How to maximize result of DHT blockers and deny side effects

docj077

Senior Member
Reaction score
1
Bryan said:
docj077 said:
Increased IGF-1 levels in the scalp is associated with vertex baldness

Do you have a reference or citation for that claim? That would appear to contradict the material I posted recently over on HLH saying that IGF-1 is a powerful mitogen for hair follicles.

docj077 said:
DHT itself is quite likely what upregulates the production of IGF-1 in balding scalp.

I'd really like to see some evidence for that, or even just that IGF-1 is "associated" with balding.

This is all I've really found wiht regards to IGF-1 and vertex baldness, but it is interesting nonetheless.

J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Jun;42(6):1003-7 Vertex balding, plasma insulin-like growth factor 1, and insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3. Platz EA, Pollak MN, Willett WC, Giovannucci E.

BACKGROUND: A recent report suggested that men with vertex balding have higher levels of plasma insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1). The association of its major carrier protein, insulin-like growth factor binding protein 3 (IGFBP-3), with male pattern hair loss has not been examined. OBJECTIVE: We evaluated the relations of plasma concentrations of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 with vertex balding in middle-aged and elderly men. METHODS: Participants were 431 male members of the Health Professionals Follow-up Study who responded to a question in 1992 on their hair pattern at 45 years of age and who were 47 to 81 years old when they provided a blood specimen in 1993-1994. Odds ratios (ORs) of vertex balding associated with IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 were estimated from logistic regression models mutually adjusting for each other and controlling for age at blood draw. RESULTS: Of the 431 men, 128 had vertex balding at age 45. Compared with men who were not balding, for a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGF-1 level (72.4 ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 1. 31 (95% CI, 0.95-1.81). For a 1 standard deviation increase in plasma IGFBP-3 (957 ng/mL), the OR for vertex balding was 0.62 (95% CI, 0.44-0.8. CONCLUSION: Older men with vertex balding have lower circulating levels of IGFBP-3 and higher levels of IGF-1 when controlling for IGFBP-3 level


J Am Acad Dermatol 1999 Feb;40(2 Pt 1):200-3 Hormones and hair patterning in men: a role for insulin-like growth factor 1? Signorello LB, Wuu J, Hsieh C, Tzonou A, Trichopoulos D, Mantzoros CS.

BACKGROUND: Androgens are important in hair growth and patterning, whereas growth hormone substitution enhances their effect in growth hormone-deficient men. No previous study has jointly evaluated the function of sex steroids, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), and insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) in determining hair patterning in men. OBJECTIVE: We assessed the relationship between circulating hormone measurements and both head and chest hair patterning in a sample of elderly men. METHODS: Fifty-one apparently healthy men older than 65 years of age were studied cross-sectionally. Head and chest hair patterning was assessed by a trained interviewer. Morning blood samples from all subjects were used for measurements of testosterone, estradiol, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, SHBG, and IGF-1. RESULTS: Results were obtained from logistic regression models, adjusting simultaneously for all the measured hormones and age. Men with higher levels of testosterone were more likely to have vertex baldness (odds ratio [OR] = 2.5, 95% confidence interval [CI: 0.9 to 7.8] per 194 ng/dL increment of testosterone). In addition, for each 59 ng/mL increase in IGF-1, the odds of having vertex baldness doubled (95% CI [1.0 to 4.6]). Those who were found to have higher circulating levels of SHBG were less likely to have dense hair on their chest (OR = 0.4, 95% CI [0.1 to 0.9] per 24 nmol/L increment in SHBG]). CONCLUSION: Testosterone, SHBG, and IGF-1 may be important in determining hair patterning in men.
 
G

Guest

Guest
So I'm too tired and lazy to go through all these posts in this thread. Besides my english is not quite good enough for reading those scientific articles. I suffer from inflammation, not severe but noticiable. I think it's holding me back. What supplements should I try for reducing the itch and inflammation?

My current regimen:

-finasteride 0.75 mg per day
-minoxidil foam about 7-10 times per week (I'm not using it religiously 2 times per day)
-T/gel anti-dandruff shampoo with pironolactone olamine and salisylic acid every day (has helped the inflammation a bit)
-Omega 3 supplement 650 mg per day
-Zinc 15 mg per day
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
I would add some antioxidants. Oxidative stress can stimulate TGF-beta family too, so it is wise to get avoid of this. I would tak Cranberry as it is one of the strong antioxidants and also Resveratrol, which are also pretty cheap. In fact, all berries are great antioxidants! Grape Seed and Pomegranate are also great.

