficacy data on the use of finasteride
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7510911
The excellent safety profile and sustained clinical efficacy, over thirty-six months, of daily treatment with finasteride 5 mg recommend finasteride as a low-risk medical option
(Yes, this was a treatment for BHP, but they used finasteride, and at a FIVE mg dosage, not .5 or 1mg)

Or we can just go with a 1mg study on Japanese males with male pattern baldness
Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1?mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21980923
Adverse reactions occurred in 0.7% (23/3177) of men


So, here is what we have"
A finasteride study done by Tokyo Memorial Clinic, NOT Merk.
3177 men took 1mg finasteride daily for 3 years and 5 months.
87.1% of these men experienced hair regrowth
Out of 3177 men, only 23 had any reported side effects. That's POINT SEVEN PERCENT.

Say all you want about Merk being corrupt and lying, but this is a large scale study done by someone OTHER than Merk....and it happens to back up every thing that Merk reported in their studies!

Does this mean that no one will ever get sides? No. Does it mean that PSEs are a myth? No. It means that it is unlikely that you'll get them.


Also...just as another point of interest...in the Merk study there were .7% of men that reported a difficulty getting an erection. Turns out those .7% of the guys happened to also be in the placebo group! Pretty sure a sugar pill didn't cause that problem....

 

[MJUK]

Good post. It is hard to argue with solid scientific studies but people focus on the horror stories.

I know 1,500 people die driving each year in horrible circumstances but I still drive my car to work. It is a very similar situation with finasteride. Vocal unfortuate horror stories and the silent majority.

That said, i'm going to have a couple of blood tests a year to keep an eye on my DHT, Testostrone and Estrogen level.

 

[UKguy84]

I'm into my 5th weekof finasteride, only side was ball ache in left ball about 5 days after starting. Mite not of even been the finasteride, my left ball has ached a few times before, but after cutting does to 0.5 it went away so who can tell really.

so thats now gone anyway ive got no penis problems its hard to keep down most of the time to be honest.
My pals just started it aswell, i'd says hes nw3 and hes devoloping a big bald spot on his crown at 28.
I asked how he was yesterday and all fine with him aswell, maybe been on it a week

whether or not something more sinister will arrise from taking finasteride in the future well i dont know, but i'm 100% happy so far! a positive experience to start with for sure. I was expecting to lose the use of my dick within a week.

 

[Cali PokerDealer]

I plan on posting a "Tell your story" around here once I get a little bit of more time in, but I am on my 40th day on finasteride, and have had 0 side effects to report.

 

[gh05]

I don't really see how that doesn't make sense to you. Why would the average person go online and make posts about something that works just fine? I have owned a Canon T2i camera for over a year. I love it, but I've never once posted anywhere online about how awesome of a camera it is.

Not more analogies! To be honest, I don't see how what I said doesn't make sense to you. Out of the people who I have seen document their progress on finasteride from the start, there pretty much always seem to be side effects. I wish that more of those stories were positive but generally they are not.

These studies therefore don't mean a lot to me. Even more so because they aren't long term. The number of people who have developed sides after many years on the drug only to then have to quit and lose all their hair rapidly (which would be much harder than losing at a normal rate) tells me that there is not enough information on the long term safety of the drug. There are very good doctors out there who would not want their patients going near the drug...endocrinologists and even fertility doctors describing it as a poison. Only yesterday I waysreading a thread on this board where two guys were chatting about they were having fertility issues and basically had to wait an unknown amount of time for their semen to thicken up so they would stand a better chance of conceiving. There are SO many unknowns about finasteride usage and it's completely ignorant to just close your eyes to the fact that the proportion of people who have documented their usage from the start and run into side effects seems to be MUCH higher than what studies report.

I'm not totally against finasteride usage - hell, i wish it were simpler - but the fact is that by taking it as a man, you have less powerful androgens in your body, more estrogen and the potential for health troubles to arise as a result on an 'altered'l endocrine system....even in people for which it inititally seems to be working for without problems.

 

[TravisB]

Yah, when taking finasteride, you risk going bald (due to dropping it) AND being impotent. It's far much worse than being ONLY bald if you ask me. Of course I'm not saying that it's 100% certain that you'll be impotent, it's only a risk, because things can just go good and you'll have both hair and working d*ck. I'll be trying RUM, but I'm also not sure what effect it'll have on me. The first time I experience some serious sides, I'm dropping it immediately.

FDA approval doesn't mean sh*t really. Stuff like Vioxx got approved too (and surely they were doing the accurate trials before approving it) , just to be removed from the market few years later due to many deaths from it.

 

[Rawtashk]

TravisB, you continually toss aside large scale studies that don't line up with what you believe. I can tell you that 2+2=4, but if you believe that 2 is actually 3, then you're going to tell me that the answer is 6. There lies the main problem.

