finasteride ACCELERATING male pattern baldness - TRUE/FALSE

[@CMP1]

I have seen some guys on here responding to those who are experiencing worsening hairless, recession, shedding etc etc with the idea that finasteride is actually kicking their male pattern baldness into overdrive.

Surely to god this is not true, as it completely contradicts the purpose of taking finasteride in the first place?

 

[Wolf Pack]

So you think the FDA approved a medication for hair loss which can accelerates hair loss? You're always better with it than without it. The guys who are losing on finasteride have aggressive hair loss and finasteride can't control it or it could be a shed. finasteride also doesn't lose effectiveness, chemical reaction of 90% type 2 DHT inhibition will ALWAYS happen, but the balding process can take over after some time for some individuals.

If you keep losing on finasteride post one year, you need to either:

-Transplant for those areas that are "giving up" and stay with finasteride

-Consider something stronger or different to add or replace such as Minoxidil, dutasteride, RU. All have pros and cons

-Do nothing and accept the loss

 

[@CMP1]

So you think the FDA approved a medication for hair loss which can accelerates hair loss? You're always better with it than without it. The guys who are losing on finasteride have aggressive hair loss and finasteride can't control it or it could be a shed. finasteride also doesn't lose effectiveness, chemical reaction of 90% type 2 DHT inhibition will ALWAYS happen, but the balding process can take over after some time for some individuals.

If you keep losing on finasteride post one year, you need to either:

-Transplant for those areas that are "giving up" and stay with finasteride

-Consider something stronger or different to add or replace such as Minoxidil, dutasteride, RU. All have pros and cons

-Do nothing and accept the loss

Thanks WolfPack, appreciate the concise response. It was worrying to see some people respond to threads claiming that finasteride was accelerating male pattern baldness.

Admittedly, I have been on finasteride for 8 months and my hair has steadily got worse to the point I'm worrying if it will ever return to the point before I took it.....HOWEVER I have heard that a LOT of peoples hair gets far worse before it gets better?

 

[bilboswaggins]

You're always better with it than without it. The guys who are losing on finasteride have aggressive hair loss and finasteride can't control it or it could be a shed.

But the thing is most of the people who say their hair got worse on finasteride are ones who had minimal hair loss before starting (e.g slight recession) and then experienced quick hair loss while on the drug. It can't be a coincidence that all these people were hit with "aggressive hair loss" right after starting finasteride. A possible cause of this that I've seen mentioned many times is reflex androgenicity. This is when suppression of DHT causes your body to seek equilibrium again by upregulating your hormones and androgen receptors.

It is easy to say that finasteride can't make your hair worse and if you lose hair on finasteride, you would have lost it or even more off finasteride. But at the end of the day we really don't know. I'm not hating on finasteride, I think it can be a miracle drug for many and side effects are unfairly exaggerated. However,there are many who claim that finasteride worsened their male pattern baldness and I don't see how we can just discount them all as liars.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Thanks WolfPack, appreciate the concise response. It was worrying to see some people respond to threads claiming that finasteride was accelerating male pattern baldness.

Admittedly, I have been on finasteride for 8 months and my hair has steadily got worse to the point I'm worrying if it will ever return to the point before I took it.....HOWEVER I have heard that a LOT of peoples hair gets far worse before it gets better?

You're right, it does tend to get worse before it gets better for some individuals. However, my gut feeling is 8 months is a little too long? You should have stabilised by now. Give it 4 more months then consider other treatment imo. Also be 100% certain you are losing ground my taking pictures. Ideally a doctor would keep tabs on areas that are miniaturising.

How old are you and hair loss history? Norwood?

- - - Updated - - -

But the thing is most of the people who say their hair got worse on finasteride are ones who had minimal hair loss before starting (e.g slight recession) and then experienced quick hair loss while on the drug. It can't be a coincidence that all these people were hit with "aggressive hair loss" right after starting finasteride. A possible cause of this that I've seen mentioned many times is reflex androgenicity. This is when suppression of DHT causes your body to seek equilibrium again by upregulating your hormones and androgen receptors.

