Finasteride induced gynecomastia

[Ende]

What about other side effects, did you have any?

 

[Hairforever]

I had some ED but the 'gyno' was the worst for me. However, the worst was when I came off Propecia. I had panic attacks, and terrible aches and pains and burning sensations down and across my back plus awful fatigue which has never completely left me. I was diagnosed as having fibromyalgia which I'm convinced was brought on by the effect of finasteride on my hormone levels and general biochemistry.

 

[HT55]

Oh, you shut up. Propecia single handedly wrecked my body in 4 months. I was 6 months off the drug without getting any better. Your HPTA is already screwed when you develop secondary hypogonadism, although it's possible to recover it with the right treatment, it's difficult and dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. It's much safer to supress it with TRT, which by the way is reversible. While it's usually true what you say about steroids like androstanolone possibly shutting down your own testosterone production, it's not relevant when you're using finasteride and are suffering from side effects due to elevated estrogen level. You've DHT deficiency if this happens, and elevated estrogen level is way more dangerous, as it supresses LH and testosterone, which in the end leads to secondary hypogonadism if untreated.

Tamoxifen?? Nolvadex only blocks the estrogen receptors, and doesn't take care of the actual problem, as Arimidex does. What do you think will happen if you use nolva when your body is converting alot of testosterone to estrogen? It will accumulate and make it worse. Body builders who are using this for PCT also reports loss of libido while using it, and it is known to clot your blood.

And I tell you what's f****ing amazing. No doctors believed me when I sought help for propecia side effects. Noone would help me. I took care of it myself, and have almost recovered.

You are clueless, you are quoting the internet and not putting it all together.
You started reading about this stuff and think you are an expert, you are FAR from it and what you have said backs it up even more.

I know exactly what Tamox (SERM) and Arimidex (AI)do, Tamox at 40mg/day will knock out Gyno if you get it in time as it blocks estrogen at the breast, Arimidex will lower your E2 level throughout your body.

Using Tamox would have stimulated your Pituitary into making more LH and FSH so it would HELP you recover from secondary HYpoG while your approach probably made it worse. What's even worse is you are reccomending it to other people pretending you know something other than what you read on the internet ( and interpreted incorrectly) in the last month or so.

Wow so guys who were taking a ton of steroids have libido problems from Tamox, I know it couldn't be the fact that they had T levels around 4000 ng/dl and are now down to MAYBE 500 ng/dl during PCT now could it, nope MUST BE the Tamox, lol

Why do you think every guy who has a clue keeps Tamox on hand DURING a cycle, it's because it Gyno starts to develop Tamox will clear it up IF you use it in time.



You say your HPTA was screwed up, I'm guessing an expert like you had some blood tests done

What were your LH< FSH, sensitive E2 and thyroid tests results as well as total T , DHT and free T levels

 

[Ende]

Oh, you shut up. Propecia single handedly wrecked my body in 4 months. I was 6 months off the drug without getting any better. Your HPTA is already screwed when you develop secondary hypogonadism, although it's possible to recover it with the right treatment, it's difficult and dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. It's much safer to supress it with TRT, which by the way is reversible. While it's usually true what you say about steroids like androstanolone possibly shutting down your own testosterone production, it's not relevant when you're using finasteride and are suffering from side effects due to elevated estrogen level. You've DHT deficiency if this happens, and elevated estrogen level is way more dangerous, as it supresses LH and testosterone, which in the end leads to secondary hypogonadism if untreated.

Tamoxifen?? Nolvadex only blocks the estrogen receptors, and doesn't take care of the actual problem, as Arimidex does. What do you think will happen if you use nolva when your body is converting alot of testosterone to estrogen? It will accumulate and make it worse. Body builders who are using this for PCT also reports loss of libido while using it, and it is known to clot your blood.

And I tell you what's f****ing amazing. No doctors believed me when I sought help for propecia side effects. Noone would help me. I took care of it myself, and have almost recovered.

You are clueless, you are quoting the internet and not putting it all together

I know exactly what Tamox (SERM) and Arimidex (AI)do, Tamox at 40mg/day will knock out Gyno if you get it in time as it blocks estrogen at the breast, Arimidex will lower your E2 level throughout your body.

Wow so guys who were taking a ton of steroids have libido problems from Tamox, I know it couldn't be the fact that they had T levels around 4000 ng/dl and are now down to MAYBE 500 ng/dl during PCT now could it, nope MUST BE the Tamox, lol

You started reading aboutt his stuff and think you are an expert, you are FAR from it and what you have said backs it up even more.

You say your HPTA was screwed up, I'm guessing an expert like you had some blood tests done

What were your LH< FSH, sensitive E2 and thyroid tests results as well as total T and free T

Yeah, sure. I'm just quoting stuff from the internet. Must have been placebo everything I've been experiencing, right. If you know the difference between arimidex and nolvadex, why the hell are you saying nolva is the solution when we're talking about finasteride induced gynecomastia? The only thing you're right about, is that the hormone levels of body builders who abuse steroids are completely wacked after a cycle, so it could be anything, although many experienced BB's have trouble when using nolva during PCT, and do fine without it. I said people have been reporting loss of libido, like people have been reporting a shitload of propecia side effects which you don't find in the leaflet. Does that make it impossible? Do you have any experience yourself? Oh, wait no, you have never experienced any side effects from propecia, and you're just bashing everyone else who say they are.

