finasteride PFS how common is it.

[I.D WALKER]

Congratulations for finding the light at the end of the long tunnel you had enduringly travelled. I experience (many, many years) of the former symptoms you described, however I somewhat surprisingly have no history of abnormal T levels and so forth. Glad you are well again.

 

[azuri]

An amazing journey to say the least.
Glad that things are back in track again for you.
i hope that you have answered many of the queries that a lot of people have and their view on finasteride overall.

 

[Aeroes]

Hi all -

For the last 14 years this forum has intentionally segregated talk of Propecia side effects to a subforum. We did this for one reason: Not all guys have problems with it. And I felt like it would do more harm than good to have a forum filled with scary posts. Thanks to these propecia lawsuit ads everywhere, I now have to deal with family members and friends (pretty much all of them) desperately losing hair, but refusing to even TRY propecia.

The statement: "Try it and see if you have any problems with it" escapes them, because of all the fear mongering. I know how human beings think, and react to things. I knew if this forum was full of posts from guys who's penises fell off after 2 hours on Propecia, literally hundreds of thousands of site browsers would never get on the most effective treatment for hair loss. And that does a disservice to everyone.

So we segregated the posts into a subforum.

Simultaneously, exactly as weird human behavior would dictate, we would get these waves of guys from "the other sites" swamping the forum with anti-propecia posts. They too - incapable of acknowledging that "not everyone has problems on Propecia". Human beings always seem to either do one extreme, or the other. Moderation, rational thought, and middle ground escapes most people. So those guys would get banned, or dumped into the subforum by the moderators as well.

Naturally we were then accused of censoring, and of course I was making love to the owner of Merck nightly, as (she i hope?) fed me grapes and told me how I was never going to admit that Propecia makes penises fall off. At least that's what everyone decided. Because (see above) ... nobody thinks rationally or moderately. HairLossTalk was of course incahoots with Merck. Of course that is nonsense.

Here's the thing: I am capable of differentiating between "what happens to me" and "what happens to others". I have at least 5 friends who have been on Propecia (one of them for over 10 years now) and have heard nary a complaint from any of them. And believe me, I've asked. Numerous times. Zero problems. I have also run one of the biggest hair loss sites on the internet for 15 years, and I literally don't remember getting an email saying Propecia has ruined anyone's lives. All I do all day is interact with people who visit this site. For 15 years.

But with me? I had severe problems. Major side effects. And like a desperate 25 year old who didn't want to go bald, I ignored those side effects and kept taking it. And I have lived to pay the price.

I have been in contact with the owner of those "other sites" and even offered some solutions which have helped me. There is no doubt in my mind that long term, Propecia resulted in a reduction of a wide range of neurosteroids and hormones. At first it was no big deal. I was a 25 year old with probably a 950 testosterone level. While on it, I had major problems. But I ignored them. And I continued taking it for 3.5 years out of sheer terror of losing my hair. I knew I was damaging myself but I didn't want to go bald.

It has been over 13 years since then. And over the course of 13 years my Testosterone, Estrogen, DHT, Leutenizing Hormone, Follicle Stimulating Hormone, and DHEA have slowly declined. Since doctors are idiots for the most part, as those numbers continued to decline, they ignored my cries for help because i was "still in range". So like an idiot, I listened to my doctors and allowed my Tesosterone (and my very zest for life) to decline. Now I am 40 years old. I have a T level of 269. That is the Testosterone level of a 95 year old man. I am low on DHT, and below range on Estrogen, LH and FSH. I have had severe depression. Major anxiety that I can't control. Weakness and exhaustion. Fatigue and exercise intolerance. Maybe you've noticed this site hasn't been updated in 6 years. Yeah. That's because of this. Motivation to excel, and work, and everything that is "being a man" was gone. And the starting point? Taking Propecia for 3 years.

Fortunately in the last 8 weeks I have found the solution to the problem. It involves Clomid (microdose), DHEA (microdose) and a microdose of Androgel. For me, this has transformed my world. There is no doubt in my mind that for some guys, Propecia does this damage.

So why do I still promote it? Because. I know for a fact that 90% (probably more) of guys don't have ANY ISSUES with it. I would rather recommend people try it and see how they tolerate it, than scare the crap out of them and they keep losing their hair. To me, this is a rational, moderate position to take.

As a side note: I haven't lost a single hair since I was 25. Wanna know why? Because Propecia permanently reduced my DHT levels so low, that I basically stopped losing hair. Blessing in disguise? You bet. But it also means that I've had 15 years of my life with nearly zero libido, inability to engage in fitness, and depression that has been debilitating at times. I kid you not, within 24 hours of beginning Clomid - all of that evaporated into thin air. And it has remained such for 3 months now. I am cured, though I will probably be on some form of "endogenous hormone stimulation" treatments of some kind forever. And hey - i might even start losing my hair again, as my DHT returns to normal levels.

