How f*****g Retarded Is That We Have To Swallow Pills That Trannies Use To Save Our Hair
- Thread starter genetically_cursed
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Source for fina causing insulin resistance
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25460297
just google 5AR inhibition and insulin resistance. Theres a lot of work on 5AR and glucose metabolism. Theres no study proving a causal link between finasteride and insulin resistance, however there is a study that i dont have on hand of dutasteride inducing hepatic insulin resistance in rats, and i remember at least one other in men comparing fina to duta in glucose metabolism (duta was far far worse from memory, I think because of the inhibition of 5AR1 specifically)
Night
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I posted my latest hair photos here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...7-months-on-finasteride-nizoral.118270/unread
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That may be quite possibly the most useless abstract I’ve ever seen. Not only does it say nothing it uses very vague language at the same time. And in a crappy low impact journal too...
I’ve seen the avodart paper and I believe that avodart could increase risk of metabolic syndrome due to 5ar1 inhibition which is expressed in the liver. I have yet to see anything showing increased incidence of diabetes with propecia in anything from the fda trials to known complications in 5ar2 mutants.
In conciliation I think your assertion regarding a propecia and diabetes link is baseless
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I am sure one day people will look at finasteride the same way we look at smearing mercury on your balls for syphillis today.
Too bad I'll be dead by then.
Too bad I'll be dead by then.
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Don't know about this insulin resistance, but Merck clearly stated that it's recommended for people living with any kind of liver condition to inform your practician before using it.
https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/p/propecia/propecia_ppi.pdf
What should I tell my healthcare provider before taking PROPECIA?
Before taking PROPECIA, tell your healthcare provider if you:
• have any other medical conditions, including problems with your prostate or liver
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This drug is ridiculously safe for the majority of users and temporary risk of 2% side effects are largely linked only to one system of the body - sexual. This is in direct contrast to many drugs which truly affect more critical systems of the body (heart, liver, kidneys, cns). Not to mention the fact you can get it in 5mg form so 2 packs almost last you a year or if you take 0.5 mg it will last you 20 months (2 packs) with similar DHT suppression. How could it get easier without having a magic wand to maintain your hair? A cheap cure that takes a second to swallow, granted it doesn't work for a minority of people for various reasons but it's solid overall. Lots of men use it successfully and get on with their life.
"Smoking one package a day does not cause cancer. I have been smoking two packages a day for 30 years and I am still 100% fine".
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Old news. I know it may sound frightening to a non medic but if you closely analyse it or understand basic physiology/epidemiology we can largely dismiss it or realise it's up in the air/minor. The "scary stuff" is based on case reports and working hypotheses without consideration for what the clinical trials showed - which were adjusted for case and control and double blinded. And in those trials it was clear what the risk of temporary side effects was and what they were. After these trials you have phase 4 which involves collecting the results from the millions of men that have used the drug and to see if by some mistake, the efficacy and safety is not correlated to the trials. The drug has been shown to be safe unlike some out there which have led to serious sides. The scare mongering only helped fill the pockets of lawyers and also some people who didn't take it lost their hair.
Look up the 10 year trial which is the largest and most recent one for finasteride, the risk of sides was typically low and happened within the first year - there was no depression or gynaecomastia (though it can cause it). May be they were happy they kept their hair which is obviously a major source of depression especially on this forum so does it matter about the supposed marginal effect on neurosteroids? If you're worried about depression and anxiety on finasteride then you need to worry about everything. Neurotransmitters can go up and down depending on your mood, sleep pattern, diet, genetics, stress, exercise e.t.c. They are never static! Stress and depression raises cortisol for example and that has been proven to effect the immune and cardiovascular system. So a serious worrier (genetically) or over hair will have even changes to their neutrophil levels and cortisol.
What's important is correlating the physiological mechanisms to the clinical symptoms in humans. Otherwise we can all find articles from google which sound smart but really it's only a working theory. The men presenting in a clinic with ED or depression will rarely if ever be due to finasteride. Usually a whole host of other common reasons including placebo, smoking, diabetes, illegal and other notorious prescribed meds. Sure finasteride can cause sexual sides but it's a minority of patients. I'm not just saying because it's kept my hair full with no sides or the fact that some of my friends/colleagues take it just fine and are in demanding top jobs, that's just personal anecdotes but it does actually correlate with the trials. If you have say prior hormonal issues or hypochondria, it may not be the drug of choice but for healthy men it's worth trying and T is the most critical for an erection not DHT. DHT in fact causes hair loss, acne, enlarged prostate and insulin resistance. It's important in a child growing up but beyond that it is mostly disposable as seen in the pseudohermaphrodites. dutasteride may decrease sperm count irreversibly due to it being stronger but again, will it stop a healthy man having a child? finasteride has a better safety profile here admittedly.
As for the prostate cancer thing the explanation is simple. finasteride reduces your prostate size, so later in life you won't suffer from obstructive urinary symptoms due to bph and so you won't see your Dr. This is benign but in some cases they actually have cancer, so rather than finasteride causing cancer it masks the detection till a later stage because the symptoms are not present due to finasteride. Any older man who knows a thing or two about health can just check his PSA yearly and do screening to combat this rare high grade form of prostate cancer. Overall finasteride reduces the risk of all the common type of prostate cancers one may encounter as an older man. It's like when they said the hair counts decrease on finasteride yearly and showed that famous curve - so it only prevents the inevitable for years, it sucks! Well aside from having an extra decade of full hair being truly worth it, the reason the counts went down is the non respondents were the ones who got worse, those who responded stayed the same/kept improving/very mild non cosmetic loss as the trials show. Even the non respondents were benefiting hugely compared to the placebo group - hair count gap keeps increasing yearly between the two groups. Delaying treatment for a year or more also means odds are you can never catch up with the group who took it from the beginning including your hypothetical self and increases chance of no response - so it's not just how bad your hair genetics are but also timimg of treatment.
https://academic.oup.com/jnci/advan...3/jnci/djy035/4925555?redirectedFrom=fulltext
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2018/03/reducing-your-risk-of-prostate-cancer.html
http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/downloads/Rossi_Finasteride_10Yr_ 2011.pdf
My opinion would not change even if I experienced ED, that's just my luck, the drug is safe and so far there is no clinically proven relevant interaction with other systems of the body in humans resulting in serious diseases.
