Guys Let's All Get Rich - Are You Ready?

[JeanLucBB]

Then what is your rationale for playing short term instead of just maximizing your total stash and trying to hold it long term? Are you skeptical these currencies can enter the real world? You have already said you think technological failure is unlikely.

Also as I said above it seems LTC is 4x the coin count, and ETH is 5x the coin count. Are these faster currencies for practical use? ie. More likely to become useful IRL?

I'm guessing based on limited information they will both ramp up to massive levels in 5-7 years as BTC has over the past 5-7 years. Wondering which may be most useful though in the long run to guide my split.

Litecoin is not a better tech than Bitcoin, the only difference is a faster block time and less people use it so it "feels" fast because the network isn't clogges. If it had the same amount of people transacting as Bitcoin people would quickly realise it is a shitcoin.

Bitcoin has incoming secondary scaling approaches like Lightning network potentially incoming too which will offer rapid transactions with ultra low fees. Its potential for mainstream adoption and use as both a currency and store of value is far from over.

 

[IdealForehead]

Litecoin is not a better tech than Bitcoin, the only difference is a faster block time and less people use it so it "feels" fast because the network isn't clogges. If it had the same amount of people transacting as Bitcoin people would quickly realise it is a shitcoin.

Bitcoin has incoming secondary scaling approaches like Lightning network potentially incoming too which will offer rapid transactions with ultra low fees. Its potential for mainstream adoption and use as both a currency and store of value is far from over.

From what you're saying then the only advantage of buying in on LTC is that it's earlier in on its growth curve. Which is not an insignificant advantage. The fact that it's growing at a similar rate to me on casual appraisal as BTC did 7 years ago suggests that it may continue to follow BTC's trend (though requiring 4x the interest to get an equivalent price spike).

As I understand, LTC is a fork of BTC, so they are basically the same tech. That means any enhancements made to BTC to make it faster or more practical could easily be applied to LTC.

Thus these two should have parallel utility if both remain popular enough to get somewhere in the long run.

What about ETH?

 

[JeanLucBB]

From what you're saying then the only advantage of buying in on LTC is that it's earlier in on its growth curve. Which is not an insignificant advantage. The fact that it's growing at a similar rate to me on casual appraisal as BTC did 7 years ago suggests that it may continue to follow BTC's trend (though requiring 4x the interest to get an equivalent price spike).

As I understand, LTC is a fork of BTC, so they are basically the same tech. That means any enhancements made to BTC to make it faster or more practical could easily be applied to LTC.

Thus these two should have parallel utility if both remain popular enough to get somewhere in the long run.

What about ETH?

Not an advantage, because ultimately it may prove an entirely redundant coin and therefore it is unlikely to see major adoption. They COULD have parallel utility, but it is more likely people will just flock to bitcoin particularly if layer two scaling solutions like lightning succeed. The world does not need 10 versions of the same currency, no business is going to accept 10 coins that do the same thing and neither will users of cryptocurrency. I wouldn't bet against litecoin in the short to medium term, but it has zero advantages as an investment in the longer term.

If I want an alternate generalised transaction/store of value currency I would look to Dash or Bcash.

 

[IdealForehead]

I see an oversaturation of the market with a lot of alt coins with redundant utility which tells me at some point many of them will be wiped off the board and lots of people will lose money. Fr every day currency/transactions by far the best choices are XLM and XRP - these are insanely fast coins that are totally instant; that maters when you are at a cash register paying for coffee. Coins like ETH and LTC are a hybrid or an improvement in utility over BTC; they can handle more transactions but the coin count actually doesn't come into play for this since you can deal in fractions. The sad part is that for an everyday coin the number one criteria is stability, so you need a coin that doesn't fluctuate too much otherwise there is too much uncertainty and its utility is diminished. I think there will be investment coins (such as BTC / ETH) and everyday spending coins with large market caps such as XRP and XLM in order to cope with the large amount of transactions. As far as government coins, several countries have already expressed interest in making their own (such as Russia and Venezuela) - the US is probably not too far behind in discussing that sort of approach though it would be a really giant shift and most likely it would become just the crypto dollar which would be backed by the dollar (which is basically what "Tether" or USDT is) so it provides stability without growth/loss.

That's interesting, and I can see a parallel marketplace between useful coins for daily life and coins for investment.

