Funding Desmond to go to World Hair Congress 2014 in South Korea!

[JZA70]

Then they have kids and pass on their genes, which is why 'all bald men will eventually die off' as stated by Python is unlikely.

That's true.

 

[hellouser]

Desmond posted another video with Dr. Cotsarelis explain in detail the wound theory!

[video=youtube;m84cOOc8-T0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m84cOOc8-T0[/video]

LOTS of awesome information here, also at 7:11 you'll notice Cotsarelis drops a bomb on the DKK1 theory, Doxycycline is able to turn DKK1 on and off!

TIME FOR A NEW TOPICAL ATTEMPT!

Also, looking at Doxycycline molecular weight is only 444 dalton, which will EASILY penetrate the skin as a topical.

 

[benjt]

That video was interesting in a number of ways.

1. wound size, mostly width, does matter a lot: in Cotsarelis' method tissue is not healed, i.e. it is not as some theorized that fibrosis is reversed or that miniaturized follicles are healed. Instead, the process at work is exclusively neogenesis. If the dermis + epidermis is not completely gone, you also dont get new follicles. Small punch holes are not enough, they only trigger healing.
2. as long as Dkk1 is active and inhibits Wnt, we have a huge problem, because even after an initial injection of Fgf9 the feed-forward mechanism (Fgf9 <-> Wnt) cannot be sustained
3. Cotsarelis and his team has not been slacking off; they simply ran into practical problems (probably related to point 2.)

These are majorly interesting. Also, points 1 and 2 in combination mean that dermarolling does not do anything except for increasing minoxidil absorption, as follicle healing does not happen and follicle neogenesis is impossible given a) lack in wound size and b) permanent Dkk1 activity. At least a lot of people can stop hurting themselves now.

 

[Python]

That video was interesting in a number of ways.

1. wound size, mostly width, does matter a lot: in Cotsarelis' method tissue is not healed, i.e. it is not as some theorized that fibrosis is reversed or that miniaturized follicles are healed. Instead, the process at work is exclusively neogenesis. If the dermis + epidermis is not completely gone, you also dont get new follicles. Small punch holes are not enough, they only trigger healing.
2. as long as Dkk1 is active and inhibits Wnt, we have a huge problem, because even after an initial injection of Fgf9 the feed-forward mechanism (Fgf9 <-> Wnt) cannot be sustained
3. Cotsarelis and his team has not been slacking off; they simply ran into practical problems (probably related to point 2.)

These are majorly interesting. Also, points 1 and 2 in combination mean that dermarolling does not do anything except for increasing minoxidil absorption, as follicle healing does not happen and follicle neogenesis is impossible given a) lack in wound size and b) permanent Dkk1 activity. At least a lot of people can stop hurting themselves now.

So with this new knowledge, do you feel there is no use in attempting another forum experiment? Like hellouser said, he did say that Doxycycline is able to turn DKK1 on and off. So maybe we just need a new protocol and see what happens? I just suspect that we are going to have to do something more extreme than small wounding.

In any case, if we do try something new, we have a lot of members, so we can be sort of like the test subjects to see if anything like this works.

 

[Agahi]

Topical or oral Doxycycline?

 

[hellouser]

Topical or oral Doxycycline?

Topical

 

[JZA70]

Oh god, we don't need anymore experimental topical bullsh1t treatments. Add it to the pile with CB and RU.

Cotsarelis definitely wont be the one to cure hair loss. Honestly, I think he's just fascinated about it but that's it.

We have the right technology to grow hair, its beyond me why he wastes his time with studies that go nowhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAS_k1IrJpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLLkmY_t9k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmvdrPd09s

All that is what's happening right now ^ If you can't beat it, then don't bother. We don't need anymore treatments. It's 2014 FFS.

 

[hellouser]

Oh god, we don't need anymore experimental topical bullsh1t treatments. Add it to the pile with CB and RU.

Cotsarelis definitely wont be the one to cure hair loss. Honestly, I think he's just fascinated about it but that's it.

We have the right technology to grow hair, its beyond me why he wastes his time with studies that go nowhere.

Because we have garbage options for bridging. We need anything and everything until a full out cure comes out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmvdrPd09s

All that is what's happening right now ^ If you can't beat it, then don't bother. We don't need anymore treatments. It's 2014 FFS.

Nice find, I've never seen that video before.

 

[Python]

Oh god, we don't need anymore experimental topical bullsh1t treatments. Add it to the pile with CB and RU.