I visited an endo in november '09. LH - low normal, FSH - low normal, testosterone - low normal, estrogen - elevated, above range. He said everything else was in range, but I don't think prolactin was tested. I had severly reduced libido and ED. My breasts were growing. I could go several days without the need to shave - once a day is normal, my body hair started to fall off and my body began wasting muscles. That's what I remember while writing. The Doctor said it was nothing to worry about - because everything was in range, or almost in range, and then he cut me off. I didn't use anything else than propecia, and have never had any problems like this before propecia.

 

[Ende]

Using Tamox would have stimulated your Pituitary into making more LH and FSH so it would HELP you recover from secondary HYpoG while your approach probably made it worse. What's even worse is you are reccomending it to other people pretending you know something other than what you read on the internet ( and interpreted incorrectly) in the last month or so.

You know it all, don't you. Tell me, how does that solve the problem when you've DHT deficiency which leads to elevated estrogen level again, and again, and again?

 

[HT55]

Using Tamox would have stimulated your Pituitary into making more LH and FSH so it would HELP you recover from secondary HYpoG while your approach probably made it worse. What's even worse is you are reccomending it to other people pretending you know something other than what you read on the internet ( and interpreted incorrectly) in the last month or so.

You know it all, don't you. Tell me, how does that solve the problem when you've DHT deficiency which leads to elevated estrogen level again, and again, and again?

I sure know more than you, hell you don't even know your lab values and just take what the dr tells you as fact.

YOu say you have low normal T and high estrogen ( E2 is different from estrogen BTW) and you jumped on HRT ? Do you know how ridiculus that is ?

I also get the feeling you put yourself on HRT

 

[HT55]

Yeah, sure. I'm just quoting stuff from the internet. Must have been placebo everything I've been experiencing, right. If you know the difference between arimidex and nolvadex, why the hell are you saying nolva is the solution when we're talking about finasteride induced gynecomastia? Oh, wait no, you have never experienced any side effects from propecia, and you're just bashing everyone else who say they are.

I didn't say you m aking up the sides from the internet, I meant you are making up ways to treat them piecing together what you read

Please tell me what causes Propecia induced Gyno and how it's different from steroid induced with increased E2 levels.


I am not bashing you for having sides, I am bashing you because you really don't know what your talking about

From what i have read you have already jumped on TRT with low normal T levels and high estrogen ( I'm guessing you actually Had E2 tested)

You need to find a dr who knows what he is doing because yours does not have a clue,

 

[Ende]

Supressing the HPTA with TRT is much safer than trying to recover it on your own. The difference between steroid- and finasteride induced gynecomastia is that you have increased levels of DHT as well, when using steroids. This will take care of the balance while you block the estrogen receptors with nolvadex. You need an AI to deal with finasteride, as it's DHT deficiency which causes the trouble.

Edit:
Yes, I've been self-medicating. The other option was suicide.

 

[HT55]

Supressing the HPTA with TRT is much safer than trying to recover it on your own. The difference between steroid- and finasteride induced gynecomastia is that you have increased levels of DHT as well, when using steroids. This will take care of the balance while you block the estrogen receptors with nolvadex. You need an AI to deal with finasteride, as it's DHT deficiency which causes the trouble.

Where did you read that about finasteride and Gyno ?

Do you realize blocking Estrogen at the receptor with Nolva is the same as lowering it throughout the body with an AI as FAR AS THE BREAST is concerned ?

The AI will take out other sides such as water retention, etc but both will block GYNO

Also Arimidex is not good for getting rid of EXISTING gyno like tamox is

 

[HT55]

Edit:
Yes, I've been self-medicating. The other option was suicide.

Let's stop arguing and maybe I can help you

Did you have a sensitive E2 (estrodial ) test ? If so results ?

Chances are your increased Estrogen (E2) is the reason for your low T.

Shutting yourself down with more testosterone is not the answer at this point as I'm guessing you are young and don't want to be on drugs for life. Your HPTA is never going to restore itself while you are on TRT

.5 mg of Arimidex (POWERFUL DRUG) 3 times a week would most likely lower you estrogen issues and raise your T while not hindering your HPTA like HRT will.

What are you using for HRT and waht dosage per week ?

You REALLY NEED blood tests for LH, FSH, TSH, total T, Free T and E2

 

[HT55]

Supressing the HPTA with TRT is much safer than trying to recover it on your own.

I'm not even sure how to reply to that, Ill just be nice and say I STRONGLY disagree

Do you not have the money to visit a DR ?

