Head & Shoulders

[Old Baldy]

No Cassin, I don't think it is harmful, just not as beneficial.

Multi-vitamins have always balanced copper with zinc because of their reactions to each other.

The zinc shampoos could probably be used now and then without any real problems. They just don't appear to be as good for skin health as the copper formulations.

The zinc shampoos do reduce inflammation. So they're not useless. Just not as good as copper solutions IMHO. If they were, Procyte would have been zinc based. (As you know.)

Copper - yes. A little bit of zinc now and then - why not.

 

[misterium]

1% zinc

.. According to the reviews on drugstore.com people have used it for years, and it's "mild enough for daily use".

I've used it in the past, I just can't remember it was years ago.

Anyhow, Folligen irritates my scalp... so now I only spray it on my face/torso after a shower. Emu oil is my only topical (unless you count nizoral).

I figure I will try out that H&S Dry Scalp Formula.. said to contain a conditioner already, and relieve itch associated with dry scalp (which finasteride is causing me).. This *may* help out a bit.. and if things stabalize, I can just resort back to 3x weekly nizoral and drop the H&S.. since nizoral seems to be the prefered choice regardless of all these studies.

 

[Old Baldy]

IWant: Dilute the folligen 50-50 with distilled water. It DEFINITELY is storng stuff. You have to get used to it. Give it time. Like I said it is STRONG stuff.

My scalp is definitely healthier. I wish I had know of folligen before I got an hair transplant. I also wish I had given modern day topicals a chance. I just didn't know about them. Oh well, an idiot is born every second, I was one of them.

 

[misterium]

Hi OldB,

Actually I've been using the spray for months now, not nightly but randomly.. just depends on how I felt.

I've done the dillution thing and continue to re-add bottled water when the Folligen gets low.

I'm just not seeing much help from it as far as my itchiness goes!

 

[Old Baldy]

Da** IWant. Bummer. I use it every night and it has improved my scalp health after getting my hair transplant. It doesn't itch or burn, and it changed those problems quicker than mother nature would have IMHO.

You know, it always has been a benefit to surgery patients. That's it's foundation.

Maybe since, you didn't have any surgery, it doesn't help as well. That's something to ponder isn't it?!

My benefits may just be from the surgery. Thanks for the info.

But you know, I always had a little "itch" for all those years I was balding. I was just too stupid to check these things out. (I did start going bald LONG before the internet though. LOL!)

 

[Temples]

Cassin, I appreciate your take but that statement from Dr. Pickart doesn't do much for me. The only part that relates to H & S is the mention of 20% pyrithione zinc, and even then he says it promotes regrowth. I've been using H & S every day along with Tricomin and have experienced ZERO irritation. In fact, my scalp has never been better.

As for copper peptides being "better", I don't know. I can tell you that from personal experience, I've been on Tricomin for 5 months + finasteride & nizoral for 3-4 and haven't regrown anything. I've never heard of anyone on this forum having regrowth success unless they're using it with minoxidil as well. I'm starting to seriously doubt the regrowth abilities of copper peptides.

The other studies posted in this thread show that PTZ slightly outperforms ketoconazole. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I feel that it is an important part of my regimen.

However, I'm still going to contact Dr. Lee, and eagerly await the takes of the other vets.

Deaner> I'm using the exact same flavor.

 

[Cassin]

I wouldn't expect to regrow much hair from CP's at all if you have male pattern baldness.

What you need to expect from CP's is improved scalp health to repair some of the damage we do by applying all of these topicals and harsh shampoos. It's a nice add-on to help the other parts of a regimen work a little better. No one should expect more than that.

 

[Brasileirao]

I love me some Chuck. Everything he has done is gold except for his latest book, but we all have bad days I guess. How have you missed my signature for so long? I have been putting Chuck quotes there or a year!

I really hadnt been paying attention to these quotes on the bottom until Blue started to place movie quotes. Now every time I come on this site I try to at least glance at them. I should of caught those damn quotes! Any who, Fight Club and Lullaby were two of my favorite, and I will check out Ayn Rand on your word.

