Gyno from finasteride - Advice please

[Ende]

The only thing I'd correct on this is I don't think your psychological feelings are impacted much at all by DHT, but rather by estrogen and another thing people overlook: The other hormones that are 5AR type 2 Reductase. DHT isn't the only one, thought it is the most prominent

I think DHT affects aggression. Just read what BB's say about the effects of certain steroids; http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabo ... 64999.html
Most of them are very androgenic, and non aromatizing - like DHT.

Which other hormones are you talking about?

 

[123000123]

Enden,

Please reply when you can. Many thanks.

So I stopped taking finasteride for a couple of months and immediately started 50mg zinc picolinate. Everything returned back to normal. I was meant to start again in a couple of weeks from when I stopped but I had some other sh*t I had to sort out.

So I started back on finasteride a couple of weeks ago (this time at 1mg generic Finpecia) as well as 50mg zinc daily and almost immediately my "sides" returned, that is slight nipple/breast enlargement/sensitivity. I can only feel very slight lumps/pain when I pinch/poke around for long enough. However, libido is as good as ever!

So my questions:

1) Given my libido is fine, do you think I need to worry about gyno? Is it even possible to get gyno if downstairs is working as well as ever? [i have definitely always had a slightly larger left nipple since puberty. i also feel i have probably a slightly too high body fat percentage, even though I'm quite a skinny guy. overall i have a suspicion my estrogen has always been probably slightly too high]. However, as soon as I start taking finasteride, there seems to be an almost immediate reaction of breast tenderness. Taking all this in to account, do you think I need to worry about gyno?

2) Regardless of your answer to question 1, regarding Arimidex: can it have a negative affect on hair if taken in combination with finasteride? [talking about minimal possible dosage]. Would there be any harm in taking it to combat breast tenderness but also to potentially target high body fat percentage centred around thighs/***/face?

3) Regarding that DHT cream (i forget it's name), to what extent is it absorbed systemically (if taken in combination with finasteride). i.e. can it have a negative impact on my hair if i'm using it on nipples?


Sorry for the long questions and the poor format and writing, am in a rush!

Many thanks

 

[Ende]

I've been aware, for some time now, that there are possibly two ways to get gynecomastia from finasteride. One is severe DHT deficiency and elevated estrogen level, the other is slight DHT deficiency - which causes lack of maintenance. Think of it this way; estrogen activates the tissue, and DHT deactivates the tissue. Tissue will accumulate over time, if you're slightly DHT deficient, and I believe that it's possible to get gynecomastia this way, without estrogen affecting your sexual function negatively. You state that you're overweight. From personal experience, and the fact that excessive fat contains a lot of aromatase enzymes, makes me believe that it's a problem, and you should do something about it.

Stay away from Arimidex and other prescription AI's. They will drive your estrogen level too low, which presents several other problems, among the reduced libido and ED. Your hair isn't the issue. My advice is to get hold of Andractim, and use a small drop on each side of your chest when needed. The trick is to use only enough to saturate the receptors in the target area. Excessive amounts will travel throughout your body until it finds something to bind to. Just be very careful around women with this stuff, it's virilizing. Andractim is available through allsaintsclinic.org. Expect delivery within one month.

You should try to increase the zinc dose in the meantime, and see if it releaves the symptoms. Take a look at my thread too. I've added and updated some information. It changes from time to time, according to my own, and others experience.

 

[123000123]

As always, thanks for your help.

It seems you've updated your views and knowledge on these issues since I last requested your help, in that it's not necessarily the altered t:e ratio which is potentially causing these problems. Although this adds to the complexity and means it's not just a matter of aromatase inhibiting!

I guess I will pursue the following:

Reducing finasteride dosage to 0.5mg/day
Doubling zinc to 100mg/day
Attempt to lower body fat % through diet/cardio
Look in to Andractim

Questions:

1) Is there anything I have to worry about with 100mg zinc daily? zinc toxicity or copper problems or anything like that?

2) Regarding Arimidex (again): i know you do not recommend arimidex and i understand this, but would there be any problem in taking a tiny amount to help with fat loss (rather than ED, libido issues) in typically "female" target areas in combination with diet/cardio? (say, forgetting about hair issues/finasteride sides/etc). I've read that people do take it to help with weight loss, and also read it only reduces estrogen by ~50%...

 

[Ende]

I would stick with 1 mg finasteride a day, and try 75 mg zinc a day for a week, before adjusting up to 100 mg. It's not any problems related to large doses of zinc in this range, which I'm aware of. Arimidex has no use regarding fat loss, and it will give you severe problems. If you really want a drug to go with diet (preferably ketogenic) and exercise to accelerate fat loss, you should look into oxandrolone; 10 - 20 mg a day. It demands knowledge and preparation.

 

[123000123]

Hmm, looks good but I will not be able to get that in to Australia.. and doubt I will be able to find local. Aus is very hard to get stuff in to.. any other ideas?

Many thanks again for your help

 

[Ende]

Not really. Ketogenic diet is very effective. You don't need any drugs. Speaking of drugs; amphetamine was used as weight loss drug around the 60's if I remember correctly. It's very addictive, so it's not used for this condition anymore, only ADHD and narcolepsy. However, pilots in the U.S. air force are required to use amphetamine on long missions. Makes you wonder. It makes you lose weight because it suppresses your appetite and makes you more active. It's not healthy IMO. I believe that it's possible to use it safely with small doses and strict supervision. Others will say it's madness. Just my thoughts.

 

[123000123]

Having used amphetamine before, it really only works as an appetite suppressant which means I would lose a sh*t load of muscle too. Would really need something anabolic for my purposes I believe. Anavar actually looks like a wonder drug to be honest. What a pity.

Out of interest, what's your current regime Enden? Are you still on finasteride? What dosage? And how's your hair? What are you currently using to manage sides?

 

[Ende]

I'm currently using 1 mg finasteride (since march this year), 100 mg testosterone enanthate once every week and Andractim. Andractim is a part of an experiment I'm doing now. I've been using cabergoline to suppress the prolactin level, and anastrozole to suppress the estrogen level. I've been experimenting with several other drugs as well, mainly steroids.

My hair, I'm a NW2, diffuse thinning in a NW6 pattern. I've been using 5% Rogaine for a couple of months in addition, and it has improved the condition a lot. I think I'm going to grow back most of what I've lost. Still got a lot of small, miniaturized hairs. I'm also using 2% Nizoral every day, to avoid seborrheic dermatitis flaring up.

 

[SpikeCB]

123000123 and Ende, I know its been years since the last post but what happened?

I have been on Minoxidil and finasteride for 3 months and have observed slightly puffy nipples, but no sensitivity. I have immediately stopped taking the tablet but want to continue as shedding has mostly stopped after 2 months of starting my regimen. I am pretty skinny and my chest has always been flat but lately I have observed slight protrusion. Did zinc tablets work for you? Does age have any relation to getting gyno?