Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

[HAIRGOAT]

You may want to wait 24 hours after rolling before applying minoxidil.

Never had any effect before even when daily rolling today was my most intense needling ever but still baffled by lack of pain.
I used the cheap Kirkland min instead of the min max stuff to be cautious.
its feels like i maybe missing a window not to slap it on right away i think the protocol is playing it safe as they don't want people fainting all over the place being stretchered out past the next in line.
People faint from one needle i have half million holes in my head im entitled a wobble lol will be skipping leg day on needle day that's for dam sure in future.

 

[Xenophon]

You may want to wait 24 hours after rolling before applying minoxidil.

If people need to use minoxidil on wounded skin they sort of assume it doesn't normally penetrate. Doing this once a week for 'increased penetration' is not gonna make a difference. It's just a psychological placebo effect of masochism.

I just put hyaluronic acid on my face and scalp afterwards. And I've learned not to add amino pills to the HA which contain that tiny bit of rice flour or other anti-caking agents, because that sh*t causes my skin to sting even a couple days after wounding. Weirdly, magnesium chloride in a very high concentration in a spray bottle doesn't cause any stinging and this is a kind of salt. Go figure.

 

[HAIRGOAT]

If people need to use minoxidil on wounded skin they sort of assume it doesn't normally penetrate. Doing this once a week for 'increased penetration' is not gonna make a difference. It's just a psychological placebo effect of masochism.

I just put hyaluronic acid on my face and scalp afterwards. And I've learned not to add amino pills to the HA which contain that tiny bit of rice flour or other anti-caking agents, because that sh*t causes my skin to sting even a couple days after wounding. Weirdly, magnesium chloride in a very high concentration in a spray bottle doesn't cause any stinging and this is a kind of salt. Go figure.

I don't do it for increased penetration i do it because of this paragraph

"Following skin disruption, cells that migrate to help healing are forced to make a decision: Should I make epidermis, or should I make a hair? There is a window of opportunity in which we can potentially push them to choose the latter, and we believe there are multiple biological pathways to target to enhance this outcome. This regenerative effect is called hair follicle neogenesis."

and i dont have any other compound to apply i just want there to be any thing to help in abundance straight away . Id smear peanut butter on my head and hop on one foot singing I'm an Oscar-Meyer Wiener if it gave me just a 1% boost.

 

[John Difool]

The Follica frequency of every other week could just be to space out the clinic visits to a more flexible schedule. I didn't read anything about home treatment.

 

[Ivo Shandor]

Did my 3rd session I needled with the d2 for 33 minutes and it barely hurt at all i don't fell anywhere near as bad after either as last two times i had washed my hair with hot water prior and had damp hair where as normally needle dry/iodine plus used brand new needle head .
so needles were going in me for at least 30mins non stop so i should have at least 540000 wounds yet i fell like im slacking

What depth needle? You're going to do this fortnightly?

 

[HAIRGOAT]

What depth needle? You're going to do this fortnightly?

This whole thread is about 0.8mm on smooth skin 1mm on hairy scalp tho im doing 1mm all over because my pen does not do 0.8mm only 0.75mm and i personally would rather be just over pressing lighter than just under pressing harder

 

[alebaba]

Are we suppose to do micro-needle our entire scalp even the non balding area?

 

[ComeBackTemples]

This whole thread is about 0.8mm on smooth skin 1mm on hairy scalp tho im doing 1mm all over because my pen does not do 0.8mm only 0.75mm and i personally would rather be just over pressing lighter than just under pressing harder

M second treatment awaits me tomorrow and I am torn which depth to use. Last time i tried with 0.75mm and pressed hard. As you could see in my pics, i really butchered my scalp

Maybe this time with 1mm and very Light pressure!

 

[HAIRGOAT]

M second treatment awaits me tomorrow and I am torn which depth to use. Last time i tried with 0.75mm and pressed hard. As you could see in my pics, i really butchered my scalp

Maybe this time with 1mm and very Light pressure!

I don't really know but when i press hard my lax skin domes and funnels up the cartridge slightly so center of the skin will be hit deeper and probably gets angled wounds on the edges. I could be wrong but its what i see on me. Wow just looked at what 0.75 did you i dont look like that after 30mins,1mm, d2, fast speed non stop lol

 

[Ivo Shandor]

This whole thread is about 0.8mm on smooth skin 1mm on hairy scalp tho im doing 1mm all over because my pen does not do 0.8mm only 0.75mm and i personally would rather be just over pressing lighter than just under pressing harder

Thanks, I'm reading so many threads on here I get confused as to which depth and frequency to use. My D2 hasn't arrived yet.

 

[sktboiboi]

Since @Xander94 opened his Follica dermabrasion device patent thread, I did some digging into other patents by Follica. And, guess what: Another one has been filed: Methods for promoting hair growth. It is much more recent than the one found by Xander and it is about microneedling. Thus, as this looks much more like "the real deal", I decided to dedicate a separate thread for it.

