Follica (first Time Ever Picture) - Exciting

[GrowPro]

Unfortunately that is the same flawed logic people used for Brotzu and many other failed treatments: "They're saving all their best photos for the last minute so competitors don't steal their idea!!!"

The reality with Follica is the same with all other treatments: if it worked well, we would have known years ago. That's just the truth. If they had good regrowth pictures, we would have already seen them. "They're locked behind trial data, any leak is punished with death!!!! They're professionals! They're scientists!" It's all a big desperate joke. Follica has been trying for over 10 years. They would've had to make the decision to move forward with a product years ago. We would have seen a photo if any good ones existed, but they don't. They don't exist in this trial data coming out in 2020. They won't exist in 2025.

It's not even good to peddle. I'm sure hair doctors would rather try to sell you a laser helmet because they probably get a much bigger kickback. Your average dermatologist isn't going to order a device that wounds your scalp to keep in their office. If by miracle it even does work well, it's going to be years and years after release date for it to penetrate the market.

Not really “flawed logic”...I’m just giving Follica the benefit of the doubt...unless YOU’RE an insider in the company and know all the details I could easily say YOU’RE assumptions above is just as flawed...comparing two different companies and just assuming they will function the same is a bit ridiculous. Yes, I have my criticism BUT I’m willing to give them the benefit to prove themselves.

I’ve posted my microneedling + minoxidil photos as proof the concept works for me, you can go on the other thread and find them or search my posts.

 

[GrowPro]

you could be right but we have seen diy people make dramatic recovery's using the premise that they are working with at follica better in fact than their photo they released .Its not a case of of if it works its getting it to work in every one. I also have sneaking suspicion that they solved it years ago and have spent this whole time trying to reinvent the wheel in a patented way to make money from it to stop people with generic pens and generic min doing it them self's

I have the same suspicion.

 

[HairOnFire]

This thread is about the data actual scientists released and they seem to be alluding to a depth of no more than 0,15mm with tight clustering of wounds unless of course they released their promising but failed data and went completely the other way to confuse us on depth.

Hair follicles originate in the epidermis, so it makes sense to target that area if you are trying to create new ones. To me, this is the big takeaway from Follica's recent presentations. I never really thought about needling depth, and just assumed I would use the same depth everyone else is using. Now, I will use a shallow depth (this month, I plan on needling for the first time), with as many needles as I can. Maybe around 0.15mm in depth, or just slightly deeper.

Another image of how hair follicles form:

 

[tomJ]

you could be right but we have seen diy people make dramatic recovery's using the premise that they are working with at follica better in fact than their photo they released .Its not a case of of if it works its getting it to work in every one. I also have sneaking suspicion that they solved it years ago and have spent this whole time trying to reinvent the wheel in a patented way to make money from it to stop people with generic pens and generic min doing it them self's

Agree

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Dude, there is no dermaroller with 0.15mm depth.
WTF
Americans, LEARN the f-ing metrics!

Nano Needling:

• Needle depth 0.15-0.25 mm

Microneedling:

• Needle depth from 0.25 to 2.5mm

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Hair follicles originate in the epidermis, so it makes sense to target that area if you are trying to create new ones. To me, this is the big takeaway from Follica's recent presentations. I never really thought about needling depth, and just assumed I would use the same depth everyone else is using. Now, I will use a shallow depth (this month, I plan on needling for the first time), with as many needles as I can. Maybe around 0.15mm in depth, or just slightly deeper.

Another image of how hair follicles form:

View attachment 133481

I'm about 6 weeks into using a 1.5mm roller only using the weight of the roller to just push the very tips into the scalp for daily abortion of topicals Minoxidil 5% Azelaic acid 1.5%w/ Tretinoin 0.010% finasteride 0.1%

 

[NewUser]

Sure, but epidermis is anywhere from 0.5 to 2-3mm thick.
Everybody's skin thickness is different.
If everybody needles at a 1mm depth, chances are not all people will get to the dermis.
Moreover, deeper damage is better. And by deeper, I mean damage to the reticular dermis/corium.
Its nice that you know where epithelial stem cells are located: the bulge, not the bulb. You've done your h/w and I do compliment you on that.

I wouldn't go any deeper than 0.5 mm. I think Follica's report says 300 to 400 microns and less. These guys are right, it's about density of the wounds and "quorum sensing." Any deeper and you're likely doing damage to blood vessels and nerves unnecessarily.

 

[HAIRGOAT]

I need that 0.15-0.25mm dermaroller/dermapen.
Bwahahahahahahaha

Ebay has them for the dr pen for a bout 5 bucks or so

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Even tho this is a hunch from incomplete data .my interpretation of this thread so far is a total removal with a peel of epidermis doesn't instigate a response, so a shallow disruption that causes restoration response of the tissue but not to much damage as to cause replacement is needed. This would be the window for the unknown compound/minoxidil to be added to give neoGenesis a nudge .
Temped to try this with a deminator 12 needle set to highspeed 0.25 doing 10+ 20+ ? passes to try and tantamount tightly spaced needle damage but i have no idea still what would constitute to much or too little as this variable is unknown and probably varies between tool used, pattern and genetics.