I'm not sure why you would toss aside the reports of people that are experts in their field. I'm a network admin, and I'd like to think that I know more about computers and tech stuff than the normal person. Same goes for medical people that run these tests.

As for long term tests....what about a 10 year follow up?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21910805

There aren't going to be any number of long-term studies just based on the fact that this drug hasn't been out there for too long, it's just a fact of life, and I don't think it's that big of a fact.

Your comment of "you're going to lose it anyway" might be true, but it's not that simple. Most men like having hair. It gives you a more youthful appearance AND leads to better job success. You buid your career accolades in your 20s-30s, which is when bald guys usually lose their hair. Keeping it around as long as possible is advantageous in many many ways.

What about people that have lost a limb or a digit? I bet you they wouldn't say "Well, I was going to lose it anyway, so I probably just have just chopped it off 10 years sooner" Now, granted, that's not the same as hair, but you still get the idea. (my neighbor is missing 2 digits on his right hand....and he still gets around just fine, so don't tell me that a digit is required to live a full life).

And, in case you doubt my statements on being more successful with hair....a quick google search turned this up
http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies ... ceos_N.htm

(from 2008)
•If elected, John McCain would be the first bald U.S. president since Dwight Eisenhower. To be fair, baldness, unlike height, can be a matter of opinion. At 71, some might say McCain is doing OK in the hair department for his age group. But pictures of 42 presidents indicate that less than 25% were bald or balding, when statistically it should be at least half.

•There are 41 male state governors. Those who are bald or balding make up less than 20% and, yes, that includes the aptly named John Baldacci of Maine. The hair-loss club dropped a governor Wednesday when New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer announced he would resign after being linked as a client to a prostitution ring. He will be replaced by Lt. Gov. David Paterson, who is not bald. Only 10% to 20% of the 84 male U.S. senators are bald or balding.

•Among corporate CEOs, women run four of the largest 125 companies on the Fortune 500. USA TODAY examined photos of the men and considered about 25% to be bald or balding. Bald men running the nation's largest companies include Chevron's David O'Reilly, Home Depot's Francis Blake, Morgan Stanley's John Mack and Goldman Sachs' Lloyd Blankfein.

•It may be more difficult to be bald and extremely rich. Warren Buffett, the richest man in the world, according to Forbes magazine, has lost hair in the past year but at 77 still retains a respectable amount. The richest American on the Forbes 400 list who is truly bald is No. 15 Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. The response of "no comment" was as much a male pattern among CEOs as was their hairline, and Microsoft was among the large corporations with bald or balding CEOs that did not respond to USA TODAY's requests.

 

[gh05]

Rawtashk...you're sounding more and more like a salesman for a drug every day. Honestly, I read your posts in complete disbelief sometimes.

The '10 year follow up'...is of a small group of men...has no real detail and basically is pretty damn meaningless - I think even you know that. Not a big deal you say - it is a big deal to those who get side effects after a few years...some prolonged, some leaving them unable to do things which a healthy body should and just because they believed the drug could safely kee their hair. Fact remains, very rarely do i ever see someone documenting their usage from the start and not get any side effects. Something is not right about the numbers and that is quite apparent to a lot of people.

I read Dr Rassmans 'balding blog' regularly - he is obviously a big proponent of finasteride - but even he has said things like in his experience the thinner semen side effect is quite a bit more common than the studies suggest - maybe more like 15% to 20%.

There is a lot to be suspicious about. End of the day you have more estrogen in your body than typical guy of your age and health.

 

[IrishFella]

Rawtashk...you're sounding more and more like a salesman for a drug every day. Honestly, I read your posts in complete disbelief sometimes.

The '10 year follow up'...is of a small group of men...has no real detail and basically is pretty damn meaningless - I think even you know that. Not a big deal you say - it is a big deal to those who get side effects after a few years...some prolonged, some leaving them unable to do things which a healthy body should and just because they believed the drug could safely kee their hair. Fact remains, very rarely do i ever see someone documenting their usage from the start and not get any side effects. Something is not right about the numbers and that is quite apparent to a lot of people.

I read Dr Rassmans 'balding blog' regularly - he is obviously a big proponent of finasteride - but even he has said things like in his experience the thinner semen side effect is quite a bit more common than the studies suggest - maybe more like 15% to 20%.

There is a lot to be suspicious about. End of the day you have more estrogen in your body than typical guy of your age and health.

He's sounding more and more like a drug rep because he is quoting official statistics?

This forum is full of paranoia it's not even funny.

 

[kthxbi]

don't regret it even slightly. i've been on fincar from inhouse since a week or so before i hit 19, december last year, at which point i was a HEAVY NW2, maybe early stages NW3. it's now been 11 months- just on the tail end of my second shed now but i luckily caught it just in time that neither shed made any visible impact on my hair. i'd say from having a good look after washing my hair that i'm now a... well, my hairline went from nearly a U shape to a thin on the edges but not bad looking V. it's been a long time since i've updated my thread so i'm just gunna hold out til december now and then do a year update to let people know.