One thing from the report you quoted:
The AUA clinical practice guideline reported erectile problems in 8% and 4% of patients taking finasteride and placebo, respectively
So if you substitute it, that's 4%, which is not dissimilar to the Merck Propecia trial - and the AUA one was in old men over 65.
That's the main worry (being a non responder) because it makes life very hard since the options are limited at present or other actual risky drugs unlike this candy.
@Wolf Pack I will look into the articles you posted along with the rest of your post in the weekend when I have more time.
Edit: saw that in your last sentence you refered to finasteride as candy...Makes me already less likely to do any effort to read the rest to be honest.
Edit: saw that in your last sentence you refered to finasteride as candy...Makes me already less likely to do any effort to read the rest to be honest.
Night
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Wolfpack isn't saying that finasteride is literally candy, he is saying that compared to some hard drugs other people take it's like candy. I never got why people are so weirded out with pills, if you have bad effects just stop taking them. It's not hard. Side effects go away.
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I think the exaggeration of side effects is strictly linked to the lack of results in some people.
If finasteride worked visibly for everyone, maybe fewer people would think about the possible side effects and they would just enjoy the re-found hair.
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I was expected you to realise I didn't literally mean it's candy and was half fooling around. But yes, even when you think of something that you can obtain without a prescription like Ibuprofen, it can still cause numerous long term sides if you take it daily like gastritis, kidney damage or ulcers. So in my experience, finasteride is like candy in the world of prescription drugs for healthy men (physically and mentally). Even placebo can "mess up" someone who is a big worrier. As @Night wrote, if you got sides just drop it but it's worth a try. You've been a member on here for 8 years and I don't know your hair or regimen situation but I'm hoping you at least gave it a real shot rather than let the hair go without a fight. Personally I'd be quite depressed in such a situation but may be you're better off without medication if you'll always worry when you take it despite solid evidence in it's favour.
Yep, if the pill regrew it all they would be enjoying themselves too much to may be worry or obsess about the temporary sides. But also the sexual sides are frightening in a young man which leads to sides already in their mind and I think that's a big reason. Young men get psychological ED and report to the Dr fairly often, add in someone balding, mega depressed and then on a "dick killer" like finasteride - the libido will be shot already. Most of the hardcore finasteride haters on that forum believed they had dementia or multiple sclerosis from the pill....enough said about their knowledge and health.
The comparrison with ibuprofen is not really a good one. Most people are not taking Ibuprofen on a daily basis and even though pretty much everyone has had an ibuprofen in their life, there are no message boards dedicated to post ibuprofen syndrome. Sure, I know that propeciahelp is a lot of fear mongering and that anecdotes are just anecdotes but still... There are simply too many anecdotes to not add some question marks to some of the finasteride studies regarding side effects, and that is a statement coming from someone with a background in science.
I became a member here because my hair worries already started before my male pattern baldness started (having a bald dad and maternal grandfather does that to a long-haired insecure young man whose identity and self-worth was way too attached to his hair). IActually hinning started 3-4 years ago and it is now almost exactly 3 years ago since I took my first finasteride pill. After 2 weeks on the drug I got the infamous crash (in my case when I was still on it, not after). Before I started taking the pill I literally had zero fear of side effects. The first side effect I got was a 90% decrease in ejaculate after 10 days on finasteride. I actually remember googling if it could be flu related since I had a bad flu at the time. I did not even draw the connection to finasteride. One day later I could not get an erection, I had a weird feeling in my head and by the end of that day I went to the hospital because I felt like I was about to have a stroke. There was something off in my brain and I remember trying to explain it to the doctor but I could simply not verbalize any of my thoughts anymore.
Most of the mental side effects cleared up but my sexual side effects got worse. After 8 months on finasteride I quit the drop but it would be 7 months after quiting when I got my first real erection again (still not as firm as it used to be). After this, I had some ups and downs but it took me 1,5 year to be able to function again and only now since a few months I am starting to get more regular morning erections back.
So what about the hair? My 8 months on finasteride did not do much for my hair. Maybe in the end, the shedding got less, maybe not. It was not significant and maybe if I had been on the drug for much longer I would have gotten results. I am now off finasteride since june 2016 and my hair has not changed much... Still a Norwood II at almost 28, and due to the texture of my hair I look like a fullhead. My hairline has outlived the hairline of both my dad and my maternal grandfather and I have no idea how it is possible. I have used nizoral, dermarolling and zix on-and-off for the last year but I have no idea if any of those had any effect on me.
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@INT Actually a lot of people do take Ibuprofen for chronic pain conditions which will include daily use. How about aspirin then? Many take that to prevent cardiovascular complications yet it increases the risk of haemorrhagic stroke and GI bleeding which are serious problems. I'm glad your hair is doing okay, you probably don't have any serious hair loss which is good for you. As for your experience, did you do any blood work and what did it show? I'm talking full blood profile including hormones to show if there is hypopituitarism or something unrelated to finasteride but emerged by coincidence. Stories can be moving but evidence based medicine is all that matters in the end as people sometimes have widespread experiences despite physiologically having almost the same result. Until then, it stays as psychosomatic to me.