Great Study About Dutasteride ,finasteride , Hairline And Haircount

[michel sapin]

I just had acess to a great study comparing finasteride and dutasteride and bitemporal recession, haircount and hormone level change .
this is for the expert . i have always claimed that 5 mg could provide better result that 1 mg .

So we can see that duta cause an increase of testosterone of 25 % , so we can guess that the oestrogen would raise up of 25 % too?

 

[michel sapin]

we can see that 1 mg increase testosterone of only 12 % , so as well as oestorgen . But produce great result on bitemporal recession, even better than 2,5 mg . Strange .
SO i think that 5 mg could be a good option for those who can't take duta .

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

I do not think it is wise to assume a 25% increase in T is going to also rise to an equal increase in E2. The conversion to E2 varies wildly in men, but the reaction to T itself is not as crazy.

Here is what I think is interesting about this study:

1. Serum DHT returned to baseline for all groups eventually??? Does anyone have an explanation for this? Look at Figure 4 and then read the explanation for it:

Serum DHT returned to within 25% of baseline in a median of 86 days after treatment (range 71-307 days) for the dutasteride 0.5 mg group and in a median of 155 days (range 72-421 days) for the dutasteride 2.5 mg group.
​

I find this almost crazy.

NEVERMIND I started to point this out then realized it was referring to TERMINATION OF TREATMENT. Idiot me.

2. The effectiveness of 2.5 MG dutasteride is crazy over 0.5 MG! I am curious if there is a cost-effective way to take that much now.

 

[michel sapin]

i agree with the fact that it varies form personn to person . But with duta you inhibit all your DHT, so the oestrogenic power is even worse .
Do you agree that 5 mg of propecia could offer better result than 1 mg ?
and i think that 2,5 mg only work faster than 0,5 mg .
i saw another study , and it showed that the haircount peak faster on 2,5 mg at 6 month . but at 1 year it was almost the same for 0,5 mg and 2,5 mg duta

 

[Armando Jose]

Interesting, this study
Supported by GlaxoSmithKline.

 

[Roberto_72]

This study does not compare 5mg fina to 1.25 mg fina. It does 2.5 mg duta. So I do not understand the premise that 5mg fina is better than 1.25, unless one wants to compare figures from different studies (which is a no-no).

What is interesting is that the self-evaluation is very different than exo-evaluation and the latter basically suggests fina is "frontally" useless for half the patients.

 

[whatevr]

This study does not compare 5mg fina to 1.25 mg fina. It does 2.5 mg duta. So I do not understand the premise that 5mg fina is better than 1.25, unless one wants to compare figures from different studies (which is a no-no).

What is interesting is that the self-evaluation is very different than exo-evaluation and the latter basically suggests fina is "frontally" useless for half the patients.

Finasteride would have been useful for me, if I wanted to stay a NW3 for the rest of my life. It probably would've halted my hair loss there lol.
Because my hair was rapidly degenerating from NW2 to NW3 while on it. The amount of scalp DHT reduction on 1 mg finasteride is almost useless (~30% if I am not mistaken) and on the frontal part of the scalp that is just simply not enough shift in the DHT/E ratio to even maintain that hair alive.

So yeah, doesn't reduce scalp DHT anywhere near enough to save your hairline...
But reduces serum DHT by up to 70% to give you some nice puffy nipples and beginning of gyno / ED.

That is some next-gen medicine right there.

P.S. Roberto are you not worried about potential skin thinning from the hydrocortisone in your topical lotion if you are applying it every day? That was a concern of mine when using Alpicort which had prednisolone in it.

 

[michel sapin]

6% had a decrease in frontal hair , while the rest maintained or improved on 5 mg .
even on 2,5 mg 2 % decreased .
So the best dose is 0,5 mg duta .
And whatever you are wrong about fina , the important dht is not scalp dht , but the dht in the DP . type 2-5ar , and fina decreas this by 85 to 90 % .
but you are totally right about serum dht and gyno .
this is so unfair to know that there is basically a drug which can stop hairloss but give gyno in return for those who are too sensitive to oestrogen and androgen decrease

 

[whatevr]

And whatever you are wrong about fina , the important dht is not scalp dht , but the dht in the DP . type 2-5ar , and fina decreas this by 85 to 90 % .

They are both important, the study even tells you this when comparing the 0.5 mg and the 2.5 mg Dutasteride dose.