Green tea is great antioxidant, but I think it is preferable to drink it in larger amounts. I would eat antioxidants during all day through food like fruit with Vitamin C and E. Supplement before bed time and take strongest antioxidant after each exercise!

Just write antioxidants or antioxidants list into google and you will find tons of list with antioxidants.

OMEGA 3 - that really helps with inflammation

My doctor (I am not consulting these theories with her but I always ask about safe dosage) told me that safe limit is considered 1000-3000mg EPA+DHA per day.

Right now I am using Omega 3 complex which has 1 mg Fish oil and it contains 180mg EPA and 120mg DHA. She told me that as safe is considered 1000-3000mg EPA+DHA per day.

So I could take about 9 capsules per day (9 g fish oil) if I want and I am trying this. She told me that 1 capsule per day (stated on bottles) is for children, healthy adult should take 2 per day, someone who is after illness 4 caps per day (1200mg EPA+DHA/daily) and people with heavy illness like psoriasis or eczematous dermatitis take even 12 capsules per day. So I take 1000-3000mg EPA+DHA daily as safe limit and take about 8 capsules per day (just check your bottle for your EPA+DHA values in each capsule).

It is best to eat Omega 3 with food as you compensate Omega 6 intake.

Food causing inflammation: junk food, high-fat meats (processed meats such as lunch meats, hot dogs and sausages), sugar (sodas, soft drinks, pastries, presweetened cereals and candy), fast foods

Food fighting agains inflammation: Omega 3, olive oil, protein, lean poultry, fish, seafood, whole grain, fiber, whole fruits, berries, pure fresh 100% juices, water.
http://www.metabolismadvice.com/anti_inflammatory_food/


Inflammation is present in balding scalp areas (according to studies which focused on this).
 

dresden

Established Member
Reaction score
0
All this stuff is confusing.. every product you guys mention have their positive effect but then also a negative one. I dont think changing your diet will make any difference if your hair loss is aggressive.
 

docj077

Senior Member
Reaction score
1
bustabucket said:
The anabolic diet increases IGF-1: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=658379

Could be another option.

A high protein/low carb diet like that will increase your IGF-1 levels, but only until you spike your carbohydrate intake. Once you do that, the increased insulin levels will inhibit growth hormone production, and thus, IGF-1 production from the liver. It's the low carbohydrate intake that increases growth hormone production and gluconeogenesis in the liver.

Balance your diet, so you never spike or bottom out your hormones at all. That is the key to having a healthy body. You won't be able to do that with the diet you've posted.
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
dresden said:
All this stuff is confusing.. every product you guys mention have their positive effect but then also a negative one. I dont think changing your diet will make any difference if your hair loss is aggressive.

Well I have written positive effect about products so if you mentioned that there are negative one could you be specific as I was? It is easy to say that something has negative side but not mention which it is.
 
G

Guest

Guest
So you're saying protein is good for anti-inflammation. How many eggs should I eat per day? Is one enough?
 

MSFB

Established Member
Reaction score
1
wow. so much information, so little i understand.

seems to me that a balanced diet (as people have been saying for years) is the way to go. little bits of all foods can help you in one way or another but too much of anything can be bad.
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
Well it depends...there is food that is created by refined way so why should anyone ever involve this food into his diet?

If you check several nations and their diets, you will find that less refined food (refined starches, refined sugar, refined dairy, refined grains) the better they skin and hair are. The more refined and the worse food is, more acne and baldness occur. Food affect hormones balance in huge way I guess.
 

I_Hate_DHT

Established Member
Reaction score
0
lol... you will take all that sh*t???

for me, finas+minoxidil is more than enough..

it's funny to see some people taking a combo of 20 different things every day and applying lots of stuff in their heads... i wonder how much time to lost of your life already, worring about hairloss.. when you know you will finish losing all one day and fall in HM in 10 years...

and applying/taking 50 products will finish doing the same effect as minoxidil+finas alone... :lol:

and this diet theory has been posted by other users many times in this forum and has been proved to be total bullsh-it... Believe me, i have been losing my hair for 10 years and i have already proven everything.. just save yourself some time. :)
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
Yes, minoxidil is nice wig just try not to apply it for three months and you will see how many hair do you actually have.

OK so show me these proofs? I would like to see that. On the other hand I have seen and talked to people who regrowth and stop their hairloss by total change in diet. Just tell me which diet you have applied (you have tried everything right?) and for how long time so I can consider....I believe rather to science than to some crap that anyone on forum says :)

Anyway, I eat all pills with food, so no hassles for me. And I dont think that finasteride+minoxidil can REVERSE baldness which means that you will be regrowing hair for some time and than stop but not start loosing it again.