---------------

My request to all of you? Please read the above. I know its long. But take the time. And be respectful of eachother. Guys who hang out on those anti propecia sites? Stop being extremists and acknowledge that most guys don't have a problem from Propecia. I believe you will garner the respect of the guys here who are ON propecia and have no problems. I think we can all agree that a certain percentage of guys do have issues. Unfortunately when you kill someones hormones, you kill their will to live, and introduce a ton of very strange symptoms that can range from chronic fatigue to anxiety disorders to depression to neuromuscular problems, and much more. This doesn't mean the guy who pops up here claiming he took Propecia for 5 minutes and has been on the fetal position for 3 years since, is being a rational person. So I welcome any responses that promote rational thought.

I was really apprehensive to post the new study in the General Forum. But when I received a call from that medical group, we had some extensive discussions on the topic. They have been dealing with guys who have these problems, for quite some time, and they are sincerely interested in helping figure out a treatment plan for those guys. I have over the last several weeks been actively involved with them. Sharing my "cure" and my bloodwork so they can compare and find commonalities. Not surprisingly, my workup looks exactly like these other guys. So that's a step in the right direction. I guess I felt like I wanted to get the word out. I know I risk scaring people away from Propecia, but hopefully those capable of rational moderate thought will remember: Its a rare reaction.

Admin

Thanks for sharing Admin. Same thing happened to me @ 21 I went from 875 down to 250. It's horrible, i'm to scared to go get it checked again.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

I logged in just to call you a jerk, ban me, delete my post, whipe your *** with it...do whatever you like.

Please grant him his wish. Why cant you discuss this without the insults and bad language? You have the right to give your experience with the drug, but so do we. You refuse to deal with reality, but the fact of the matter is that most people that use the drug will benefit from it and will be side free. If the potential sides were hidden from you when you decided to use the drug then I could understand why you are so upset. The sides are not hidden any more and we can all read about them. It is up to the individual to educate themselves and make a decision based on FACTS not on the opinions of bitter guys on the internet.

 

[isishearmyplea]

Congrats Admin, now that you are recovering . I hope you wont mind sharing what sides you faced and how it progressed with time. Thanks and best of luck!!

 

[Fanjeera]

Hi all -

For the last 14 years this forum has intentionally segregated talk of Propecia side effects to a subforum. We did this for one reason: Not all guys have problems with it. And I felt like it would do more harm than good to have a forum filled with scary posts. Thanks to these propecia lawsuit ads everywhere, I now have to deal with family members and friends (pretty much all of them) desperately losing hair, but refusing to even TRY propecia.

The statement: "Try it and see if you have any problems with it" escapes them, because of all the fear mongering. I know how human beings think, and react to things. I knew if this forum was full of posts from guys who's penises fell off after 2 hours on Propecia, literally hundreds of thousands of site browsers would never get on the most effective treatment for hair loss. And that does a disservice to everyone.

So we segregated the posts into a subforum.

Simultaneously, exactly as weird human behavior would dictate, we would get these waves of guys from "the other sites" swamping the forum with anti-propecia posts. They too - incapable of acknowledging that "not everyone has problems on Propecia". Human beings always seem to either do one extreme, or the other. Moderation, rational thought, and middle ground escapes most people. So those guys would get banned, or dumped into the subforum by the moderators as well.

Naturally we were then accused of censoring, and of course I was making love to the owner of Merck nightly, as (she i hope?) fed me grapes and told me how I was never going to admit that Propecia makes penises fall off. At least that's what everyone decided. Because (see above) ... nobody thinks rationally or moderately. HairLossTalk was of course incahoots with Merck. Of course that is nonsense.

Here's the thing: I am capable of differentiating between "what happens to me" and "what happens to others". I have at least 5 friends who have been on Propecia (one of them for over 10 years now) and have heard nary a complaint from any of them. And believe me, I've asked. Numerous times. Zero problems. I have also run one of the biggest hair loss sites on the internet for 15 years, and I literally don't remember getting an email saying Propecia has ruined anyone's lives. All I do all day is interact with people who visit this site. For 15 years.

But with me? I had severe problems. Major side effects. And like a desperate 25 year old who didn't want to go bald, I ignored those side effects and kept taking it. And I have lived to pay the price.

I have been in contact with the owner of those "other sites" and even offered some solutions which have helped me. There is no doubt in my mind that long term, Propecia resulted in a reduction of a wide range of neurosteroids and hormones. At first it was no big deal. I was a 25 year old with probably a 950 testosterone level. While on it, I had major problems. But I ignored them. And I continued taking it for 3.5 years out of sheer terror of losing my hair. I knew I was damaging myself but I didn't want to go bald.

It has been over 13 years since then. And over the course of 13 years my Testosterone, Estrogen, DHT, Leutenizing Hormone, Follicle Stimulating Hormone, and DHEA have slowly declined. Since doctors are idiots for the most part, as those numbers continued to decline, they ignored my cries for help because i was "still in range". So like an idiot, I listened to my doctors and allowed my Tesosterone (and my very zest for life) to decline. Now I am 40 years old. I have a T level of 269. That is the Testosterone level of a 95 year old man. I am low on DHT, and below range on Estrogen, LH and FSH. I have had severe depression. Major anxiety that I can't control. Weakness and exhaustion. Fatigue and exercise intolerance. Maybe you've noticed this site hasn't been updated in 6 years. Yeah. That's because of this. Motivation to excel, and work, and everything that is "being a man" was gone. And the starting point? Taking Propecia for 3 years.

