Follica - Good News!

[michael barry]

Harold,

The lidocaine tube I have has instructions to pretty much not use it more than seven days without a doctors approval, etc.


I have no idea if its slowing effect on wound healing would interfere with de noveau hair growth or not. I do know that its synthetic and it inhibits egf...................but thats it.


TAGHOL found that piece of info, and I thought it might be a good idea to post it here and see if anyone had an insight on whether lidocaine might work/not work and why....




Genistein supposedly is a EGF inhibitor and is in a patent for that activity, which I thought was interesting.

 

[harold]

I am not convinced about DMSO and wnt either but you have to use something as a carrier and DMSO is super effective in that regard and it may have a positive effect in itself, so the choice is quite easy.

Well the problem with DMSO is almost always not that it isnt effective enough as a carrier but thats its somehwhat too effective. But thats for the individual to decide if it worries them.
hh

 

[Moomin]

I'm not worried about using DMSO, I don't see how it being too effective a carrier is a problem so long as its handled in the correct way.

The chemical itself appears to be perfectly safe and has been used medically and commercially for over 30 years.

 

[Orin]

Thanks for the links, moomin. I'm from Scandinavia, so if they ship to you, they should be able to ship to me

As far as results and such (to whoever asked) - these things take time. Actually just following all this talk and first wave of experiments, you sorta get the sense of why research in itself is "so slow". It has been 4 months since we discovered this, and we're only in the real first round of small experiments, perhaps the second, sorta tweaking what we learned from the first one.

Considering we don't operate under any restriction, you should be able to appreciate how timely Follica seem to be. A lot of people give them flack for supposedly being slow, and late on starting trials, but they only formed this year. And now they're starting pre-trials. With a lot of red tape hanging over them, you'd have to give them credit where it's due. They're pretty much right on time as far as I'm concerned.

I guess everyone has to make up their own mind as to how successful they'll be, but I find myself in a surprisingly tranquil (and odd) feeling of being convinced that it's going to work. It could be the animal tests, or the stray and promising photos of people in the wild using the compounds Follica is using, or just my own - very simple - little experiments that all in all, on their own, showed enough promise to the point that I think it, and it alone, would be a viable method of combating hair-loss.

So even if Follica bombs, which seems unlikely, I've still gotten something pretty significant out of it. I guess the evidence just seem to support Follica's theory to a much wider degree, than they are undermining it.

I also don't think we've ever had this kind of transparency with any other promising hair-growth technology, ON TOP of this probably (and perhaps because of that transparency) being the most promising to date.

 

[chancer]

GARLIC & CLOVES???? he says in a peter key - lancashire fashion

Our Beloved thread as been quiet for over a week now, so my thirst for knowledge had me trawling other forums... i come across this info below, which to my knowledge hasn’t been suggested or theorised by our lot on this board yet, im sure Orin & First may find it advantageous as they like to keep things au-natural... Oh Goata007 - i noticed you had input on this thread in the other forum i collated it from... why didn’t you spread it to us sooner?....




Thats the reason why I'm really interested in Follica now. That herbal doctor probably doesn't even know what an anti-androgen or WNT signalling is but both of these ingredients do just that i.e. garlic = WNT signalling, clove = anti-androgen. Since he mentions it heating in olive/mustard oil for a while I'm quite sure that would get them thorougly mixed up in the oil. Also he mentioned goood amount of garlic & cloves so the end result should be oil concentrated with garlic and cloves

In case anyone is wondering what the treatment is:

i) Garlic = 250 grams
ii) Cloves = 50 grams
iii) Oil = 0.5 litre

And heat them for a about 30 minutes - DON't overheat the oil though!


I'm with you on abrasion, wounding skin alone supposedly creates new hair follicles (Follica patent also mentions that). So combining both should lead to better & quicker results.

this is the link from where i found it....
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...ollica+method&hair loss=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

 

[Orin]

I don't see the advantage over just using lithium, which is what is in garlic. My only reason for going the natural route, is because it's cheaper, and if as effective (doubtful) as synthetics, could be very financially beneficial and democratic in the sense that everyone can do it.

Herbal witchdoctors are something to take inspiration from, to extract what is chemically being done through their naive mixing of "things that are good for you"; not something to aspire to.

