How credible is Propeciahelp.com?

[TheEscapist]

You do realize that your appeal to authority is complete bull, right? I'll hold you to these words. Except for that 9.9999998 times out of 10. We all know which orifice that came out of.

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You need to provide a source for your silly claims. Especially the one where I was allegedly wrong.

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What the Hell? My appeal to authority? Did you even read what I said? Its an appeal to factual evidence and common sense, you belligerent moron. It is PROVEN, that everything that is "all in your head" directly effects your body on a PHYSICAL, RECORDABLE LEVEL. There is NO conspiracy making this FACT up. If there were, you posting on a hair loss forum would not be the only one to believe so.

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What would you can as an effect of finasteride? If you measure the DHT drop, then 5 mg is like 1,1 times stronger than 1 mg. If you look at prostate involution, then two times stronger. But nowhere can you see it do something for 5 times the strength.

I agree that 5 mg would not be 5 times the strength. They lowered the dosage to 1mg because it was the smallest amount that would still produce the desired affects on your hair.
I always think back to the fact that some rain forest tree frogs have a secreted poison that is potent enough to kill you in minutes if you merely touch it. People say "its just 1 mg!" but, if there are such potent chemicals in the world that could kill you on contact, then potency is clearly not an issue to be linked to the amount of some such chemicals.

 

[TheEscapist]

I edited incorrectly and mixed up appeal to authority sentence; it was directed at qunatam cat. Wrt your reference to pregant women, you were committing the false analogy fallacy. There is zero evidence that placebo or "all in your head" is responsible for the documented persistent finasteride/dutasteride sides. these drugs have been PROVEN to alter gene expression. Altered expression of Androgen responsibve genes is not "all in your head" but a PHYSICAL, RECORDABLE effect of 5 ar inhibition

It would appear there is also a startling lack of evidence proving that many of the persisting side effects are fact. Just a whole lot of inconclusive and biased studies. Or so it seems.
I would like to see that study though, on gene expression. If you could link it I'd be grateful. I would love to understand how these side effects could possibly occur, and why they only occur for a handful of people.

 

[TheEscapist]

We sought preclinical data on the cellular and molecular effects of dutasteride in androgen-responsive, human prostate cancer (PCa) cells to better understand the mechanisms of action of 5 alpha-reductase inhibition in these cells. We used the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP, which exhibits most features of PCa cells including androgen responsiveness. Our findings show that dutasteride kills PCa cells in vitro; it dramatically reduced viability and proliferation and disrupted genes and cellular pathways involved in metabolic, cell cycle, and apoptotic responses besides those expected in androgen-signaling pathways. Microchip gene array expression analysis revealed activation of genes in the FasL/tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) apoptotic and cell-survival pathways, correlating with the growth and survival effects in the LNCaP cells. Real-time polymerase chain reaction confirmed expression level changes seen by microarray analysis of candidate genes such as PLA2G2A, CDK8, CASP7, MDK, and NKX3.1. Collectively, our findings delineate the cellular and molecular effects of dutasteride in androgen-responsive PCa cells in vitro and may lead to its better therapeutic and chemopreventive use in PCa.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15477368

That looks to be centered on Dutasteride, is it not? I thought we were discussing Finasteride?

 

[TheEscapist]

Dutasteride blocks 3 types of 5 Alpha-Reductase, whereas finasteride blocks primarily Type II and minorly Type I. A study for one likely cannot be used to determine the effects of the other, as far as good science goes.

 

[Fanjeera]

Umm... those are cancer cells lol.

 

[TheEscapist]

The whole study seems irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I think its safe to say that Propeciahelp is a strongly biased site, which, though it may have been designed with the good intentions of getting help to those who need it, has become a breeding ground for fear/hate mongering without regard to whether or not there's scientific proof to the claims being made.

 

[LawOfThelema]

Yes I think that post finasteride syndrome is real in some individuals, but not in most. and there are ways around it. ask enden if you ever get it and need help.

 

[poorwife]

its credible...

Is what they are all hyperventilating and repeatedly posting about real? I fully believe there are side effects to messing with your hormones, but these people are regularly discussing hundreds of conditions, bodily disorders, sexual traumas, etc. that they all believe are linked to even as little as 1 week on Propecia.

None of them seem to believe that their symptoms are the result of psychosomatic-worrying. They're all balls to the wall "Propecia ruined my life".