It is easy to say that finasteride can't make your hair worse and if you lose hair on finasteride, you would have lost it or even more off finasteride. But at the end of the day we really don't know. I'm not hating on finasteride, I think it can be a miracle drug for many and side effects are unfairly exaggerated. However,there are many who claim that finasteride worsened their male pattern baldness and I don't see how we can just discount them all as liars.

I am in my late 20s, started on finasteride as a Norwood 2.5, thick else where. Been a Norwood 2.5 since mid 20s and no regimen. I haven't personally had any shed/worsening on the 4 months I have been on it. Hair is much thicker like a wig and I have intermediate hairs all on my hairline. I.e Not true vellus nor terminal.

I am not saying discount those individuals as liars who are saying finasteride accelerated their hair loss! I am trying to explain it rationally. When does someone usually get on finasteride? When they are CURRENTLY experiencing loss of hair. It's not easy to heal areas where DHT has taken hold already. I think Minoxidil is better for this. Reflex androgenicity has never been proven directly in a trial. I am aware that receptors can become more sensitive over time but I highly doubt it would happen in a few months of finasteride. It's likely to be a long term thing.

 

[smyth01]

But the thing is most of the people who say their hair got worse on finasteride are ones who had minimal hair loss before starting (e.g slight recession) and then experienced quick hair loss while on the drug. It can't be a coincidence that all these people were hit with "aggressive hair loss" right after starting finasteride. A possible cause of this that I've seen mentioned many times is reflex androgenicity. This is when suppression of DHT causes your body to seek equilibrium again by upregulating your hormones and androgen receptors.

It is easy to say that finasteride can't make your hair worse and if you lose hair on finasteride, you would have lost it or even more off finasteride. But at the end of the day we really don't know. I'm not hating on finasteride, I think it can be a miracle drug for many and side effects are unfairly exaggerated. However,there are many who claim that finasteride worsened their male pattern baldness and I don't see how we can just discount them all as liars.

We know that EVERY study done to date has shown a reduction in DHT.

 

[bilboswaggins]

When does someone usually get on finasteride? When they are CURRENTLY experiencing loss of hair. It's not easy to heal areas where DHT has taken hold already.

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. These people are not complaining that finasteride has failed to revert their Norwood 2 or Norwood 3 back to nw1. They claim that finasteride has accelerated their loss when all they were hoping for was maintenance.

I am in my late 20s, started on finasteride as a Norwood 2.5, thick else where. Been a Norwood 2.5 since mid 20s and no regimen. I haven't personally had any shed/worsening on the 4 months I have been on it. Hair is much thicker like a wig and I have intermediate hairs all on my hairline. I.e Not true vellus nor terminal.

Just wondering are you sure you dont have a mature hairline? If you are a thick 2.5 and your hair has not progressed for years

- - - Updated - - -

We know that EVERY study done to date has shown a reduction in DHT.

DHT is not the only cause of hair loss. I've heard that finasteride users have less DHT than even castrates so if DHT was the only factor in male pattern baldness, finasteride would work for 100% of people. There is obviously something else going on here.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Not sure what point you are trying to make here. These people are not complaining that finasteride has failed to revert their Norwood 2 or Norwood 3 back to nw1. They claim that finasteride has accelerated their loss when all they were hoping for was maintenance.

Maintenance of healthy hairs. Some of these guys might assume maintenance means holding onto dying hairs. The OP for this, I remember his pictures now, i'd hardly call it acceleration. It's more or less the same. I'm on my mobile currently so can't recheck easily. I'm not disputing finasteride doesn't stop hair loss for a minority, but I don't believe the acceleration bit sorry until proven. No trial on finasteride has mentioned it.

just wondering are you sure you dont have a mature hairline? If you are a thick 2.5 and your hair has not progressed for years

Definitely not. Juvenile and mature hairline differs by max an inch. This has gone beyond a bit. Also a little thinning can be seen beyond the current hairline and few 'strong hairs' left behind from where the line was.

