Hair Growth From Diabetes Treatment Heberprot- P

[IdealForehead]

34% increase in density would be significant and noticeable, so there should be photos showing this, correct? Can you link them please, if like to see these amazing PRP results.

The full article is here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5343942/

They included very few pictures, as journals have limited space and pictures are not as good scientific or statistical evidence as hair counts. But there are a few pictures in there.

Eg. Both of these guys were from the plain, unactivated Biomed CPunT brand PRP trial arm:

Not a "cure" but pretty damn good I think for only 3 injections and only 3 months time. These guys weren't even on any finasteride/dutasteride/minoxidil during the PRP or for 1 year prior. So this was pure PRP result.

And to review, again, I misread the numbers the first time. The correct results were:

- Plain Biomed CPunT PRP (18 patients, Result: 31% increase in density after 12 weeks with 3 monthly treatments)
- Activated Arthrex PRP (3 patients, Result: 56% increase in density after 6 months with one treatment)
- Activated Regen PRP (3 patients, Result: 23% decrease in density after 6 months with one treatment)

So all patients did very well except the three guys that got Regen, for unknown reasons. Random chance or Regen sucks.

 

[IdealForehead]

Why are you trying VEGF? How?

It's recently been demonstrated to be stimulated in white adipose fat by fasting, a paper I read speculated that it may be the reason that intermittent fasting works -- it converts white fat to brown fat via VEGF.

She's talking about using this pre-prepared Korean mesotherapy solution on herself which includes VEGF in its composition:

https://www.agf39.com/agf39

VEGF mediates angiogenesis to feed hair growth (see here). VEGF is one of the key ingredients in Histogen HSC also (see here).

VEGF is also considered one of the most important growth factors in PRP along with several others (see here).

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

She's talking about using this pre-prepared Korean mesotherapy solution on herself which includes VEGF in its composition:

https://www.agf39.com/agf39

VEGF mediates angiogenesis to feed hair growth (see here). VEGF is one of the key ingredients in Histogen HSC also (see here).

VEGF is also considered one of the most important growth factors in PRP along with several others (see here).

Another motivational factor for me to start intermittent fasting again, great, thank you. I'll add in cold showers this time, or at least add it to the top of my head.

I'm surprised to see that you're enthusiastic about PRP and laser by the way, they're widely considered fraudulent scams on here.

 

[IdealForehead]

Another motivational factor for me to start intermittent fasting again, great, thank you. I'll add in cold showers this time, or at least add it to the top of my head.

I'm surprised to see that you're enthusiastic about PRP and laser by the way, they're widely considered fraudulent scams on here.

There are a fair number of studies PRP for hair growth stimulation, so I think it is fair that I base my opinion on the consensus of that body of evidence, which is summarized freely here as:

Twelve studies conducted from 2011 to 2017 were evaluated and summarized by study characteristics, mode of preparation, and treatment protocols. A total of 295 subjects were given PRP or control treatment in these studies, and evaluated for terminal hair density, hair quality, anagen/telogen hair ratio, keratinocyte proliferation, blood vessel density, etc. Some studies also provided subject self-assessment reports. Most of the studies reviewed showed effectiveness of PRP in increasing terminal hair density/diameter. Additional investigations are needed to determine the optimal treatment regimen for high efficacy of PRP in Androgenetic Alopecia.
​

Only 2 out of the 12 studies they review didn't show statistically significant growth response from PRP. The other 10 showed good results.

All the studies I have read for PRP have shown somewhere between a 10% and 30% hair density boost. But as Georgie pointed out and the summary above states, not all PRP is the same. If we believe the study I posted, things like calcium activation (or not) and even different brands of injection preparation kits can lead to different results.

Laser I'm ambivalent about. Again, there are lots of studies and some good science showing it works. But it has to be restricted within a very narrow dose range to be effective. Too much laser inhibits hair growth. Too little is not enough. So I am often hesitant to even use my own lasers I have rigged up from some DIY kits I bought on ebay. I never know what the "right amount" is. Too potentially frustrating.

 

[Georgie]

Why are you trying VEGF? How?

It's recently been demonstrated to be stimulated in white adipose fat by fasting, a paper I read speculated that it may be the reason that intermittent fasting works -- it converts white fat to brown fat via VEGF.