Thanks for the info though. The forum has been quiet for some time. Nice to see some rings on the water now and again. It's quite possible people are in various stages of a second go at this.

 

[NicholasLim]

So have anyone tried the "follica" method and regrew some hair on the temple?

And how long more do we need to wait for follica to be availablke

 

[goata007]

So have anyone tried the "follica" method and regrew some hair on the temple?

And how long more do we need to wait for follica to be availablke

Not Yet

at least 1-2 years

GARLIC & CLOVES???? he says in a peter key - lancashire fashion

Our Beloved thread as been quiet for over a week now, so my thirst for knowledge had me trawling other forums... i come across this info below, which to my knowledge hasn’t been suggested or theorised by our lot on this board yet, im sure Orin & First may find it advantageous as they like to keep things au-natural... Oh Goata007 - i noticed you had input on this thread in the other forum i collated it from... why didn’t you spread it to us sooner?....

I did it for a while but then I stopped it myself, I broke out on my scalp. However, I'm planning on starting it again in few days alongwith Neutrogena Rejuvenator. It's a handheld, mild skin abrasion device that works by vibrating the scrubbing pad. The people who have been using it on their faces say that it also increase blood flow to the face & helps normalize collagen under the skin = what we need!

So thats my plan for now, abrasion with rejuvenator followed by Garlic & clove for 2-3 hours. I'll also try to add the essential oil mix (tea tree oil + lavender + cedarwood in sweet almond oil) to my regime. I have everything except for that neutrogena rejuvenator which I'll get tomorrow. If I regrow any hair, I'll let you guys know!

 

[Orin]

I regrew hair on my temple just fine. On both actually. They're most likely regrown hair, as opposed to completly new follicles though.

On a separate note - has there been any talks about using curcumin extract? Seems it's what Iressa (gefitinib) was inspired by. It's possible it also inhibits WnT (don't know if it does), but unless they've amped up the EGFR-inhibition aspect, it's as close to a natural analog to gefitinib we can get. Cheap too.

http://www.goodhealth.nu/News_Articles/ ... cer-US.htm

 

[jakeb]

It does look like curcumin suppresses wnt signalling :/ Damn. This is all very tricky.

 

[Orin]

There are still some more to research (or try). Someone on another forum is using Tannic Acid, which - according to him - does not inhibit WnT, but does inhibit EGFR. To what extent I do not know. Apparently it stains skin though, so that's unfortunate, allthough probably not permanently.

If push came to shove, we could always default back to generic Gefitinib, so it's not like we're disadvantaged in that regard. There is always the possibility though, that curcumin (which apparently is a very effective EGFR-inhibitor) inhibits WnT to a degree that the body can compensate for, ie, it's a weak WnT-inhibitor. I have no idea what the correlation between those two inhibiting factors are.

Someone is bound to try it though, as they are with lidocaine.

 

[jakeb]

I wonder (thought I sure as heck don't feel like finding out the hard way) if the Gefinitib side effects of lung scarring had anything to do with the fact that the people taking it had lung cancer at the time. So, was the scarring a result of the Gefinitib acting on the cancer, or was it something that could happen to any old person who took it?

Obviously, I don't know the answer to this, but I have to think if Follica is seriously considering using it, they know something we don't. You would *think* that they wouldn't even consider using a drug that seriously had a 1 in 100 chance of damaging your vital organs.

 

[Orin]

The scarring is increased for people who smoke, or have lung-problems due to other disease. The risk is also increased if you've undergone chemo or other treatments. So it's most likely directly related to microscopic damage on the lungs. It makes sense though; gefitinib - among other things I guess - hinder the formation of skin (and cancer-cells). It most likely interfers with the small scars that are probably already on your lungs if you've been prescribed gefitinib.

The popular theory is that Follica is taking their time to make a topical application of this, which makes sense. No reason to let this medicine circulate and affect your entire body, when its' side effects are only desired on the scalp. The used topical administration in the patent, and as far as I know it worked as well.

So it's probably just a question if you can get gefitinib deep enough (dermis perhaps), but not deep enough so it gets spread into the blood-stream. It's something to tackle when and if home-users get good results with taking gefitinib orally.

 

[chancer]

i smoked between the age of 16-21 (im 31 now) and although im pretty damn sure my lungs have fully recovered from back in my teens, i dont fancy playing russian roulette with gefitinib.