I'm just your stereotypical balding guy, balding slowly in mid 20s, responding to finasteride. I'm 'unlucky' to be balding at this age compared to others in real life but compared to many on this forum who start losing at 18 - that's real aggression. No wonder there is frustration about treatment.

 

[bornwithacurse224]

I thought finasteride just made your hair shed because your hair follicles are forced into a new cycle and they shed all the hairs that are finished growing so they can start over again

 

[Wolf Pack]

DHT is not the only cause of hair loss. I've heard that finasteride users have less DHT than even castrates so if DHT was the only factor in male pattern baldness, finasteride would work for 100% of people. There is obviously something else going on here.

You still got 10% type 2 dht on finasteride - that could be enough to screw up those who have sensitive follicles. dutasteride takes out 98% of type 2 dht, but then takes out type 1, which may be unsafe long term, we don't know.

Also even if u get castrated after male pattern baldness starts,*you still lose hair I think but slowly. That's despite test n dht falling over 90 percent. I think this is because the adrenal gland will produce test and it might be converted to dht. I'm guessing here but going back to theory in medicine.

 

[@CMP1]

Well the one thing I can safely confirm is that I can see a TON of tiny hairs (only visible under direct light) sprouting up all over the shop but cannot tell if these are fast-miniaturizing ones or new ones coming through?

I started finasteride at the end of June 2014....and only in the last two months have things REALLY started to look rubbish. Before finasteride i was easily an NW1.5...now I'm safely an NW2.

Would it not just be far safer to just go straight to dutasteride?

 

[Wolf Pack]

Yes, as mentioned, wait a few months or go on dutasteride now. Keep everyone updated and good luck.

 

[Armando Jose]

I have seen some guys on here responding to those who are experiencing worsening hairless, recession, shedding etc etc with the idea that finasteride is actually kicking their male pattern baldness into overdrive.

Surely to god this is not true, as it completely contradicts the purpose of taking finasteride in the first place?

It is possible that finas, in people without real problems with common hairloss, be contraproductive. IMHO finas don't must be preventive in this issue.

 

[eenrak]

5mg of Finasteride takes out 69% of dht, not 90%. Please stop promoting false numbers, or link where you've got your god damn information from.

Male Pattern Baldness does stop after castration, but the studies showed that the hair loss did not reverse. Hence, removing DHT will not cause revival of already damaged hair follicles.

Finasteride could accelerate male pattern baldness in those who quit treatment. I remember a lady in some conference, talking about how Finasteride could potentially upregulate hair follicles sensivity to DHT over time. How much truth there is in such theory I don't know, I don't there has been any cinical studies showing this. However, your chances on keeping your hair is more than doubled if you're on Finasteride compared to placebo.

To Wolf Packs defence, he is saying type 2 dht is inhibited by 90%. However, there is only one type of dht, but what he means is that the type 2 alpha reductase's dht production is reduced by 90%. But his point still holds. Type 2 is the one dominant in hair follicles whereas type 1 is expressed highly in for example the brain (type 2 is not). That is probably why finasteride and Dutasteride don't differ that much in their results. Hairloss is not linearly correlated to serum dht levels.

An argument against up-regulation of androgen receptors is that when stopping finasteride, hairloss resumes to the state it would have been like without finasteride. Of course you can't check this on the same person as you wouldn't know where he would have been without starting finasteride in the first place, but when averaging the hairloss progression speed of many men not on finasteride, my point stands very strong.

 

[bilboswaggins]

An argument against up-regulation of androgen receptors is that when stopping finasteride, hairloss resumes to the state it would have been like without finasteride.