If it is just about DHT, which is very important factor, than Dutasteride would completely stop hairloss...
 

I_Hate_DHT

Established Member
Reaction score
0
ok.. go and do it.. remember to do it for some years and then come back to this forum, i want to see your results.. :lol:

ah.. also try to read more.. DHT just plays a role in male pattern baldness.. it's not ALL about DHT... this has been already said a trillion of times... you need to read more... use the "search" feature.
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
Wait - you have said that you have proven everything, so just tell me how your diet and supplements looked like??

I think it wont take much time if you write it right here in a few seconds... DHT, ....?:) I have never said that it is all about DHT, in fact if you read my posts you will, surprisingly, relalize that I have mentioned many other factors....

I tell you that there are many scientific studies which points to the fact that diet plays an important role in your hormones. I can prove it, if you have some proof that diet did not help to someone, why you just point to ANY SINGLE CASE? :lol:

Everyone is able to say that it is like this, because it is simply like this and that is the reason :lol:
 

I_Hate_DHT

Established Member
Reaction score
0
like i said.. why are you wasting your time and keep asking in this forum about it??

just go and do it!!!.. remember to do it for some years and then come back to this forum, i want to see your results :lol:


I have never ever seen so much hate in another forum, other than this..

Maybe male pattern baldness is also linked to high level of hateness?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

HairLessGR

Member
Reaction score
0
I hope you are right Tomas since my diet is and has mostly been quite healthy but i seriously doubt that diet has a lot to do with hairloss.
Maybe some food could do some damage but i don't think that a proper diet could do substantial good.
I was in a shop today and i saw a 4 year old photo of mick jagger and richards from a concert. They were something like 200 years old, they had a pretty unhealthy life full of alcohol, drugs e.t.c. i bet their diet hasn't been a bit as healthy as mine (...or in general) and yet they had so much hair on their heads.
I know that you are so much into it at the moment so you'll insist on your ideas but...
All in all i hope you're right.
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
lol... you will take all that $#iT???

it's funny to see some people taking a combo of 20 different things every day and applying lots of stuff in their heads... i wonder how much time to lost of your life already, worring about hairloss.. when you know you will finish losing all one day and fall in HM in 10 years...

and applying/taking 50 products will finish doing the same effect as minoxidil+finas alone... :lol:

As you can see, if there is hate it is only in your messages, I have never showed any hate on this forum and in this thread I always back up all theories with studies. Suddenly, you came here and say "thats bull/sh*t", "its funny" so I ask you if you have any proofs that prove I am mistaken? It is easy to say something does not work, usually people who did not achieve anything great say it can never work. You present as a person that know everything about hairloss.

Do you see any hate in these words? Only hate I saw was in your reaction to post of one guy with still good but receeded temples.

I promise I will post some picks if there is any reverse of my hairloss (by that I mean regrowth at temples) so if I don't show any, you can expect it did not work for me.
 

tomas99

Established Member
Reaction score
2
HairLessGR said:
I hope you are right Tomas since my diet is and has mostly been quite healthy but i seriously doubt that diet has a lot to do with hairloss.
Maybe some food could do some damage but i don't think that a proper diet could do substantial good.
I was in a shop today and i saw a 4 year old photo of mick jagger and richards from a concert. They were something like 200 years old, they had a pretty unhealthy life full of alcohol, drugs e.t.c. i bet their diet hasn't been a bit as healthy as mine (...or in general) and yet they had so much hair on their heads.
I know that you are so much into it at the moment so you'll insist on your ideas but...
All in all i hope you're right.

Well OK, could you tell me how your typical diet looks like, some examples? Because I could mean something different. Healthy diet, that one which is presented in media and health magazines is really different from diet for hair. E.g. cereals are IMHO not very good for hair ....

If I mean healthy diet for hair, I mean something like this:

Only fresh vegetable (or boiled vegetable instead of pasta, potatoes etc.) and fruits
if grains than only whole grain but not very often
Protein and good fats should be your main source of food
Meat only seafood, fishes
chicken only free-range
if red meat than only grass-fed
Drinking only water, tea, and FRESH fruit juice that you make from fresh fruits, not from bottle
Only brown rice and never alone
minimum potatoes (if you can than eliminate it)
no pasta
no vegetable oils (prepare meat only on grill)
Not too much alcoholespecially not beer.
Red wine ok
It means no pasta, no spaghetti, no baken pork, no cereals for breakfast, no bread and the list goes on.

But this would be ideal, if possible than no processed food. It is nearly impossible, also if you eat time to time potatoes or pizza once per month it should not hurt.
 
Top