 

[pegasus2]

LOL
American dumbness on its full display.
A) I'm Greek, not Russian.
B) I said your skin is 1cm thick or more. Skin consists of epidermis, dermis/corium and hypodermis/subcutis.
Epidermis is 0.5-1.5mm thick, dermis is 2-4mm thick and hypodermis more than 5mm thick, in most areas.
Next time you peel your skin after a post superficial burn blister, measure its thickness, pathetic, illiterate American. Oh, and use the metric system, not the idiotic imperial one on your ruler.
You'll find out, dumbtard, its about 1mm thick. Oh, and that'd be the epidermis. If deeper, you would bleed.
Yes, I am a dermatologist.
Not an ignorant, pathetic American who thinks he knows it all just by googling pathetic, inaccurate articles written by Americans who have no f-ing idea about the metric system.

Even worse. That explains it. Greek average IQ is what, about 88? Mabye if you took some English lessons you'd learn the difference between epidermis and skin. lol at skin being 1cm thick.

 

[the smoking baby]

Does anyone really believe that 0.1 mm wounding is going to trigger regrowth? I can scratch my head at that depth daily and I can guarantee that I won't trigger regrowth. This new take on wounding makes no sense.

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Yup agreed, the more frequent low depth needling is the way to go imo.

The daily schedule light needling was mass tried and failed and should of highlighted some more top responders as its the easiest one to do .
Im going to endeavor to persevere for a total 4 month period very light touch 1.5MM somebody method then evaluate ,
then if needed i will pepper my scalp with a light 0.25 derminator or equivalent machine if found of 0.15mm till its glowing raw on a monthly schedule.

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Does anyone really believe that 0.1 mm wounding is going to trigger regrowth? I can scratch my head at that depth daily and I can guarantee that I won't trigger regrowth. This new take on wounding makes no sense.

Yea all logic tells me its not enough and should be depth and this theory is a joke put out by the company for a laugh. but i can only conclude thinking logically that shallow means you can do more damage with out scaring and trick the body into a response you can only get with a scar level injury.

 

[Armando Jose]

What?

I'm a dermatologist.
You?

Wellcome

and I’ve already stated how they angled the subject in both photos that had me shaking my head.

+1

Unfortunately that is the same flawed logic people used for Brotzu

+1

 

[That Guy]

A) I'm Greek, not Russian.View attachment 133493

Why are all the most-unhinged forum members Greeks, homosexuals, or Greek homosexuals?

It's a thing

Yup agreed, the more frequent low depth needling is the way to go imo.

Seems that way

 

[pinotq]

For those interested in understanding the science, these studies may be helpful in giving a better understanding of what happens during micro needling: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3921236/ & https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29199946 Interpret however you like but here are some of the highlights.....lending credibility to shallow depth at high concentration (quorum sensing):

• Skin cuts to a depth of 0.5–0.6 mm close by electrical cell stimulation without any trace of scar tissue. Deeper skin cuts close by “skin repair” that ultimately results in scar formation.
  
• The theoretical method of action of microneedling may include trans-epithelial potentials (TEP's) suggesting the response is based on electrical signaling and the mobilization of local stem cell pools to promote tissue regeneration and repair
  
• Only cells in the vicinity of the injury (about 2–3 mm) are activated. Once the TEP is restored the activated cells resume their resting potential. To elicit a desired response from microneedling about two hundred needle pricks are created per cm2 of skin.

 

[pinotq]

Regarding the earlier note that Follica had changed their website regarding the statement relating to "Device & Existing Drugs", using the wayback machine:

• Sept 25, 2019 - "Device & Existing Drugs"
• Currently - "Device plus Drug" & "CAUTION: Investigational device and new drug."

 

[Rho Gain]

LOL
American dumbness on its full display.

"Dumbness" means the state of being mute, not stupidity. "Dumbness" as used in the context you used it is not a word.

Why are all the most-unhinged forum members Greeks, homosexuals, or Greek homosexuals?

It's a thing



Seems that way

Well, they did invent - to a degree - the concept, as well as pedophilia (see: "catamite").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catamite#/media/File:Warren_Cup_BM_GR_1999.4-26.1_n2.jpg

Yuck.

 

[dm900]

“On its full display” lol

 

[alscarmuzza]

What?
What kind of evidence and what for?
I've reasoned most statements I have made thus far.
I'm a dermatologist.
You?

You're a medical doctor? Where is your practice located? Maybe some forum users can visit your practice for prescriptions and consultation