 

[michel sapin]

the imortant fact , is that while on dutasteride , nobody is worse . All at least maitained or improved .
this is a real dilemna . if the new treatment would really come in the market in 2020 , i would keep taking my propecia and minoxidil and let my hair reach a Norwood 3 or 4 .
But maybe it will never happen , and i will regret the fact of not taking duta all my life . But gyno is also horrible . great body or hair , this is the choice .

 

[michel sapin]

this is crazy what we have to do to keep our hair . when i first started treatment , i said i would never take propecia , because it was too dangerous . So i started with saw palmetto ( and i was scared to take it ) .
then because my hair keep worsening i started propecia hoping i was saved .
then i tried 5 mg . And then i will have to try duta .
And we all know this is a really dangerous drug .
some people reach a point of deseperation that they are taking oral spironolactone and crazy stuff like this , this is insane.
WE all know that DHT is really important for our body , but we take propecia .

 

[Grasshüpfer]

I wish I had ignored all warnings and went on finasteride immediately.

@whatevr there are more guys with super high estrogen and even more hair loss on finasteride. I think there is something different going on with you and eg. sayajingain.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Most guys won't get gyno on any amount of dutasteride

 

[michel sapin]

you are sure gray man ? in the long run , i think you will have at least puffy nipples . total deprivation of DHT and estrogen raise = high chance of gyno

 

[Roberto_72]

P.S. Roberto are you not worried about potential skin thinning from the hydrocortisone in your topical lotion if you are applying it every day? That was a concern of mine when using Alpicort which had prednisolone in it.

Of course. However, every six months the derm checks that too. Also consider alpicort has 0.2% prednisolone whereas my lotion has 0.05% (even though I do not know how the two steroids compare).

 

[Roberto_72]

Finasteride would have been useful for me, if I wanted to stay a NW3 for the rest of my life. It probably would've halted my hair loss there lol.
Because my hair was rapidly degenerating from NW2 to NW3 while on it. The amount of scalp DHT reduction on 1 mg finasteride is almost useless (~30% if I am not mistaken) and on the frontal part of the scalp that is just simply not enough shift in the DHT/E ratio to even maintain that hair alive.

So yeah, doesn't reduce scalp DHT anywhere near enough to save your hairline...
But reduces serum DHT by up to 70% to give you some nice puffy nipples and beginning of gyno / ED.

That is some next-gen medicine right there.

P.S. Roberto are you not worried about potential skin thinning from the hydrocortisone in your topical lotion if you are applying it every day? That was a concern of mine when using Alpicort which had prednisolone in it.

6% had a decrease in frontal hair , while the rest maintained or improved on 5 mg .
even on 2,5 mg 2 % decreased .
So the best dose is 0,5 mg duta .
And whatever you are wrong about fina , the important dht is not scalp dht, but the dht in the DP . type 2-5ar , and fina decreas this by 85 to 90 % .
but you are totally right about serum dht and gyno .
this is so unfair to know that there is basically a drug which can stop hairloss but give gyno in return for those who are too sensitive to oestrogen and androgen decrease

Take a look at the green arrows as opposed to the red.

Vertex: duta 2.5 no change is 22%. Fina 5 is 43%. In this case, lower "no change" percentages are better because the rest has "improved".
Frontal: duta 2.5 no change is 37%. Fina 5 is 53%. This means many more duta users have improved rather than experiencing "no change".

Am I missing something or, according to this study, 2.5 duta is the better option for both vertex and frontal? If one does not consider side effects, that is.
Oh, that, and the fact the study was sponsored by the manufacturers of duta


PS: we are commenting on a study of 1998 and still there is next to nothing new. SMH.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

you are sure gray man ? in the long run , i think you will have at least puffy nipples . total deprivation of DHT and estrogen raise = high chance of gyno

Positive.

Otherwise you would see massive lawsuits with recorded gyno cases everywhere. None of the studies support that.

 

[dralex]

O baby, time to jump on duta

 

[g.i joey]

Positive.

Otherwise you would see massive lawsuits with recorded gyno cases everywhere. None of the studies support that.

This is actually very true, I've seen tons of commercials regarding meds causing gyno and lawyers trying to bank on it. finasteride and dutasteride would definitely be a perfect target if this were actually the case. I still think finasteride is more likely to cause gyno symptoms rather than actual growth.

 

[michel sapin]

i hope you are right gi joey .
And yeah for sure 2,5 mg of duta is better than fina . But this dose is too heavy.
And when i started propecia , i din't even want to improve , or regrown hair . I just wantd to maitain . but unfortunately i fall in the few % who " moderately decrease "