Are their accusations and accounts valid? Truthful? Is there reality to what they're regularly freaking out about? Or is it a rabid riot of dramatic stories empowering dramatic stories to the point that everyone there is feeding each other's psychosomatic worries?

I'm sorry to be adding to this boys, but I can't keep quite any more. Husband went nuts on this stuff...14 month psychosis.
Off it 3 years now, but I think paranoid schizoprenia is the end result. (I want my husband back but he's not the same person since finasteride episode) He has now found GOD, can't say I blame him after the nightmare he went through. (funny thing is he didn't suffer on that drug as he was totally unaware and emotionally retarded - we suffered though - he hired a prostitue, had surgery done on his ears (i was blissfully unaware) can I emphasize, he's not the prostitute type and there was nothing wrong with his ears...sleeping in a field up the road in case the bad guys came to damage a machine, shooting rabbits from a window while the children were in the house, hoping I would think he shot himself apparently - I did. He had a list of people to get back at and I was top of that list he said... we used to be happy, this was bizzare and not normal - and all related to that bloody poison they call finasteride) He suffered when he stopped taking it alright, severe depression, remorse, he had emotions again) I minded him when he came right. He's gone all wrong again so I've left with the children. Teenager was harming himself thanks to daddy's "psychosis" End result, marraige destroyed, children traumatised, wife depressed, husband all happy and enjoying life and making life hell for everyone else. Cheers finasteride. This all began with that drug, the timing makes sense. Problem is it hasn't gone away. There is muscle twitching still in shoulder, around the eyes looks different. I know my husband and this person is not him. I believe finasteride caused some sort of paranoid schizoprenia in my husband and it breaks my heart every day and it has not gone away. His symptoms are not the result of psychosomatic worrying....neither are mine. I saw him change before my eyes on this stuff, I saw him when he stopped taking it, and I see him now. There is a direct correlation with his behaviour and that drug. It's poison. (at least it was for him)

btw.... women love bald men be content with what you have and don't concern yourself with hairloss. If she's after you for your hair, you can do better for yourself.

 

[swingline747]

My T Levels are significantly lower than they were before I went on Propecia. And they've stayed low ever since. This has however resulted in zero further hair loss, in the 8 years since I stopped. I used to hover around 800 total T and now I hover around 360 total T. Which is of course the testosterone level of an 80 year old man. However I had so many adverse events while on it, that I was "one of the guys" who should have quit taking it. And i mean "one" because every single person I know who takes it has zero problem. We're talking a full 2 years of ongoing testicle ache, semen volume dysfunction, loss of sensitivity, etc. The Brain Fog and all that other jazz they go on about is simply a side effect of lowered Testosterone and DHT.

I don't know a single person who took Propecia, saw side effects, immediately stopped, and had any problems afterwards. That's why i really don't have any pity for these guys. I think they're not being rational or logical, and scaring people away from a treatment that really works, and rarely causes problems. To me that's a bad thing. Its human nature to go ape sh*t and demonize something from top to bottom like they're doing, but it doesn't cater to logic or rational thought.

The simple fact is if you're considering taking Propeca, just don't be a dumb*ss and ignore side effects if you get them. If you don't get them, you'll be fine. Pretty basic common sense logic. There's nobody out there who took it, had no side effects, and woke up one morning with a forever limp penis. That simply doesn't happen.

As for me? All I have to do is embark on some Hormone Replacement Therapy. I've already successfully used Androgel and it works great. Everything goes back to normal. But when I do that, my hair starts falling out again. So I've managed my situation without it just fine, and still have all my hair.

You know I wondered about this.
I myself had/have the same issues and I was wondering if my change in hormone levels will affect/slow my hair loss.
You sound like me incarnate. I am hovering around the same T levels as you. I toggle up and down though.

One thing I will say is I just saw a urologist again and he said be really careful thinking you have low T because your levels fluctuate constantly for ANY reason and what may seem like low T could just be a change.

I myself am steering away from more hormone changes, and pretty much stabilize myself through my own regiment of exercise, vitamins and healthy eating.

When you get your levels checked make sure you are doing it FIRST thing in the morning when they are at peak and non altered from daily stress and activity.

As for prophelp.com... its as reliable and genuine as people. Are people reliable and genuine?

 

[Notcoolanymore]

I believe there are guys that have taken finasteride and have gotten sides. I also believe there are guys that have had issues after taking finasteride and later decided to quit. I think more research needs to be done to figure out what exactly is going on.