Like hell I’ll ever be fasting mate.
I used to be anorexic. Very dangerous territory.
It comes in he Agf-39 formula anyway

 

[Georgie]

The full article is here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5343942/

They included very few pictures, as journals have limited space and pictures are not as good scientific or statistical evidence as hair counts. But there are a few pictures in there.

Eg. Both of these guys were from the Plain Biomed CPunT brand PRP trial arm:

View attachment 86221

View attachment 86222

Not a "cure" but pretty damn good I think for only 3 injections and only 3 months time. These guys weren't even on any finasteride/dutasteride/minoxidil during the PRP or for 1 year prior. So this was pure PRP result.

And to review, again, I misread the numbers the first time. The correct results were:

- Plain Biomed CPunT PRP (18 patients, Result: 31% increase in density after 12 weeks with 3 monthly treatments)
- Activated Arthrex PRP (3 patients, Result: 56% increase in density after 6 months with one treatment)
- Activated Regen PRP (3 patients, Result: 23% decrease in density after 6 months with one treatment)

So all patients did very well except the three guys that got Regen, for unknown reasons. Random chance or Regen sucks.

Sadly I can find nowhere that does Activated Arthrex prp here in Brisbane or he GC.

 

[IdealForehead]

Sadly I can find nowhere that does Activated Arthrex prp here in Brisbane or he GC.

Oh well. FYI Arthrex is also known as Angel Arthrex. But like I said, I don't know how critical all these distinctions really are. I don't think anyone does. PRP is still a relatively new and experimental field. Those differences in that study between Arthrex and Regen could have been random chance for all we know with only 3 patients in each group.

If you look at the total review of the evidence though (full text review here) which didn't include the study already reviewed now above in detail, 10/12 PRP studies showed significant growth results, and only 2 studies showed no statistically significant results.

The preparation techniques used in these 12 studies varied considerably:

Most used some type of activator (calcium gluconate being most popular). Four studies didn't activate at all. Most performed single or double spin methods. (These are explained here if anyone wants to read it...)

The last two in the table were the only ones that didn't show significant increases in growth.

Probably there is an "best" approach to PRP. Probably there is a best type of brand and best type of activator and best interval of injection, etc. But I don't think anyone really could possibly know for sure exactly what that is at this moment in time.

If the Biomed vs. Regen vs. Arthrex study could have split up its patient population more evenly so we could have had more patients in the Regen and Arthrex arms it would have given better indications.

All we can say for sure is in every study published so far except 2, PRP, however it's been done, has worked pretty well at stimulating hair growth. Sometimes it's done very well. That doesn't make it easy for picking a clinic or approach, especially when it costs so much, but that's the best I think anyone can say. Probably any PRP will be good. And it's perhaps probably also best if it's calcium activated.

Here's what the article on spin methods had to say:

To conclude, numerous preparation devices are available, each with a peculiar technical characteristic (disparity of tubes, centrifugation force, separator gels), cumulatively affecting the amount and the kinetics of the release of growth factors, but their clinical significance and therapeutic implication in various indications of dermatology is yet to be ascertained.

However, till then, the arbitrary target of platelet concentration of 4–7-fold platelet concentration in whole blood, prevails for therapeutic application in the field of hair restoration. To prepare the same, a minimum of 25–30 ml of venous blood needs to be withdrawn. For a practicing trichologist, one must always check for the platelet concentration on each patient at every particular treatment session.
​

 

[IdealForehead]

I have recently discovered that a clinic on the Gold Coast here does adipose stem cell treatment. That’s probably it for me if this fails. I’ve not many options left and no time to waste. The top of my head is see-through in areas now.

You mentioning adipose tissue gives me another ideas/theory for your hair, though as usual I'm just brainstorming.

If you have not read it already, you may wish to review my thread on galeal tension and how it mediates androgen sensitivity as well as subcutaneous fat atrophy, which both contribute to feedback loops that destroy hair follicles:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ttern-balding-androgens-are-secondary.113256/

This theory helps explain how the Norwood/Ludwig patterns are created during development, how the forces that create them continue to contribute to hair loss as we age, and how mechanisms to reduce galeal tension like scalp muscle Botox are effective in stopping hair loss and stimulating regrowth.