But if you're correct about government getting into creating their own cryptos for daily life, then the more important distinction to anticipate will be:

1) Gov't cryptos for sanctioned daily use
2) Underground cryptos for criminal/unregulated/unsanctioned use

Because if gov'ts create their own cryptos, then those everyday currently unregulated fast spending coins like XRP and will XLM have no usefulness. They will be replaced by the gov't ones.

In that case, the best investment long term are the cryptos that are not fastest, but the most decentralized, secure, and established, as they are most likely to be of continuing use to the criminal world, which I expect as stated previously will continue to be the backbone of this economy.

Even if gov'ts potentially create their own cryptos (which I am still skeptical will happen in any reasonable timeframe...), people will still need BTC/LTC/ETH or similar technologies for the underground economy. In that case, it seems reasonable to expect that the biggest players now will still be the biggest players for that in 5 years as well.

 

[IdealForehead]

Not an advantage, because ultimately it may prove an entirely redundant coin and therefore it is unlikely to see major adoption. They COULD have parallel utility, but it is more likely people will just flock to bitcoin particularly if layer two scaling solutions like lightning succeed. The world does not need 10 versions of the same currency, no business is going to accept 10 coins that do the same thing and neither will users of cryptocurrency. I wouldn't bet against litecoin in the short to medium term, but it has zero advantages as an investment in the longer term.

If I want an alternate generalised transaction/store of value currency I would look to Dash or Bcash.

Yeah I can see what you mean, but we have options like VISA and MasterCard that are "basically the same thing" or Coke and Pepsi that are "basically the same thing". People like choice and options. Even if they are basically the same thing. Or gold and silver (both just shiny minerals of a different color, consistency, and commonness - I know different physics too but I'm talking cosmetics).

There can be plenty of room in most markets for parallel almost identical technologies. They may change over time in different ways that would be hard to anticipate too.

Fundamentally I agree with you that BTC makes a better investment overall, but BTC is going to get really intense soon and people will want another alternative. I think the crypto marketplace has room for 3-5 currencies to be established long term. Not just one. It's too big of an area long term for just one.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Cryptocalypse.

At least Bcash is pumping.

 

[Rudiger]

Coinbase selling BTC $200-400 overvalued? And it's blatantly sitting there on the site

 

[JeanLucBB]

Yeah I can see what you mean, but we have options like VISA and MasterCard that are "basically the same thing" or Coke and Pepsi that are "basically the same thing". People like choice and options. Even if they are basically the same thing. Or gold and silver (both just shiny minerals of a different color, consistency, and commonness).

There can be plenty of room in most markets for parallel almost identical technologies. They may change over time in different ways that would be hard to anticipate too.

Fundamentally I agree with you that BTC makes a better investment overall, but BTC is going to get really intense soon and people will want another alternative. I think the crypto marketplace has room for 3-5 currencies to be established long term. Not just one. It's too big of an area long term for just one.

I agree, but room for 2-4 generalised transaction coins, unlikely to be 10. There also has to be a reason why it would continue to achieve mainstream adoption if it offers nothing that coins elsewhere do not.

"Fundamentally I agree with you that BTC makes a better investment overall, but BTC is going to get really intense soon and people will want another alternative. "

They won't, that is the nature of the network effect. When Facebook was decimating the competition back when it overtook Myspace, would you have invested in Facebook, or some random shitty social network that no one used hoping it would do the same thing?

You have to group various coins into sections and features. My strategy is group and select the best members of each. This is also a good means of understanding the space and the nature of their features.

Development networks
Eth
Neo
EOS
Lisk

Centralised
Ripple
IOTA

ERC-20 tokens (Ethereum based tokens)
BAT
OMG
Golem

Privacy Coins
Verge
Monero
Zcash
PivX


Generalised transaction coins
Bitcoin
Litecoin
Bcash
Dash

 

[JeanLucBB]

Coinbase selling BTC $200-400 overvalued? And it's blatantly sitting there on the site

All over the f*****g place. Koreans always pay the biggest premium during frenzies.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Hopefully we get down to 13k USD then pump again. It's what the chart has essentially followed for the past 9 months almost after all time highs.

 

[IdealForehead]

Hopefully we get down to 13k USD then pump again. It's what the chart has essentially followed for the past 9 months almost after all time highs.

Thanks for your grouping system. Looks interesting. I will have to read and research more. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

Fair point on the Myspace comparison. Vs. Investing in Twitter (which is different from Facebook so still has room to exist).

Are you guessing this Sunday will drive it down then a bit? Or too nervous to speculate?

How is your feeling on etherium? You haven't commented.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Thanks for your grouping system. Looks interesting. I will have to read and research more. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow.