The problem with propeciahelp is that although it has a good amount of useful information, it is also filled with irrational nonsense like the post above. I could buy into all the ED claims, but the "finasteride turned me into a psycho" crowd just diminish much of propeciahelp's credibility, which was minimal to begin with.

 

[Dark Link]

Yes some of these guys are really dealing with bad side effects. There is some degree of credibility with post finasteride syndrome and we will certainly find out more over the course of this year.

There are also a number of other people fueling the propeciahelp fire though. Trolls, shills for other hair loss products, and hypochondriacs. I dare some of you to go read through their posts and see how outrageous some of their claims are. In fact an award goes out to whomever can find the most ridiculous post on their forums.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

In fact an award goes out to whomever can find the most ridiculous post on their forums.

Good luck with that. I am sure there are thousands to choose from.

 

[Dark Link]

One of my favorites from propeciahelp - User theeffects
"I had this bizarre plaque on all of my teeth while I was on propecia. Brushing sort of helped but it came back almost instantly. It was uncomfortable & one of the reasons I stopped. I havent been to a dentist to check anything out though. It's gone now that I stopped - took 2-3 weeks."

 

[poorwife]

Hey Dark Link, love the post about the tooth plaque.
Funny thing is, I read my own post and yes, I agree it's nuts... but it is honest. What were the odds? Pity it wasn't the lotto. You really don't believe that finasteride can be dangerous? My husband did have to attend a psychiatrist after it, that doctor told us that he was currently seeing a patient with narcolepsy (probably spelt wrong) after she got a jab for swine flu... There were a few other cases he was looking into the same. Every one here was getting a swine flu jab at the time, it was reccommended by health professionals nationally. She was destroyed after it while everyone else didn't appear to have any side effects from it. It was safe we were all told. I did ask him, can a drug case psychosis, could this possibly be due to the finasteride he was on - I couldn't believe it myslef at the time - and he told me that in his experience, it was possible. So there you go. Why did it affect him and doesn't affect others? Do you not think there are too many men with the same complaint. Definitely requires further research. I rang a GP here at the time in bits and so upset and was told, "welcome to the world of propecia users" Not a quak or some gob****e prone to delirium..this was a professional recognised GP. This problem is very real and more common than I imagined.

 

[Propecia-mental health]

Hello, there is recent studies on propecia and depression. Therefore, what can be said about psychosis given it affects the brain hormones?!

Can anyone share experience please.


I'm sorry to be adding to this boys, but I can't keep quite any more. Husband went nuts on this stuff...14 month psychosis.
Off it 3 years now, but I think paranoid schizoprenia is the end result. (I want my husband back but he's not the same person since finasteride episode) He has now found GOD, can't say I blame him after the nightmare he went through. (funny thing is he didn't suffer on that drug as he was totally unaware and emotionally retarded - we suffered though - he hired a prostitue, had surgery done on his ears (i was blissfully unaware) can I emphasize, he's not the prostitute type and there was nothing wrong with his ears...sleeping in a field up the road in case the bad guys came to damage a machine, shooting rabbits from a window while the children were in the house, hoping I would think he shot himself apparently - I did. He had a list of people to get back at and I was top of that list he said... we used to be happy, this was bizzare and not normal - and all related to that bloody poison they call finasteride) He suffered when he stopped taking it alright, severe depression, remorse, he had emotions again) I minded him when he came right. He's gone all wrong again so I've left with the children. Teenager was harming himself thanks to daddy's "psychosis" End result, marraige destroyed, children traumatised, wife depressed, husband all happy and enjoying life and making life hell for everyone else. Cheers finasteride. This all began with that drug, the timing makes sense. Problem is it hasn't gone away. There is muscle twitching still in shoulder, around the eyes looks different. I know my husband and this person is not him. I believe finasteride caused some sort of paranoid schizoprenia in my husband and it breaks my heart every day and it has not gone away. His symptoms are not the result of psychosomatic worrying....neither are mine. I saw him change before my eyes on this stuff, I saw him when he stopped taking it, and I see him now. There is a direct correlation with his behaviour and that drug. It's poison. (at least it was for him)

btw.... women love bald men be content with what you have and don't concern yourself with hairloss. If she's after you for your hair, you can do better for yourself.

He

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I believe there are guys that have taken finasteride and have gotten sides. I also believe there are guys that have had issues after taking finasteride and later decided to quit. I think more research needs to be done to figure out what exactly is going on.