You have at times had exceptionally high muscle tone and low fat mass for a woman. Even now that is true. This might conceivably involve both increased muscularity of your scalp muscles and less fat cushioning for your follicles, both of which could be increase mechanical stress on your hair follicles and thus damage and loss.

Again cost will be a potential issue unless your parents might help, but scalp Botox with the protocol described here in that thread would be something very worth exploring if you are continuing to try anything to stop the loss. It worked as well as finasteride in the study it was tested in for male pattern loss, so it is no joke of a therapy, but it works through a completely different mechanism than you have tried so far. And given your muscularity and typically low body fat, maybe this approach will be more helpful for you in particular.

If you are thinning primarily on top, it suggests you are in fact following a Ludwig pattern (not autoimmune), but if you haven't responded to anti-androgens, maybe mechanical therapy like Botox might be more effective.

 

[champpy]

The full article is here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5343942/

They included very few pictures, as journals have limited space and pictures are not as good scientific or statistical evidence as hair counts. But there are a few pictures in there.

Eg. Both of these guys were from the Plain Biomed CPunT brand PRP trial arm:

View attachment 86221

View attachment 86222

Not a "cure" but pretty damn good I think for only 3 injections and only 3 months time. These guys weren't even on any finasteride/dutasteride/minoxidil during the PRP or for 1 year prior. So this was pure PRP result.

And to review, again, I misread the numbers the first time. The correct results were:

- Plain Biomed CPunT PRP (18 patients, Result: 31% increase in density after 12 weeks with 3 monthly treatments)
- Activated Arthrex PRP (3 patients, Result: 56% increase in density after 6 months with one treatment)
- Activated Regen PRP (3 patients, Result: 23% decrease in density after 6 months with one treatment)

So all patients did very well except the three guys that got Regen, for unknown reasons. Random chance or Regen sucks.

Thanks for the info!. Im skeptical of prp as ive had it done a few years back and it didnt help at all, but it wasnt this method you described. If these pics are legit then this is impressive.
But then again, the PDO threading pics were impressive as hell and i had that done too and got no regrowth from that either.

 

[Georgie]

You mentioning adipose tissue gives me another ideas/theory for your hair, though as usual I'm just brainstorming.

If you have not read it already, you may wish to review my thread on galeal tension and how it mediates androgen sensitivity as well as subcutaneous fat atrophy, which both contribute to feedback loops that destroy hair follicles:

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ttern-balding-androgens-are-secondary.113256/

This theory helps explain how the Norwood/Ludwig patterns are created during development, how the forces that create them continue to contribute to hair loss as we age, and how mechanisms to reduce galeal tension like scalp muscle Botox are effective in stopping hair loss and stimulating regrowth.

You have at times had exceptionally high muscle tone and low fat mass for a woman. Even now that is true. This might conceivably involve both increased muscularity of your scalp muscles and less fat cushioning for your follicles, both of which could be increase mechanical stress on your hair follicles and thus damage and loss.

Again cost will be a potential issue unless your parents might help, but scalp Botox with the protocol described here in that thread would be something very worth exploring if you are continuing to try anything to stop the loss. It worked as well as finasteride in the study it was tested in for male pattern loss, so it is no joke of a therapy, but it works through a completely different mechanism than you have tried so far. And given your muscularity and typically low body fat, maybe this approach will be more helpful for you in particular.

If you are thinning primarily on top, it suggests you are in fact following a Ludwig pattern (not autoimmune), but if you haven't responded to anti-androgens, maybe mechanical therapy like Botox might be more effective.

Indeed one of the worst areas for me is the top of my head, particularly the area just behind the forelock. I mean, it’s definitely something to consider. I’ve actially thought about Botox generally for my skin given how badly it’s been rooted by hormones and minoxidil. One thing I would like I mention about treatments though:
I am finding more and more the regrowth af my hairline is less and less miniturised. It’s thinning for sure, but the regrowth isn’t as densely vellus as before. I try not to do this often because I was developing a trichotillimania-like habit out of it, but I will pluck a few really short hairs out of the top of my head to see what my regrowth on top looks like, and I have noticed that they are darkening more and more also. Whilst I am still losing ground overall though it means little.

Thanks again for your insights into alternative treatments. I’ll have a look. Fun bit of Sunday reading haha.