You guessing this Sunday will drive it down then a bit? Or too nervous to speculate?

Net bearish, but at the same time net bearish events typically work out well for bitcoin in the longer term.

 

[IdealForehead]

Net bearish, but at the same time net bearish events typically work out well for bitcoin in the longer term.

Hoping so too! Since I can't buy any significant quantity on Coinbase for another week.

Also still wondering if you'd care to comment on Ethereum. What are your feelings there?

 

[JeanLucBB]

Hoping so too! Since I can't buy any significant quantity on Coinbase for another week.

Also still wondering if you'd care to comment on Ethereum. What are your feelings there?

Scaling solutions desperately needed, network clogged by crypto kitties alone this week (I'm not kidding) but at the same time the most promising of the development network coins, and the best developers on board. Centralised development however and no concrete decision on inflation in the network at this point although hopefully capped in the longer term.

I can't help but compare a proof of stake coin like future eth (currently proof of work, mining system like bitcoin) to a government bond because of the small eth yield it will provide for staking. And in the ultra long term who would choose a government bond with inflation and default risk over a trustless and non-inflationary network in the case that it ended up with tens or hundreds of millions with ownership in the network? Other important question is how effective the decentralised applications are and their usecase in the longer term to bring more users into the network.

Ultimately more complicated to value than bitcoin and more competition.

 

[IdealForehead]

Scaling solutions desperately needed, network clogged by crypto kitties alone this week (I'm not kidding) but at the same time the most promising of the development network coins, and the best developers on board. Centralised development however and no concrete decision on inflation in the network at this point although hopefully capped in the longer term.

I can't help but compare a proof of stake coin like future eth (currently proof of work, mining system like bitcoin) to a government bond because of the small eth yield it will provide for staking. And in the ultra long term who would choose a government bond with inflation and default risk over a trustless and non-inflationary network in the case that it ended up with tens or hundreds of millions with ownership in the network? Other important question is how effective the decentralised applications are and their usecase in the longer term to bring more users into the network.

Ultimately more complicated to value than bitcoin and more competition.

Sounds like you're investing in others but you're mostly just going all in on BTC for the long haul. Probably a winning strategy. Despite the fact that the price is already so high, I think it will be six-seven figures per coin in not that much time.

And I think irrespective of anything else that happens, it will always be criminally useful, so should be resilient even against attempts of governments to quash it.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Sounds like you're investing in others but you're mostly just going all in on BTC for the long haul. Probably a winning strategy. Despite the fact that the price is already so high, I think it will be six-seven figures per coin in not that much time.

And I think irrespective of anything else that happens, it will always be criminally useful, so should be resilient even against attempts of governments to quash it.

My initial buy was split 50:50 eth to bitcoin and then picked up shitcoins a long the way.

Also bitcoin is not criminally useful. It's a public blockchain, not exactly a great way for someone to conduct criminal activity.

Monero is what you're looking for if you want to engage in illegal doings.

 

[JeanLucBB]

This volatility is stressing me out. I haven't thought about sex in like 5 days. I need a break for christ sake.

 

[IdealForehead]

My initial buy was split 50:50 eth to bitcoin and then picked up shitcoins a long the way.

Also bitcoin is not criminally useful. It's a public blockchain, not exactly a great way for someone to conduct criminal activity.

Monero is what you're looking for if you want to engage in illegal doings.

Every steroid and drug dealing site I've been on will take BTC. So people are obviously happy to use it for that. It doesn't have to be perfect for criminals to like it. I'll keep in mind Monero though. Criminals will always need crypto, more than anyone else really I think, so it may be a good backup strategy to keep some interest in going wherever the drugs/sex/mafia types go.

How long have you been buying? Ie. When did you jump in on this? Do you have any regrets?

 

[IdealForehead]

This volatility is stressing me out. I haven't thought about sex in like 5 days. I need a break for christ sake.

Why is it stressing you? If you're holding for the long term who cares? Just relax and let the months/years do their thing. Keep investing whatever you have along the way.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Why is it stressing you? If you're holding for the long term who cares? Just relax and let the months/years do their thing. Keep investing whatever you have along the way.

On the exchanges I use my dads portfolio is swinging back and forth more than 40 grand in the space of an hour. Madness.

I can't think of anything but crypto and all my friends are bugging me about it too now and I feel somewhat responsible for their cluelessness too.

I need a job too but how the f*** can I get myself incentive to get one when I'm making more than a years salary in like two f*****g months.