Where do you live, maybe I can reccomend someone if you are near NYC

If you are going to self medicate you would be much better off raising your T levels with Arimidex or tamoxifen as they will actually help your HPTA

You really need to see a dr who specializes in hypoG IMO

EDIT
BTW I was shut down from steroids, I'm not talking out of my *** , I was able to restart my HPTA after years of being shut down

I have first hand knowledge of Clomid, Tamox, Adex and HCG as I used them all in my restart.

I had blood tests done every 30 days so i know what each drug did to my LH< FSH, E2 and T levels

I crashed a few times and it took about 16 months but my former 200 T level is now 750 over 3 years off all drugs.

 

[Ende]

What I know about finasteride and gynecomastia, is mainly from first hand experience. Your breasts would be fine with nolvadex, but elevated estrogen level causes trouble in the sexual department too. To solve that, the estrogen level needs to be lowered throughout the whole body. I've used, and recommend Andractim to remove breast lumps. I believe it's far superior to anything else.

I really appreciate you wanting to help me, but I'm in control. I'm currently dealing with elevated estrogen level and hyperprolactinaemia, which affects my libido. My main concern is erectile dysfunction due to wasted PC muscle. It's the only problem left for me, and it's getting better too. I've no interrest in restoring the HPTA at this point. And yes, you're right about arimidex. I wish I had known that when I began experimenting.

No worries man, I'm about to do another blood test, and I'm going to see an endo again this fall, just to check everything.

 

[HT55]

What I know about finasteride and gynecomastia, is mainly from first hand experience. Your breasts would be fine with nolvadex, but elevated estrogen level causes trouble in the sexual department too. To solve that, the estrogen level needs to be lowered throughout the whole body. I've used, and recommend Andractim to remove breast lumps. I believe it's far superior to anything else.

I really appreciate you wanting to help me, but I'm in control. I'm currently dealing with elevated estrogen level and hyperprolactinaemia, which affects my libido. My main concern is erectile dysfunction due to wasted PC muscle. It's the only problem left for me, and it's getting better too. I've no interrest in restoring the HPTA at this point. And yes, you're right about arimidex. I wish I had known that when I began experimenting.

No worries man, I'm about to do another blood test, and I'm going to see an endo again this fall, just to check everything.

Good luck, find an endo who knows Hypogonadism as most are diabetes specialists

 

[Ende]

Thanks. Good doctors are hard to come by. There is only two endos in my town, and I've seen one of them. I hope the other one knows what he's doing, and believe me, I'm going to raise hell when I'm recovered, for being cut off like that, and forced to do what I've done.

 

[HT55]

Thanks. Good doctors are hard to come by. There is only two endos in my town, and I've seen one of them. I hope the other one knows what he's doing, and believe me, I'm going to raise hell when I'm recovered, for being cut off like that, and forced to do what I've done.

I would call and ask him before you go

I would also consider travelling to see a good DR, what state are you in ?

You could also go to a major pharmacy and ask the pharmacist who has patients on testosterone, most of those guys aren't up on the latest methods but should have some idea

Get a list and call around, ask questions then choose your Dr


You never told me what you are using for TRT and what dose

 

[barcafan]

see dr crisler in michigan. He deals with male Hormones and has had enough patients with finasteride problems.

You should not be f*****g with your HTPA without a compedent doctors help, otherwise you'll either f*** yourself up even more, or it will take you MUCH longer to recover.

 

[dougfunny]

see dr crisler in michigan. He deals with male Hormones and has had enough patients with finasteride problems.

You should not be f****ing with your HTPA without a compedent doctors help, otherwise you'll either f*ck yourself up even more, or it will take you MUCH longer to recover.

That guy is a WACKO not a competent doctor. :smack:

 

[Ende]

I would call and ask him before you go

I would also consider travelling to see a good DR, what state are you in ?

You could also go to a major pharmacy and ask the pharmacist who has patients on testosterone, most of those guys aren't up on the latest methods but should have some idea

Get a list and call around, ask questions then choose your Dr


You never told me what you are using for TRT and what dose

Actually, I live in Europe, and one of the biggest cities in my country. The problem is I don't get help unless my T level is around 200 ng/dl, and mine were slightly above 300 ng/dl if I remember correctly. They're very strict in my country when it comes to TRT. The "normal range" was from 200 to 900 or something like that. I'm using testosterone enanthate injections, and have been using way too much, so I'm currently not doing any. I'll be injecting 100 - 125 mg a week when the T level is in range again. I started off with testosterone gel, which was great. Switched to injections due to the hassle of applyig it every day, and the risk of transferring it to others.

Btw, I see you've been on propecia for 14 years. How has it been working for you? Any regrowth?

 

[Ende]

You should not be f****ing with your HTPA without a compedent doctors help, otherwise you'll either f*ck yourself up even more, or it will take you MUCH longer to recover.

That's the RISK yes, I agree, but I'm not the one to sit and do nothing if they refuse to help me. I take care of things myself.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

How old are you, Enden, and do you do any vigorous exercise?

I know a lot of older guys have problems with testosterone getting lower (even in their late 30s) and I've often heard that heavy lifting fixes that for a lot of people.