BUT ANYWAY:
sides: had the occasional (once every few weeks) ballache over the course of about 2 months, 3 months, a couple months into treatment. nausea and brainfog for the first 2 weeks. other than that nothing. had a new ladyfriend since summer who could tell you that my pecker's in perfect working order and any moodswings i have i'd put down to the fact that i did way too many uppers a few years back.

i know i've spoken from a purely personal standpoint but as someone who was probably in the exact same situation as you are, a year ago, i'd say take the plunge. i've never looked back. i barely even check these forums nowadays.

 

[gh05]

He's sounding more and more like a drug rep because he is quoting official statistics?

This forum is full of paranoia it's not even funny.

For posting numerous articles on the fantastic success of men with hair and misfortune of those without hair AMONGST the constant posting of links to a propecia selling website AMONGST the constant anaologies 'more chance of' ....if you've been following the forums then you would know that there are people who doubt Rawtashk's credibility, 'm sitting on the fence here, but frankly it's like the same sh*t sales pitch that i read on the belgravia centre website. There is a lot of doubt with these 'official studies' by doctors all over the world and not only that but the links posted dont actually really go into any detail or evaluate long term safety.

 

[TravisB]

I wonder how they even evaluate the occurence of side effects in test subjects? Are they doing accurate studies of their organisms, or do they evaluate it through having the participants to fill the questionnaires? If it's the second option, many people can feel okay, or don't notice the sides, or think that they are not finasteride related, or even not write the truth (it's embarassing to confess that your dick doesn't work), but internally they can be f*cked.

Seriously, I've seen that nearly every Finasteride user (even the ones that are happy to use it, and it helped their hair) says that he experience/experienced some (even mild) side effects.

If Finasteride was so good, then there would not have been so many internet balding communities, full of people who take Finasteride but still are not pleased with it. There also wouldn't been the whole community dedicated only to it's side effects!

Anticipating Rawtashk's response (every drug has sides! even Paracetamol! blah blah blah), show me the site full of people experiencing Paracetamol (or any other commonly used drug) sides, similar to propeciahelp.

There are also many independent studies about NEGATIVE effects of finasteride - it's worth reading, strong medical evidence:

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8

 

[Rawtashk]

I could go on and on and on about how it literally makes 0 difference to me if you take finasteride or not. Your hair, or lack of it, makes absolutely no difference to me. I also stand to gain nothing from you using finasteride. My salary as a Network Specialist II will not increase or decrease based on your using it or not using it.


I find it almost amusing how I post out paragraph long statements quoting different researches and statistical facts....and the apparent comeback to them is "You're probably a salesperson" or "Hmm...but we don't know HOW the data was gathered!". Well, I would imagine that medical studies have certain requirements and checks/balances to make sure that they are legit. I imagine you watching TV and going "But HOW did they get that 5 star crash rating!?" or "But HOW does cheerios reduce your cholesterol" or "But WHAT is the softness rating the Kleenex used to claim that they are the softest on your nose!?"

 

[HowDoYouKnow]

Thanks for all your replies. Too bad it turned into a thread about whether Rawtashk is a salesman for Finansteride or not.

I think you provide a lot of interesting information Rawtashk, and I think that many are thankful for your dedication in this forum.

 

[abcdefg]

Every man wants to keep all the hair he can. I think if your hair loss is very slow maybe your better off waiting a few years for a safer way of dealing with androgens instead of trying the way propecia handles it. Otherwise its just your personal decision there will always be people on both sides preaching one way or the other. Its hard to argue that lowering DHT long term sounds like a good idea even if it has no outside noticeable effects so far other then the rare ones. Also throw in the fact the official study went to 5 years so after that your not even sure if you will keep your hair or start losing it again.
I plan on waiting longer before resorting to propecia, but if it gets bad enough I would try it. I went to a dermatologist and he told me he had tons of men on propecia although most of them were older then me. He said its a very safe drug and I honestly believe him or a doctor with lots of experience from patients over some guys in a forum. The guys in the forums very well might be right but its the minority for sure.

 

[Belmondo]

[...] I have some general questions about finansteride. Is it really worth taking? [...]

Million dollar question.

The best possible way to deal with male pattern baldness is to accept it. It's in your genes and there's nothing wrong about it. If, however, you feel uncomfortable with it, finasteride is the best thing we've got. I suggest you try minoxidil first and see if it works for you; if it doesn't, then go for finasteride but be aware that there may be some serious side effects (incl. ED).

In my case and as a veteran finasteride user, I bless the day I found out about proscar. Everyone is different, though, and only your doctor (dermatologist) can say if this is right for you or not.