How on earth can you deduce this

Of course you can't check this on the same person as you wouldn't know where he would have been without starting finasteride in the first place, but when averaging the hairloss progression speed of many men not on finasteride, my point stands very strong.

well OBVIOUSLY hairloss progression on AVERAGE is faster in men not on finasteride than those on treatment.... otherwise no one would be taking the drug! We are discussing here the possibility of a minority of users who have male pattern baldness accelerated by finasteride

 

[eenrak]

How on earth can you deduce this



well OBVIOUSLY hairloss progression on AVERAGE is faster in men not on finasteride than those on treatment.... otherwise no one would be taking the drug! We are discussing here the possibility of a minority of users who have male pattern baldness accelerated by finasteride

I didn't deduce it. In controlled trials it was shown that hairloss resumes to the state you would have been in without finasteride.
You clearly didn't understand the previous post saying that acceleration could be due to up regulation of the receptors. I simply gave an argument refuting the idea that the up regulation occurs. I did not discuss whether or not finasteride accelerates hairloss in general. However, science tells us that it doesn't.

Edit : you obviously didn't understand my post. If you know the average speed by which people recede not on finasteride you can predict where a person on finasteride would have been without finasteride. Understand? So comparing what you predict to what actually happens when stopping finasteride, you get the same outcome(this is proven). This suggests that up regulation does not happen. If it did, the prediction would have underestimated the severity of the hairloss after stopping finasteride.
I can't make it anymore clear, hope you got it, Swaggins.

 

[bilboswaggins]

I didn't deduce it. In controlled trials it was shown that hairloss resumes to the state you would have been in without finasteride.
You clearly didn't understand the previous post saying that acceleration could be due to up regulation of the receptors. I simply gave an argument refuting the idea that the up regulation occurs. I did not discuss whether or not finasteride accelerates hairloss in general. However, science tells us that it doesn't.

how can trials definitively show that your hairloss resumes to its previous state if you get off finasteride? There is just no way to compare how fast your hairloss was b4 the trial and after you stop finasteride. The only thing they can measure is the level of DHT which I presume went back to pre-finasteride lvls. Even so, that is irrevelant since we are discussing upregulation of receptors

 

[eenrak]

how can trials definitively show that your hairloss resumes to its previous state if you get off finasteride? There is just no way to compare how fast your hairloss was b4 the trial and after you stop finasteride. The only thing they can measure is the level of DHT which I presume went back to pre-finasteride lvls. Even so, that is irrevelant since we are discussing upregulation of receptors

If you don't believe in statistics, I highly suggest that you begin a NOFAP regimen exclusively.

To be completely Nazi, if they want to they CAN measure if there is an increased number receptors. They haven't done it, but it has been done with other receptors involved in for example cocaine binding in the synapse, where they show that there is an up regulation when taking cocaine for a prolonged period of time.

 

[bilboswaggins]

If you don't believe in statistics, I highly suggest that you begin a NOFAP regimen exclusively.

To be completely Nazi, if they want to they CAN measure if there is an increased number receptors. They haven't done it, but it has been done with other receptors involved in for example cocaine binding in the synapse, where they show that there is an up regulation when taking cocaine for a prolonged period of time.

You have provided no statistics whatsoever. You have just made claims that are unsubstantiated and probably can't be proven anyway. I said from the start I was not hating on finasteride, I know that it works for majority of people. I am merely suggesting that there are a lot of things about finasteride and DHT in general that we have still not accounted for. Another example would be the shedding which was not even mentioned in Merck's clinical trials yet has been accepted as a common occurrence in taking the drug. There is no need to insult me by recommending a NOFAP regimen.

 

[Wolf Pack]

Eeerak uses evidence to justify things - that's the sensible way. The forum was filled with people that have aggressive hair loss, body image and anxiety disorders, depression, hypochondriacs, not to mention trolls with their own agenda.

Bilbo I am not saying you are any of these things (you're sensible too) but that Eenrak is correct, the trials haven't shown acceleration. The thousands of people in the trial, I feel they would have picked it up. Shedding also on finasteride is not proven. minoxidil puts your hair into anagen so shed can occur. finasteride itself doesn't interfere with the hair cycles.