Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

[John Difool]

Follica protocol take two. What are you trying to tell us?

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

It's good to see an additional study replicate Follica's findings and it's interesting that the lower depth gave the better result because it's been suggested by people both on this forum and elsewhere that it's probably smarter to go with deeper wounds.

 

[coolio]

It's good to see an additional study replicate Follica's findings and it's interesting that the lower depth gave the better result because it's been suggested by people both on this forum and elsewhere that it's probably smarter to go with deeper wounds.

Lots of guys on these forums try to get more progress by overdoing stuff. You can expect it by default.

Look at the wounding time window. IIRC the Follica reasearch said that best results were found by wounding once every 2 weeks. But you wouldn't know it by looking at a lot of the DIY experimenters' regimens. I guess they think Follica's research is lying or something.

 

[pegasus2]

That study included men and women. Women have thinner skin than men, so that can skew the results. There were also only 30 subjects in each group, and there was little difference between the two groups. I decided to stick to 1mm just because it's less painful than going deeper, and I never noticed any difference in results with going deeper, but that's hard to judge. I think my skin is thicker than average, and I have my hair grown out so 1mm for me is probably equivalent to the .8mm Follica uses. If you're almost slick bald, or if you're doing your temples then .75-.8mm may be just as good, especially if your skin thickness is normal to below normal.

 

[iCloud]

I am now needling a bit deeper (1.25) in the traditional “donor area” of my head, as my skin seems to be a lot thicker there than on the top of my head. I also think it makes a difference if you are slick bald, or if you are thinning diffusely and still have quite a bit of hair left.

 

[NorwoodGuardian]

Lots of guys on these forums try to get more progress by overdoing stuff. You can expect it by default.

Look at the wounding time window. IIRC the Follica reasearch said that best results were found by wounding once every 2 weeks. But you wouldn't know it by looking at a lot of the DIY experimenters' regimens. I guess they think Follica's research is lying or something.

But those who didn't follow Follica，wounding everyday, wounding to bleed, wounding randomly, can still get result.

 

[KNemo]

It could be deeper wounding can rebuild skin better while dense surface wounds is better for creating new hair.

I am now needling a bit deeper (1.25) in the traditional “donor area” of my head, as my skin seems to be a lot thicker there than on the top of my head. I also think it makes a difference if you are slick bald, or if you are thinning diffusely and still have quite a bit of hair left.

Absolutely. Diffuse thinners don't get the same type of skin changes someone with a slick bald area eventually will, like loss of skin thickness, dermal fat and so on.

 

[coolio]

But those who didn't follow Follica，wounding everyday, wounding to bleed, wounding randomly, can still get result.

You could also do it every 3 weeks and get results.

But a lot more DIY guys are wounding every single week than wounding every 3 weeks - because, overkill.

 

[NorwoodGuardian]

You could also do it every 3 weeks and get results.

But a lot more DIY guys are wounding every single week than wounding every 3 weeks - because, overkill.

I think 1mm weekly is not overkill? If have bleeding then I think weekly is overkill. I am not sure tho.

 

[iCloud]

I am doing it every two weeks. I am always thinking about doing it slightly more often, like every ten days, but somehow I can’t manage it. Sunday evenings are the best moments for me. During the week I just don’t find the energy, I’m often working long days and have an online evening class, do sports etc.

 

[THairy]

Just a quick question, I have the original Derminator for both facial and scalp needling, I find the thing somewhat powers out on the deeper settings ... does the Derminator2 have a stronger motor or does the "sensor control feedback" do a good job of maintaining necessary power and depth?

Thanks !

 

[THairy]

56 year old male with very slow progression of widows peaks, center portion had always remained thick until two years ago when I became very ill due to use of those damned proton pump inhibitors. High dose prolonged use can totally shut down your stomachs acid production, my pain forever was increasing, while doctors just kept upping the dose! Would have saved myself an immense amount of grief if only had listened to the naturopath decades ago who had correctly stated that my heartburn was caused by lack of acid and NOT overproduction!

Anyways, for the most part other than greying on the sides, my hair remains nice and dark, inherited some of mom's good hair genes and dad's not so good genes. Had given Rogain a try when I was only in my early twenties for the then slight widows peaks, after three months a bit of fine hair had regrown, while brother with more advanced receding had superior results, we both though had discontinued use of the Rogain.