As far as Hunter goes, who could hate Fear and Loathing... but I see your point on him. He has become a little tooooo "political" in my view. But his old school stuff is pretty bad ***.

Aight main....yesterday I missed everyone on chat....got there a little late!

Over and Out!
Tony M

 

[Cassin]

I don't hate him really but some of his new stuff.... I would read 8 pages and I was like "WTF did I just read?!?!? That made no sense!" His old stuff is good, but I think the guy fried a few too many brain cells to be relevant today.

Did you know he writes for ESPN.com now?

My favorite Chuck books so far have been Choke and Diary. Survivor was great too, an entire junk yard of p**rn, vibrators & Astroglide, doesn't get any more strange than that.

Kep one thing in mind about Ayn Rand, it's not funny at all like Chuck, pretty serious in a "Soul searching... self discovery way" All of the jazz, but good.

 

[Brasileirao]

I read his stuff on ESPN whenever I get the chance I agree with you on his brain cells being fried a little too many times. His new stuff isnt that bad, still makes for a good read. My only problem is how political he has gotten, but to each his own.

On Chuck, Diary was pretty bad ***! A chilling book to say the least...

I will go to my near by Barnes and Nobles or Borders and browse through some of Ayn Rand's stuff. May be a good change of pace. Ill keep you posted my Friend....

Do you post on Chucks Forum?

Tony

 

[Cassin]

Do you post on Chucks Forum?

No but I have considered signing up for The Cult, just too publicly participate in the workshops only. The rest of the forums are junk really. I am not so sure why people find the need to debate his sexuality so much. Stuff like that.

Unlike my horrible grammer and sentance structer here since this is about male pattern baldness and not writing , I have taken a lot of time and effort and done many of the workshops they have posted on that site. I have just never shared them.

I may do it soon though and I will sign up under my real name. Just to get something up there and out of my system.

And you? If you do, PM me your name so I can check out your work.

Sorry for the threadjack Temples.

 

[misterium]

Well I went and purchased a bottle of H&S 'Dry Scalp Care' version shampoo today.

I just took a shower and used it.. here's what I think about it:

- first attempt, lather was not good enough (because of Brylcreem in my hair).

- second attempt, lathered a bit better.. but not enough.

- third attempt, better lather.. i let it sit for about 3 minutes, and rinsed.. i did not follow with a conditioner because i want to see how this goes by itself.

Hope it stops the itch spots at the crown/vertex... (i think finasteride is causing this, didn't have this problem before taking finasteride)

 

[Temples]

Good luck with the Dry Scalp Care, IwantMyhair. I think I'm going to get the "Extra Fullness" poo and conditioner next.

Cassin, I agree that copper peptides are great for skin and scalp care. However, I don't know if I can continue to afford Tricomin if it isn't going to give me any regrowth. I'm aware of Folligen, but I don't want my head stained green. American Crew sounds like a good alternative but I may just make the switch to Xandrox. My schedule is so hectic right now that I need a topical that regrows hair if I'm going to use it.

Proxiphen sounds kind of interesting since it combines a lot of stuff. However, I think I read an interview on this site w/ Dr. Lee where he mentioned mixing spironolactone and minoxidil in the same solution is a bad idea.
I'm cool with the threadjacking. It keeps this thread up at the top where it belongs. :agree:

 

[Brasileirao]

Do you post on Chucks Forum?

No but I have considered signing up for The Cult, just too publicly participate in the workshops only. The rest of the forums are junk really. I am not so sure why people find the need to debate his sexuality so much. Stuff like that.

Unlike my horrible grammer and sentance structer here since this is about male pattern baldness and not writing , I have taken a lot of time and effort and done many of the workshops they have posted on that site. I have just never shared them.

I may do it soon though and I will sign up under my real name. Just to get something up there and out of my system.

And you? If you do, PM me your name so I can check out your work.

Sorry for the threadjack Temples.

