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The Follica protocol says to go with .8 to 1mm, but a lot of the people who have had success with microneedling have used 1.5 to 2mm. Does it seem wiser to go with Follica or try the greater depth?
Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed
- Thread starter benjt2
- Start date
I'd like to see this stuff being tested on a small area of scalp, like a few square centimeters.
It's probably the best way to #1, get a valid control group (do it on one side of the head and not on the other), and #2, make the process quick enough so the tester never falls short on the number of holes.
It's probably the best way to #1, get a valid control group (do it on one side of the head and not on the other), and #2, make the process quick enough so the tester never falls short on the number of holes.
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No reason to torture yourself and do all of that. Just microneedling for 30mins with my recalibrated D2 punching at 1mm gives results. Stop balding start microneedling
Weekly or every two weeks? Thanks.
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Every 10 days.
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D2 because I can afford it but I started a year ago with Dr Pen. Folks demonstrated results with a $10 cheap pen or even rollers.i would focus on making sure it's done regularly vs which device you need to get. A beautiful Steinway piano is another piece of furniture if you don't practice your scales everyday.
Was the Dr Pen working? I recently switched from the D2 to the A7 after not getting any results (I was only doing 5 minute sessions though).
Something I just realized when reading experience reports of both successful dermarollers/microneedlers and of massage proponents:
Most people who reported success on either of these mechanic manipulation-based regimens reported that they covered pretty big areas, sometimes even the whole scalp.
Maybe only covering affected areas (plus, according to the Follica protocol, 2 cm into adjacent non-affected areas) is not enough and the whole scalp should be covered by either massage or needling?
Reasons why covering the whole scalp might be beneficial:
- more growth factors released
- higher chance for a "quorum sensing cascade" (yep, pulling this one out of my a**)
- more blood flow because more repair work needs to be done
- creation/healing of more capillaries. This might actually the most important point. If you have a look at the blood supply network of the scalp, it's actually a pretty thin network with low blood pressure. If upstream blood supply (coming in from below, from the heart) is weak, downstream blood and nutrient supply (towards the top of the head) will also be. If, however, we encourage angiogenesis all over the scalp, getting more blood and nutrients to hair might be easier.
All of this is of course speculation. But there must be a reason why people who needled/massaged bigger areas (even non-affected ones) were more successful.
Most people who reported success on either of these mechanic manipulation-based regimens reported that they covered pretty big areas, sometimes even the whole scalp.
Maybe only covering affected areas (plus, according to the Follica protocol, 2 cm into adjacent non-affected areas) is not enough and the whole scalp should be covered by either massage or needling?
Reasons why covering the whole scalp might be beneficial:
- more growth factors released
- higher chance for a "quorum sensing cascade" (yep, pulling this one out of my a**)
- more blood flow because more repair work needs to be done
- creation/healing of more capillaries. This might actually the most important point. If you have a look at the blood supply network of the scalp, it's actually a pretty thin network with low blood pressure. If upstream blood supply (coming in from below, from the heart) is weak, downstream blood and nutrient supply (towards the top of the head) will also be. If, however, we encourage angiogenesis all over the scalp, getting more blood and nutrients to hair might be easier.
All of this is of course speculation. But there must be a reason why people who needled/massaged bigger areas (even non-affected ones) were more successful.
I think that's all correct, except where did you get that you should use the fastest setting?
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The protocol says "Needling head oscillation frequency: 120 Hz" - can anyone confirm if the Dr. Pen A6 is the correct frequency?
120 Hz = 120 oscillations per second = 7,200 RPM. Set your pen to 7,200 rpm, and take 5 minutes to go over your entire scalp. It won't take long to get the feel of how fast you need to move to achieve even coverage in 5 minutes. There's no need to be more precise than that.
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Thanks. According to this chart I found on Amazon the A6, which has 5 different speeds, can do 8000-18000 RPM. I had been using the highest setting, would you recommend I go with the lowest?
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So I should use 1.0 mm every 10-14 days instead of 1.5 mm every 7 days? Sounds good because it was very painful to use 1.5 mm. Anyone tried it out yet and had success?
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To clarify, the goal is to as far as possible, make 1600 distinct holes per cm squared, not simply plodding the dermapen into the same holes over and over again right?
waynakyo
Experienced Member
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Follica Adds Two Leaders in Aesthetic Medicine and Dermatology to Its Board of Directors
Follica Inc., a biotechnology company developing a regenerative platform designed to treat androgenetic alopecia, epithelial aging and other related conditions, announced the appointment of two veteran biotech executives to its Board of Directors.
www.biospace.com
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What's in here that's new for you to bounce?
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Has anyone seen this study from the end of last year?
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Conclusion: Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.
Microneedling in androgenetic alopecia; comparing two different depths of microneedles - PubMed
Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Conclusion: Microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.