I actually read the whole patent. Here is the short version of Follica's preferred protocol (they have different protocol versions):

• The primary target is to produce 1600 thin needle wounds per cm² every two weeks (their preferred parameter configuration is: using a 12 needle head (2 rows with 6 needles) with a width of 0.9 cm at a movement speed of 2 cm per second and an osicllation speed of 120 Hz)
• Needling device: electric dermaneedling device. They specifically state that dermarollers and dermabrasion devices are less effective. About dermarollers they write that tearing and cut-like wounds are ineffective for neogenesis and that one has to aim for real, "pointy" needle wounds without any tearing or cutting.
  
• Needle target depth: 0.8 mm. For long hair, this can be increased to 1.0 mm, but definitely not more than that. The wound should extend 0.8 mm into the skin but not deeper, 1.0 mm is only to compensate for longer hair.
• Needling frequency: Once every two weeks produces the best results, followed by once a week, followed by once every 4 weeks
• Needling head: 12 needles in an array of 2 x 6 at a width of 0.9 cm for the needle rows. Their specific design is described in Figure 105 of this patent of theirs
  
• Topical, 1st version: minoxidil 5% is the likely first version of the topical (maybe also finasteride or saw palmetto included, but about this I'm not sure)
  
• Topical, 2nd version: The second version of the topical is minoxidil plus one or a combination of the following three: finasteride, valproic acid, latanoprost
  
• Topical application frequency: Twice daily, preferrably once every 12 hours
  
• Areas to needle: Not only affected areas should be needled, but also at least 2 cm into non-bald/non-balding areas. Reason for that is probably quorum sensing.
• Needling device movement over the scalp: Each area should be covered at least once and at most twice, depending on the protocol variant. Depends on frequency and a few other things - won't go into detail here now, the details can be found in the patent. Short version: In the preferred protocol, each treatment area is covered once in horizontal and once in vertical movement direction over the scalp, making for a total of exactly two passes. Passes should be performed without any overlaps and without any gaps. They use the term "like a lawn mower" several times to describe how the scalp should be covered.
  
• Needling movement speed: 2 cm per second. They state that the translational movement speed is important to achieve the target needle hole density of 1600 per cm².
  
• Needling head oscillation frequency: 120 Hz
• Needling pressure: Only slight pressure such that the needles go all the way (0.8 mm) in, but not more. "Gliding" should be achieved.

Now the thing is that the needle heads for the dermapen devices we have are not arranged in 2 rows of 6 needles each. I'm also not sure of the oscillation frequency of the pens we have. We should do some calculations how we can best get to the primary target of 1600 wounds per cm² once every two weeks.

For those who want to read the patent, a hint on how to read patents: "In one embodiment" refers to specific and most effective product designs they plan on releasing, "in some embodiments" refers to other, less effective versions which they want to protect as well but do not necessarily plan on implementing.

As you can see, the protocol is not trivial to replicate (because of parameters, needle heads, but also for covering each area only twice without any gaps or overlaps, especially areas we can't see like the vertex), but this seems what they aim for. Let's see if we can somehow achieve the same.

what is your opinion of using a 24 needle catridge via a single pass protocol for this? would it be equivalent of following the protocol's 12-needle double pass method? im considering even the 36 needle or 42 needle catridges, but would like to hear opinions

 

[HAIRGOAT]

what is your opinion of using a 24 needle catridge via a single pass protocol for this? would it be equivalent of following the protocol's 12-needle double pass method? im considering even the 36 needle or 42 needle catridges, but would like to hear opinions

I have thought about this snow shoe principle may make pen struggle with depth by spreading it power between needles maybe not a concern at 0.8 to 1 mm tho and less passes may leave areas missed entirely .

 

[sktboiboi]

I have thought about this snow shoe principle may make pen struggle with depth by spreading it power between needles maybe not a concern at 0.8 to 1 mm tho and less passes may leave areas missed entirely .

nvm, i jsut boguht the wireless M7 and 3 x 24needles catridges and 3 x 42 needles catridges as a safeguard.


hope it's not too paniful.

 

[sktboiboi]

nvm, i jsut boguht the wireless M7 and 3 x 24needles catridges and 3 x 42 needles catridges as a safeguard.


hope it's not too paniful.

Plan is to do only 1 single pass per circular area of the M7 at 0.8mm once every fortnight.

Then splash on some topicals at once/day. I'm basing the contents of the topical on https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/312...air-miniaturization-in-androgenetic-alopecia/


I've got my topical aready, but the M7's not here yet n will take some time cos I just ordered it today. However, I have a manual roller that I have decided to make do with for the time being n shall thus- begin tonight

 

[sktboiboi]

Went to the gym because i felt fine no scalp pain but my hearing went muffled felt faint went pale been, bathing in min /magic potions for over a decade first time i had a side if it was one could just be that im a 300lbs.
still weirded out by how pain free i am

U r gonna get tinnitus. That's just the beginning.