Fortunately in the last 8 weeks I have found the solution to the problem. It involves Clomid (microdose), DHEA (microdose) and a microdose of Androgel. For me, this has transformed my world. There is no doubt in my mind that for some guys, Propecia does this damage.

So why do I still promote it? Because. I know for a fact that 90% (probably more) of guys don't have ANY ISSUES with it. I would rather recommend people try it and see how they tolerate it, than scare the crap out of them and they keep losing their hair. To me, this is a rational, moderate position to take.

As a side note: I haven't lost a single hair since I was 25. Wanna know why? Because Propecia permanently reduced my DHT levels so low, that I basically stopped losing hair. Blessing in disguise? You bet. But it also means that I've had 15 years of my life with nearly zero libido, inability to engage in fitness, and depression that has been debilitating at times. I kid you not, within 24 hours of beginning Clomid - all of that evaporated into thin air. And it has remained such for 3 months now. I am cured, though I will probably be on some form of "endogenous hormone stimulation" treatments of some kind forever. And hey - i might even start losing my hair again, as my DHT returns to normal levels.

---------------

My request to all of you? Please read the above. I know its long. But take the time. And be respectful of eachother. Guys who hang out on those anti propecia sites? Stop being extremists and acknowledge that most guys don't have a problem from Propecia. I believe you will garner the respect of the guys here who are ON propecia and have no problems. I think we can all agree that a certain percentage of guys do have issues. Unfortunately when you kill someones hormones, you kill their will to live, and introduce a ton of very strange symptoms that can range from chronic fatigue to anxiety disorders to depression to neuromuscular problems, and much more. This doesn't mean the guy who pops up here claiming he took Propecia for 5 minutes and has been on the fetal position for 3 years since, is being a rational person. So I welcome any responses that promote rational thought.

I was really apprehensive to post the new study in the General Forum. But when I received a call from that medical group, we had some extensive discussions on the topic. They have been dealing with guys who have these problems, for quite some time, and they are sincerely interested in helping figure out a treatment plan for those guys. I have over the last several weeks been actively involved with them. Sharing my "cure" and my bloodwork so they can compare and find commonalities. Not surprisingly, my workup looks exactly like these other guys. So that's a step in the right direction. I guess I felt like I wanted to get the word out. I know I risk scaring people away from Propecia, but hopefully those capable of rational moderate thought will remember: Its a rare reaction.

Admin

So all PFS is just hypogonadism? You can't really blame finasteride for that: it definitely doesn't cause hypogonadism. If all you need is testosterone replacement, then you're not a case.

PFS is such a broad term. Right now, you can put almost any symptom under it. The side effects can definitely cause psychological stress (lowered libido, sleeping disorders), so there you have it. Ultrastructural changes in the penis due to androgen deprivation are reversible, but it takes time, so that's one more reason for erectile dysfunction. Also the prostate needs to grow back, so 3 months (the time after which the side effect is considered persistent) may not be enough for the ejaculations to normalise.
Up to this day they have failed to prove the anatomical, histological basis for the disease. They thankfully disproved the theory that it can cause actual numbness of genitals (the penile nerves of finasteride quitters were all correct comparing to normal men), which is also just psychological then. So actually they have worked against proving the condition.
People in propeciahelp.com are complaining of the most common men health issues that also occur most frequently in normal populations (depression, erectile dysfunction, prostatitis, sleep disorders, slow thinking etc). It's just a place for ex-finasteride users only to solve their individual illnesses.
There are like 60 actual cases or persistent sexual dysfunction. Sexual dysfunction is also divided to three: ejaculatory, arousal, erectile. So even this small amount of men don't have very much in common.

I think it's just this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koro_(medicine)

 

[Cue Bald]

Have any of you PFS dudes ever had an EEG? If it causes neurological sides do you think anything will show up on an EEG?

 

[Fanjeera]

Have any of you PFS dudes ever had an EEG? If it causes neurological sides do you think anything will show up on an EEG?

Nothing will show up there.

They didn't do enough studies on what happens to the body upon quitting the drug after long term use. I think all of us that have quit have low levels of testosterone now. I never got mine checked but the symptoms are there.

I think they have shown several times that the hormone values come back to normal.

 

[JimmyJones]

I agree with the admin. I suffered facial fat loss but I still encourage people to try the drug because I accept that the majority of people will not suffer side effects. I think there needs to be compromises on both sides. The people at propeciahelp need to accept that the majority of people will not suffer side effects but the people who love propecia should be more sensitive that some have experienced major side effects which are not necessarily listed on the fact sheet. Some of the people's symptoms may be psychosomatic but I know that symptoms, including my own are real as others have reported the exact same thing and posted pictures which are upsetting to say the least.