Yo! my user name is Fucko a name I share with a cousin of mine who is another HUGE Chuck fan. He was the one who actually got me into reading his stuff.

 

[mvpsoft]

I'm aware of Folligen, but I don't want my head stained green.

I had similar concerns but decided to switch to Folligen anyway because it is much stronger and cheaper. Pickart's research and clinical data has shown that up to a point, stronger copper peptides are better for the skin. Anyway, in my case, there has been no green staining, and my hair is fairly light. I also have heard that if you do get green staining, a solution of 1/4 lemon juice and 3/4 water takes the stain right out of your hair.

 

[misterium]

So I shaved my head today with a #2 attachment.. looks alright yah

Felt like 'starting fresh'.. and maybe my crown/vertex thinning will grow back thicker.

Makes it easier to lather my H&S now, though. :wink:

 

[viperfish]

Good luck with the Dry Scalp Care, IwantMyhair. I think I'm going to get the "Extra Fullness" poo and conditioner next.

Cassin, I agree that copper peptides are great for skin and scalp care. However, I don't know if I can continue to afford Tricomin if it isn't going to give me any regrowth. I'm aware of Folligen, but I don't want my head stained green. American Crew sounds like a good alternative but I may just make the switch to Xandrox. My schedule is so hectic right now that I need a topical that regrows hair if I'm going to use it.

Proxiphen sounds kind of interesting since it combines a lot of stuff. However, I think I read an interview on this site w/ Dr. Lee where he mentioned mixing spironolactone and minoxidil in the same solution is a bad idea.
I'm cool with the threadjacking. It keeps this thread up at the top where it belongs. :agree:

The head and shoulders extra fullness shampoo is great. Give it a go. I like it alot.

 

[misterium]

Well I went with the Dry Scalp Care formula because it says "Helps stop itch" on the front.. and that's what I need right now, to get rid of my random itch spots on crown/vertex

 

[Temples]

Woo-hoo! Rock 'n' Roll, baby! Just got my response back from Dr. Lee:

Dear Dr. Lee,

I have a few questions regarding the use of 1%
pyrithione zinc shampoo.

I have read several studies that show users of 1%
pyrithione zinc shampoo had a slightly higher
percentage of hairs in the anagen phase than those
using ketoconazole shampoo.

My question is, would it be beneficial to alternate
pyrithione zinc and ketoconazole? For example, using
ketoconazole 2-3 days a week and using pyrithione zinc
on the other days.

"That's a good idea.  Ketoconazole and pyrithione zinc work in different ways to treat male pattern baldness, so using both shampoos should have additive benefits.  Besides, the 2% ketoconazole shampoo shouldn't be used on a daily basis anyway."

Also, what is your opinion on using pyrithione zinc
while using minoxidil or Xandrox, and can the rotation
of pyrithione zinc and ketoconazole help relieve the
itching sometimes associated with finasteride use?

"Although the study showed "No advantage was seen in using both the 5% minoxidil topical solution and the 1% pyrithione zinc shampoo", there is no contraindication to the concomitant use of pyrithione zinc and minoxidil/Xandrox.  It's important to note that "The benefit of the 1% pyrithione zinc shampoo used alone tended (P < 0·1) to be apparent only to the investigator."

As for 'itching associated with finasteride use', it's a rather a rare event and is associated with its side effect rather than being a direct effect of finasteride.  You may have some relief of the itching from the use of a pyrithione zinc shampoo.

 
I have provided some links below:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/ ... 435.x/abs/

http://www.dermatologytimes.com/dermato ... p?id=18433
 
Thanks.  They're very interesting and credible reports.

Richard Lee, M.D.

So it looks like we've been on to something after all. I give a special thanks to Old Baldy and Distressed for posting the links to those studies.

 

[misterium]

Good good..

So now I have a full-time shampoo regimine for rotation.

nizoral 1% 2x weekly, and H&S 3x weekly, and a mild baby shampoo the other days.



I suppose the side-effects from finasteride that he was refering to, would be dry scalp/inflamation? .. those side-effects could lead to itching.. which is what I have!