The problem with propeciahelp is that although it has a good amount of useful information, it is also filled with irrational nonsense like the post above. I could buy into all the ED claims, but the "finasteride turned me into a psycho" crowd just diminish much of propeciahelp's credibility, which was minimal to begin with.

There's no doubt that finasteride affects the brain.

 

[g.i joey]

its credible...




I'm sorry to be adding to this boys, but I can't keep quite any more. Husband went nuts on this stuff...14 month psychosis.
Off it 3 years now, but I think paranoid schizoprenia is the end result. (I want my husband back but he's not the same person since finasteride episode) He has now found GOD, can't say I blame him after the nightmare he went through. (funny thing is he didn't suffer on that drug as he was totally unaware and emotionally retarded - we suffered though - he hired a prostitue, had surgery done on his ears (i was blissfully unaware) can I emphasize, he's not the prostitute type and there was nothing wrong with his ears...sleeping in a field up the road in case the bad guys came to damage a machine, shooting rabbits from a window while the children were in the house, hoping I would think he shot himself apparently - I did. He had a list of people to get back at and I was top of that list he said... we used to be happy, this was bizzare and not normal - and all related to that bloody poison they call finasteride) He suffered when he stopped taking it alright, severe depression, remorse, he had emotions again) I minded him when he came right. He's gone all wrong again so I've left with the children. Teenager was harming himself thanks to daddy's "psychosis" End result, marraige destroyed, children traumatised, wife depressed, husband all happy and enjoying life and making life hell for everyone else. Cheers finasteride. This all began with that drug, the timing makes sense. Problem is it hasn't gone away. There is muscle twitching still in shoulder, around the eyes looks different. I know my husband and this person is not him. I believe finasteride caused some sort of paranoid schizoprenia in my husband and it breaks my heart every day and it has not gone away. His symptoms are not the result of psychosomatic worrying....neither are mine. I saw him change before my eyes on this stuff, I saw him when he stopped taking it, and I see him now. There is a direct correlation with his behaviour and that drug. It's poison. (at least it was for him)

btw.... women love bald men be content with what you have and don't concern yourself with hairloss. If she's after you for your hair, you can do better for yourself.

well he obviously held onto the fact that his hair was a big part of his life if he still wanted to take propecia while being married with children, settled down.

Being honest, im sure you could have had minor clues that this was a problem before he even took finasteride. I have family members who have been in this same situation, this is a result of depression. I have a cousin who thought people were coming to kill his mother, ended up choking her when she got worried and hid his guns from him. I remember this man 2-3 years ago, happiest guy you could've met, would've never had a clue he'd spiral into a deep depression years later.

My point is, there is no doubt in my mind that finasteride causes sides, my first attempt when i was really heavy, unhealthy and overweight caused some worrying sexual sides. BUT you cant go blame everything on finasteride, yes it could've added to his depression to the point where that drew the line, but eventually your husband would have went down a similar road.

 

[Mattias]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02255.x/abstract

How legit is this?

"finasteride: 94% developed low libido, 92% developed erectile dysfunction, 92% developed decreased arousal, and 69% developed problems with orgasm. "

 

[g.i joey]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02255.x/abstract

How legit is this?

"finasteride: 94% developed low libido, 92% developed erectile dysfunction, 92% developed decreased arousal, and 69% developed problems with orgasm. "

This was a study don't on only people who HAVE side effects.. Basically meaning if you don't have a finasteride side, you can't be included innthisnstudy

 

[cuprous]

I'm not going to say anyone's experience is false and messing with hormones may well cause issues, especially if you're younger.. But avodart sales were half a BILLION dollars in 2014. http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2014/11/03/patent-expiration/

Why do we not hear about lawsuits from people taking it for prostate issues? I know avodart is not the exact same drug as finasteride but they both crush DHT levels.

So either finasteride has some unknown side effect that we can't identify or DHT reduction specifically causes issues in people suffering from male pattern baldness.

Everything in life is risk/reward. ALL drugs, including aspirin, have risk profiles. I tend to agree with the other post that said if you try to "power through" finasteride side effects you're being foolish.

Personally if I were to try finasteride I would start with a single 1mg tab dissolved in a 10mg dropper of vodka and I'd take at most 0.1mg EOD for a while to see how I feel. Not just blow up all DHT in my body one single day out of the blue.

I honestly do feel for the bros suffering from side effects but as someone who has experienced anxiety and panic disorder I can tell you firsthand that the mind truly has a mind of its own. Once you become hyper-vigilant about something it's really hard to have a balanced life in any way.