Cotsarelis definitely wont be the one to cure hair loss. Honestly, I think he's just fascinated about it but that's it.

We have the right technology to grow hair, its beyond me why he wastes his time with studies that go nowhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAS_k1IrJpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLLkmY_t9k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmvdrPd09s

All that is what's happening right now ^ If you can't beat it, then don't bother. We don't need anymore treatments. It's 2014 FFS.

So you're perfectly fine with waiting 10 more years?

 

[JZA70]

So you're perfectly fine with waiting 10 more years?

We're going to be waiting whether we like it or not and even if I'm not ok with waiting, WTF am I going to do about it ? Nothing.

I'm not going to call up Jahoda tomorrow and tell him my hair is getting bad and to hurry the f*ck up.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Lol. You don't presume that approach would grab their attention.hone:

 

[dreamermerlin]

So you need to make big and wide wounds?
Well, that doesn't sound too good to me, because doing so you have a great risk of permanent scarring.
Dermarolling may be doing nothing for hair growth, but at least it doesn't leave scars...
What should we do now? Drill 1 cm wide holes on our scalp,s like on that mouse...
By the way, it was only done on a mouse? So it may be irrelevant at all for humans?
Hair loss for mice is completely cured, someone tell this scientists to get to people, and leave the poor mice...

I think ZJA70 is right, and Cotsarelis won't find any cure.
These scientists are like men with eyes covered, they have almost nothing, unfortunately.
A cure may be far far away. Let's remember that finasteride & min were designed to treat other conditions in the begining, only after that it came out they help hair. They are simply accidental treatments for hair.

It's 2 years since Cots came with this PGD2 elevated in bald areas discovery, as i know there are PGD2 inhibitor on the market for other conditions(asthma, etc), and nothing figures out?

Imagine they would discover a very potent drug/topical for DHT inhibition only in the scalp, without sides. That would be a very good thing and i strongly think this route is infintely more accesible and doable, thant that science-fiction with hair cloning.

 

[I.D WALKER]

rotest: No more mice studies!

 

[dreamermerlin]

rotest: No more mice studies!

How right!
Someone tell them to move on to humans, if they want to be credible and someone to fund their research.

 

[bushbush]

How right!
Someone tell them to move on to humans, if they want to be credible and someone to fund their research.

Credible like unqualified anonymous armchair experts on a hair loss forum?

 

[I.D WALKER]

No, not exactly. More merely like credible hard working professionals who maturely understand their role and responsibility. Medical experts truly intent on making greater/improved differences than their respected predecessors.

 

[bushbush]

No, not exactly. More merely like credible hard working professionals who maturely understand their role and responsibility. Medical experts truly intent on making greater/improved differences than their respected predecessors.

If said professionals do not work in the field it is neither their role nor responsibility to comment on the suitability of mouse models for this kind of research.

 

[dreamermerlin]

If said professionals do not work in the field it is neither their role nor responsibility to comment on the suitability of mouse models for this kind of research.

I see you put too much faith in researchers.
In practice they aren;t as brilliant as you think, all they do is pretty much "trial and error" work.
I see you perceive them like some type of "guru's" who know everything. Actually, they are still "in the dark" about hair loss. Big time! Yes, there is finasteride &min, but guess what, finasteride and min were invented for other purposes, it was only a matter of luck they also work for hair loss.
But you can't blame them, hair follicles are something very tiny, gro very slow, etc, the predisposition for balding is encryted in the genes, etc, so it's very hard to figure out a possible cure.
But those expriments on mice, what result did they have? Almost nothing. So they'd better focus on real human hair.
Of course they can experiemtn with whatever they want, but i wouldn;t be so enthusiastic about stuff tested only on mouse. Like this with doxicycline...

And, what, isn't it obvious that human scalp hair is a totally different thing than the "fur" of a mouse?
Never mind, they already proved they can regrow 100% hair on a bald mouse, but on men what can they do? Almost nothing...

Wtf, even in humans, women's hair behaves totally different than man's, never mind about mice...

 

[hellouser]

Imagine they would discover a very potent drug/topical for DHT inhibition only in the scalp, without sides. That would be a very good thing and i strongly think this route is infintely more accesible and doable, thant that science-fiction with hair cloning.

There is, numb nuts. It's called CB-03-01.

 

[resu]

Propecia wasn't accidental, they knew it would work for hair loss.