About a month ago came across microneedling for hair loss and was eager to give it a try with already having the Derminator on hand for facial needling. First time went at 1.5 mil, week later 1.25 and then reducing that to 1 mil. At day seventeen, using a magnifying glass, was surprised to see little dark spots under the surface and a grouping of them a good distance away from the hairline. Then, I got the dumb bugger idea to cause more inflammation to my scalp by giving it a real hard scrubbing with a face cloth, like that of a burn ... why? cause thinking the more inflammation the better, lol. Well, that stopped things in its tracts and have needed to let my scalp heal, though a few of those hairs have broken the surface and I spy a few more even within the middle of the bald widows peaks. Downside is those intense needlings caused a massive shedding and now am thinner than ever on top! I intend to go back to 1.5 depth every ten days, cause I do think that kicked things into gear and got a nice bit of lingering inflammation going on. What about Minoxidil? ... well, I want to see how this might go without it since I do seem to be responding somewhat already, can always add it later!

 

[THairy]

Okay, pretty quiet here, though am getting back with things after taking a break to allow my scalp some rest after my bit of an over aggressive mistreatment. From my previous few needlings, several hairs had come to the surface, again many being a good distance from the hairline itself, so I think that's a good indication! I had a massive shed from those above mean hard needlings and now decided to go at my own speed and do what I think is best rather than what a particular protocol might indicate, no way in heck am I gonna be making hamburger out of my scalp, I think that just ends up shocking things more than anything! I just did a 1.5 mil and a decent thorough two passes or so and YES, those friggin needles hurt, though I was done in minutes and pretty easy to power through the pain when one isn't pulverizing the scalp. I'm gonna micro needle every ten days and see how all this now progresses, first without Minoxidil, though might add it later.

 

[John Difool]

So basically everything you do is entirely different than what is recommended in the patent,, the most obvious mistake being no minoxidil. Others went there to demonstrate that doesn't work but you just want to make sure. Okay then.

 

[coolio]

I'm always curious about results without minoxidil.

 

[John Difool]

Yes. Very curious to understand why folks would think iit would work at all.

 

[jd_uk]

Yes. Very curious to understand why folks would think iit would work at all.

There is a study that showed 15% regrowth from microneedling alone. Results were just better with minoxidil. Some people have reported results with dermarolling alone too. Personally I'm trying it because years ago minoxodil made me shed very quickly in the areas that I used it and the hair never returned despite being on minoxidil for 9 months later. That and the obvious dependency in it. No way do I want to use minoxidil all over my hair due to that experience and dependency issues.

 

[John Difool]

The results were stunning.....
The improvement in total hair density from baseline to 24 weeks resulted in the following:

Group 1 (topical 5% minoxidil): 18.8 cm2

Group 2 (microneedling only every 2 weeks): 23.4 cm2

Group 3 (microneedling + minoxidil 5%): 38.3 cm2

It clear to see that microneedling with topical minoxidil 5% resulted in the best hair growth, but this study also confirms that microneedling by itself is more effective in regrowing hair than a standalone treatment of topical minoxidil 5%.

So you want average regrowth not maximum one. Sure, why not.

 

[jd_uk]

The results were stunning.....
The improvement in total hair density from baseline to 24 weeks resulted in the following:

Group 1 (topical 5% minoxidil): 18.8 cm2

Group 2 (microneedling only every 2 weeks): 23.4 cm2

Group 3 (microneedling + minoxidil 5%): 38.3 cm2

It clear to see that microneedling with topical minoxidil 5% resulted in the best hair growth, but this study also confirms that microneedling by itself is more effective in regrowing hair than a standalone treatment of topical minoxidil 5%.

So you want average regrowth not maximum one. Sure, why not.

Actually to me that is a pretty stunning result. For microneedling alone, no medication whatsoever to provide better regrowth on average than 5% minoxodil which is the normal method of getting regrowth...that to me is very impressive.

And as I say, minoxidil just wasn't good for me for whatever reason (maybe the alcohol in it?), so its just something I can't risk again.

 

[John Difool]

That's why I switched to oral. Then topical the day I microneedle only.