Finasteride Losing Effect Over Time And Androgen Receptor Upregulation

[GoldenMane]

I think it's not only upregulation of AR as we get old which makes Androgenetic Alopecia more severe, it's also cumulative exposure to even low levels of DHT (and both T and all other androgens ) over all that time. if upregulation of AR is huge problem, than, old people would have strong muscles, I suppose AR in all tissues would upregulate and they would have more juvenile body.

So, remember that finasteride block only 70-80% of DHT inside hair follicles, so the renaming part those 15 to 25% can also damage hair follicles, and that is what is happening for sure.

Another important thing is that as we get older, all cells in our tissues are older, they divide by much slower rate, there are less growth factors in our organism. We call that process senescence.

Best thing to do then is use the strongest DHT blockers available as early as possible to limit that cumulative degeneration. My main point though is that the theory of finasteride/dutasteride causing AR upregulation is bunk because they don't actually reduce androgens, just DHT.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Best thing to do then is use the strongest DHT blockers available as early as possible to limit that cumulative degeneration. My main point though is that the theory of finasteride/dutasteride causing AR upregulation is bunk because they don't actually reduce androgens, just DHT.

Reducing DHT is significant. You have the same number of androgens in the body, but less androgen binding power.

This leads to "free" testosterone in the bloodstream.

 

[GoldenMane]

Reducing DHT is significant. You have the same number of androgens in the body, but less androgen binding power.

This leads to "free" testosterone in the bloodstream.

And this is bad? My concern would be aromatisation yo oestrogen but that's not a given. Regardless, high free testosterone beats the hell out of male pattern baldness and AR upregulation!

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

High free testosterone might cause AR upregulation.

Also, the speculation in this thread is just that, speculation. None of us can derive these conclusions from first principles.

 

[GoldenMane]

High free testosterone might cause AR upregulation.

Also, the speculation in this thread is just that, speculation. None of us can derive these conclusions from first principles.

Of course this is just speculation, but it's reasonably well reasoned. As for increased free testosterone possibly increasing AR upregulation, isn't that the opposite of what we should expect? We expect a reduction in hormones to lead to upregulation as a compensatory mechanism, not an increase. There's no logical reason to believe that more androgens would lead to upregulation, if anything I would expect the opposite...

 

[Armando Jose]

If upregulation of receptors is such an issue in male pattern baldness, castrates and pseudos would lose their hair too.

The problem with long term users of finasteride is, especially the younger ones, that androgen levels arent lowered enough to mantain all their hair.

I think in those cases testosterone plays a role and continues the process initatied by DHT

Wellcome to the forum.

Your assert about castrates is very interesting due this people can loss his hair,
only a few images:


http://s184.photobucket.com/user/ralphrepo/media/PopularAsians/1227046423.jpg.html

http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1349699927l/16074867.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1d/4e/48/1d4e487ac59202293ce82f4975bdd684.jpg

http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1349699927l/16074867.jpg





http://www.historytoday.com/sites/default/files/eunuchs.jpg

http://www.mingtombs.eu/o/eunu/img/group.jpg

http://www.mingtombs.eu/o/eunu/eunu.html

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/9a/a8/bb/9aa8bb7f9e2873f06ed37a70849911c8.jpg

http://mediastore.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR7/d/d/8/3/PAR137464.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/dd/1f/58/dd1f58b95f4de4ddc67937e9adfbda96.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/86/c4/9d/86c49d51c4e5174cdd99f7fee1643e69.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ef/bc/82/efbc82e2e325fbda63eaba952735e688.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e8/9d/42/e89d42b9299245839b011e33f151cbd3.jpg

BTW an important study

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.84.12.6206

 

[Kagaho]

Those pics show shaved euchnucs

Maybe you can post at least one peer reviewed long term study on this chinese euchnucs?

I mean, refuting the work done by Hamilton which BTW enjoys a broad consensus on the scientific community needs far more than random biased pics from the internet

 

[Dench57]

I've yet to see any study involving anti-androgen therapy/5ARi's and androgen receptors in hair follicles. It would certainly be illuminating, at least from my perspective. As David, I think, mentioned before, that study is never going to come. Everything else is conjecture.

 

[abcdefg]

I kind of question the whole idea of oxidative stress or premature cell aging like that as a major factor in male pattern baldness. Some people smarter then me say it is so it certainly could be, but there are some guys out there with some mighty amazing hair at like age 50+ which really makes that theory hard for me to buy into. Aging doesnt miss people if oxidative stress as part of aging caused male pattern baldness to an extent than no one would have all their hair at 50+ but some do.
Its clearly not being regulated by normal aging processes which again makes me thing its like 95 percent hormones and sensitivity. Aging to me is a cop out term when we dont know yet how something works which happens to be a lot of things still

 

[WangMQ]

I've yet to see any study involving anti-androgen therapy/5ARi's and androgen receptors in hair follicles. It would certainly be illuminating, at least from my perspective. As David, I think, mentioned before, that study is never going to come. Everything else is conjecture.

True. The studies are all about DHT/5AR/AR regulation/inflammation/PGD2 in prostate cancer over and over again...It seems that every possible angle to treat prostate cancer has been carefully studied while when it comes to hairloss they just dismiss it

There's a study about ARs in balding/non-balding scalp. That's the closest I could find.

http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-MRYX201205035.htm

（well at least that study is a proof of why transplanted follicles are free from DHT damage）

 

[abcdefg]

You have to take what you can get I guess, but I mean this study found that AR expression is different for different areas of the head? We need a study to tell us this basic info?

"The AR expressions are different between different regions.In the hair follicle bulge and infundibulum,AR expressions in hair loss area and the transitional area are obviously stronger than those in the occipital."

 

[$illy $ymphony]

Quercetin inhibits the expression and function of the androgen receptor:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11238180

Dihydroquercetin (DHQ) is available as a supplement. You may try that.
A topical with it (or rather Taxifolin) could be interesting.

 

[Alex95]

This article contradicts with what you're presenting here.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21427060/
In this article they have dosed adult male rats with pharmacological amounts of testosterone for some time and what they have found is that androgen receptors were upregulated. This proves that not only dht but if we increase our testosterone levels, it also upregulates our androgen receptors.

 

[John Andrews]

You can consider also using dutasteride once to a few times a week.

 

[Alex95]

You can consider also using dutasteride once to a few times a week.

That will increase testosterone even further. We want something that can block dht as well as lower testosterone enough just to stop hair loss.