U said muffled hearing? Ya I rem having that side. First it wad as if I suddenly went deaf for no reason, then a few secs later, a ringing noise kicks in that lasts for a few mins. If I'm not wrong, u r having postural hypotension too- the vertigo that comes when u sudden stand up after sitting or lying down.

All these r sides of oral minoxidil.

I was taking1gram of oral minoxidil at 1 point.

That was 9 years ago.


Bad news for u buddy, oral minxox does not work for Androgenetic Alopecia-afflicted scalp hair loss. It however, grows ur eyebrows, eyelashes, bidy hair n pubes- just about hair everywhere, ezceot thee hairline n top

 

[sktboiboi]

by the way thought i would like to highlight a very interesting point:

i googled 'how many needles are there in a tattoo gun' and this came up from Quora:

"The needles come in clusters. Different clusters for different jobs. A single needle liner draws a very thin line. A triple needle a thicker one. A five needle even thicker. For color, a three needle flat. For massive areas, there is a 14 needle round. There are different kinds of tubes to fit these needle bars. Round, flat, etc.

For liners: 1–3–5–7 etc.

For colors: 3–5–7–9–12–14 etc.

These can be in round, flat, and triangular configurations.

By the way, the more needles used, the less uncomfortable the feeling."





This is correct and the reason why i googled that in the first place , is for me to gauge the level of pain that i can expect(becos i have tattoos myself)


i remember the colouring part of the tattoo was the least painful when compared to the single needle used for the outline.

 

[HAIRGOAT]

U r gonna get tinnitus. That's just the beginning.

U said muffled hearing? Ya I rem having that side. First it wad as if I suddenly went deaf for no reason, then a few secs later, a ringing noise kicks in that lasts for a few mins. If I'm not wrong, u r having postural hypotension too- the vertigo that comes when u sudden stand up after sitting or lying down.

All these r sides of oral minoxidil.

I was taking1gram of oral minoxidil at 1 point.

That was 9 years ago.


Bad news for u buddy, oral minxox does not work for Androgenetic Alopecia-afflicted scalp hair loss. It however, grows ur eyebrows, eyelashes, bidy hair n pubes- just about hair everywhere, ezceot thee hairline n top

Lol think your being dramatic i been on minoxidil since 2004 and this is my first side and kicked in after doing 30mins of needling then slapping on the minoxidil going to gym and doing 3 sets of 10 pressups with a 300lb bodyweight and 5 sets of 20 rep 220lb rows.

I pretty sure the professionals official adverse will be avoid exercise for like 48hours at least when this comes out i bet, any way lesson learned wont be doing that again

 

[HAIRGOAT]

Plan is to do only 1 single pass per circular area of the M7 at 0.8mm once every fortnight.

Then splash on some topicals at once/day. I'm basing the contents of the topical on https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/312...air-miniaturization-in-androgenetic-alopecia/


I've got my topical aready, but the M7's not here yet n will take some time cos I just ordered it today. However, I have a manual roller that I have decided to make do with for the time being n shall thus- begin tonight

was thinking of getting a wireless pen you planning on full speed rpm? the protocol rpm is 7200 my derminator is 1500rpm those dr pens claim up to 18000rpm.
tho im not sure its going to matter for most what you use just need 1400 to 1800 needle holes per cm2 of scalp be sweet to use a fast pen and get it done quick just concerned quality of the needle holes may end up mattering tho the guy who got this working best had the cheapest pen set on full speed

 

[Throwaway94]

U r gonna get tinnitus. That's just the beginning.

U said muffled hearing? Ya I rem having that side. First it wad as if I suddenly went deaf for no reason, then a few secs later, a ringing noise kicks in that lasts for a few mins. If I'm not wrong, u r having postural hypotension too- the vertigo that comes when u sudden stand up after sitting or lying down.

All these r sides of oral minoxidil.

I was taking1gram of oral minoxidil at 1 point.

That was 9 years ago.


Bad news for u buddy, oral minxox does not work for Androgenetic Alopecia-afflicted scalp hair loss. It however, grows ur eyebrows, eyelashes, bidy hair n pubes- just about hair everywhere, ezceot thee hairline n top

Muffled hearing and going faint and pale are textbook effects of low blood sugar from not eating properly or not being fit enough before working out.

 

[StayPositive]

I’m on Oral Min too. I’m on 1.25mg and I’m coming up to three months.

My hair isn’t coming back so much as just being stable.

No side effect though!!!

I am on oral minoxidil too. 90 days. Hzir worse than ever. I was diffuse norwood 1 before minoxidil, now i am norwood 2.5 with even less density. Hope it will improve...