I'm still on the fence about lithium tbh, after reading that it can perminantly effect your theiroid gland taken orrally.... Orin - are you using lithium in a topical format?

 

[Orin]

Yes. For various reasons, I think a topical approach is the best regardless what you're actually using. It seems a little backwards taking them orally, where it not only goes around your entire system, but also might have its' effect negated when it's broken down.

On the other hand, some chemicals, like Arava, seem to need to be taken orally for the EGFR-inhibition effect to take place. I'm not holding my breathe for Arava though.

Nobody really knows if lithium is something that is needed - it's just something that seem to be important. Your body produces it when the skin is damaged, and it's possible that's enough. You could try to pluck some hair from your temple, abrade it a day or two afterwards, and then just let it heal back on its own without anything added. I guess caffeine might be an idea.

It's possible that could still produce some results, though it seems all these at-home approaches need every help it can get. My experience with plucking, abrading and adding lithium + caffeine is just barely straddling the line of being something worth actually doing full-scale; and that's despite it being the best methods in terms of regrowth that I have experienced (lasers, dutasteride and needling being the inferior rest).

 

[Matt27]

I was reading up on the Follica patent some more, particularly the Epidermal disruption section, and it seems they will likely be conducting some of the following tests for states of reepithelialization (during the dermabrasion testing up at Harvard as earlier announced) across a number of different people/ethnicities/skin types etc. etc.:

From the patent:

State of Reepithelialization: Reepithelialization can be detected through inspection of the new epidermis where covering of the wound area by keratinocytes indicates reepithelialization. The presence of a keratinocytes can be seen with the naked eye as a white, glossy, shiny surface that gradually covers the open wound. Using a confocal microscope, keratinocytes can be visualized as a sheet of "cobblestone" looking cells. Reepithelialization can also be detected through the measurement of trans epidermal water loss (TEWL). TEWL decreases when the epithelial barrier is restored. Confocal scanning laser microscopy and/or optical coherence tomography can also be used to detect the state of reepithelialization, where the presence of keratinocytes indicates reepithelialization.

The presence of a stratum corneum can be determined though visual inspection, direct observation of papillary blood vessels using a capillary microscope, or through a colorimetric redox reaction of a compound that reacts in the presence of live cells. For example, 0.01% nitrazine yellow applied to the skin will remain yellow if a stratum corneum is present, and will turn greenish brown if not. In another example 0.01% bromcresol purple applied to the skin will stay yellow if the stratum corneum is present and will turn purple if the stratum corneum is not present.

So here we have some great tests or hints I guess I should say at our disposal for testing for the presence of the SC and the state of reepithelialization, which as we all know are two very key ingredients and requirements of the first stage of the process.

Just thought I would pass this along to anyone who missed it who's doing their home abrasions in case they wanted to actually test whether or not they're achieving the desired states. After all, if you screw up at this stage there’s probably not much you can expect in terms of hair neogenesis during the later stages regardless of what topicals you apply or drugs you take. Now it really starts to make sense why Follica is testing this part of the procedure first. I’m sure they want to be 99% certain the skin is in the exact state desired before they go applying any topicals.

 

[chancer]

Excelent, well done matt....

so there is a proceedure to determin if we have abreded to the desired level, its called the colorimetric redox reaction

does anyone know if we can replicate this test for ourselves?

 

[harold]

Curcumin is problematic. Quoting myself:
"Curcumin incidentally has an insane degradatiuon time with something like 90% being degraded in solution within about 30 minutes IIRC. And thats if you can get it in solution - its pretty much only soluble in oil. So yeah there are practical problems with a lot of this stuff that would more or less rule them out as a prepackaged mass produced topical."
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=45164&p=429251&hilit=curcumin#p429251

It does look like curcumin suppresses wnt signalling :/ Damn. This is all very tricky.

Where did you get this from?
hh

 

[patagonia]

.

 

[jakeb]

It does look like curcumin suppresses wnt signalling :/ Damn. This is all very tricky.

Where did you get this from?
hh

"Our results suggest that curcumin treatment impairs both Wnt signaling and cell-cell adhesion pathways, resulting in G(2)/M phase arrest and apoptosis in HCT-116 cells."

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:185199