 

[IdealForehead]

Indeed one of the worst areas for me is the top of my head, particularly the area just behind the forelock. I mean, it’s definitely something to consider. I’ve actially thought about Botox generally for my skin given how badly it’s been rooted by hormones and minoxidil. One thing I would like I mention about treatments though:
I am finding more and more the regrowth af my hairline is less and less miniturised. It’s thinning for sure, but the regrowth isn’t as densely vellus as before. I try not to do this often because I was developing a trichotillimania-like habit out of it, but I will pluck a few really short hairs out of the top of my head to see what my regrowth on top looks like, and I have noticed that they are darkening more and more also. Whilst I am still losing ground overall though it means little.

Thanks again for your insights into alternative treatments. I’ll have a look. Fun bit of Sunday reading haha.

No problem. I still hope we can find you an answer. You've certainly tried as hard as anyone on this site.

What you say about your hairline is very encouraging. You know my primary belief has been your hair loss is menopause related and due to the unbalanced ER-alpha/beta balance you had from estrone and the pill. It's only been a few weeks since you changed your pills. You've already had the androgen angle covered very well for months. Maybe in a few months now with the estrogen pieces in place, you'll see more and more improve. Fingers crossed.

Adding therapies like Botox or PRP would only likely boost success further.

 

[Georgie]

No problem. I still hope we can find you an answer. You've certainly tried as hard as anyone on this site.

What you say about your hairline is very encouraging. You know my primary belief has been your hair loss is menopause related and due to the unbalanced ER-alpha/beta balance you had from estrone and the pill. It's only been a few weeks since you changed your pills. You've already had the androgen angle covered very well for months. Maybe in a few months now with the estrogen pieces in place, you'll see more and more improve. Fingers crossed.

Adding therapies like Botox or PRP would only likely boost success further.

For sure. My aim at this point is really to stop the loss. If I can at least stabilise, I could probably get away with hair extensions and some tricky styling to cover th scalpy bits on top, and I couldn’t finally feel confident because I know most guys and girls don’t give a toss about someone they’re dating having extensions. It would give me my life back. I just need to make this sh*t stop and ideally get off minoxidil, which I fully believe is the cause of the extreme shedding. I might get a nice smooth forehead out of it too.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Like hell I’ll ever be fasting mate.
I used to be anorexic. Very dangerous territory.

Oh right I forgot about that, sorry.

Anorexia is not an issue for me, I love indulging in food way too much. I'm at the other end of that spectrum where I have to work hard to stop myself from eating everything.

ETA: Though adderall seems to be having an effect. It's a very strong appetite suppressant which I noticed without first looking up the side effects. Afterwards, I read that it can trigger anorexia, which makes sense.

 

[anton7]

I've had about 10 PRP treatments in total. The first one was with calcium and light activated PRP using the Angel machine. It did strengthen the hair for a few weeks but then it lost its effect. It was very expensive to continue with it.

Then I found a much cheaper clinic in Sydney and I bought a package and started with 4 treatments within 2 months and then 1 every 4 weeks or so. This was inactivated PRP. There was some improvement but nothing drastic. Again some strengthening of the hair, more 'life' and shine to it.

I stopped about a year ago, but I might do another couple of sessions when they do a special again. Doing ok with current regimen so I might add PRP to give it a boost.

One thing to keep in mind, being on 5ASA medication reduces the effect of PRP as these medications (Sulfasalazine, Pentasa, Salofalk) reduce the levels of growth factors in the blood. This may have been a reason for my average results as I did not know this at the time. After this I would stop 5ASAs 5 days before PRP to allow the blood levels to recover.

One thing that boosts growth factors in the blood is squats. Doing some say 30 minutes before your blood is drawn will do the trick. I was doing body weight squats before going to the clinic!

I got decent results a few years ago from a US based growth factor serum, A&G skin solutions or something. I'm pretty sure if I dermarolled before applying the results would have been even better.

If you can get a serum with standardised levels of growth factors at a reasonable price, it's the best way to do it in my opinion, as with PRP there's many factors that can affect your blood on the day of treatment like medication, a virus, nutrition days leading to PRP etc. Also if self administering the growth factors go through the PRP papers to find the depth of injection. From memory between 0.5-1mm. Get some numbing cream to rub on your head because it'll hurt.