Insulin resistance, PCOS, and male pattern baldness

[123000123]

Wow..

Diazoxide lowers insulin, reduces blood glucose levels, raises SHBG and improves insulin sensitivity.

I'd bet:

Diazoxide
Finasteride
Low dose doxycycline

would cure male pattern baldness...

I'm almost tempted to ask my doctor for it! Don't know how well that'd go down though.. He probably already thinks I'm as neurotic as they come.. if I start going on about insulin and obscure diabetic medication he'll probably boot me out of his office..

Hmm, seriously though! I'd have no idea about dosing though, it looks pretty potent..

 

[Hoppi]

Hmm, very interesting!

Perhaps I'll cut the grains even MORE (I do allow some to slip in occasionally!). I also eat a fair amount of fruit, and I do like my carbs >.< (rice, potatoes, etc)

Should I sway my diet more in a vegetable direction and drop the carbs and fruits (and sugars) a bit more?

I make sure I get my pomegranate every day though, as it has natural estrogens which I believe help the body to decrease the harmful estrogens (estradiol yeah?), it also apparently lowers insulin resistance, and inhibits aromatase.

I still think my hair loss was a bit too closely tied to sudden digestive problems to be caused by anything else (literally, within 3 months of the problems starting I must have started losing hair and my skin went thin ) but I certainly agree that all these things have connections to one's likelihood of balding.

It's so nice to read some more threads about this - I was holding up this fort all by myself for a long time! lol

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Wow..

Diazoxide lowers insulin, reduces blood glucose levels, raises SHBG and improves insulin sensitivity.

I'd bet:

Diazoxide
Finasteride
Low dose doxycycline

would cure male pattern baldness...

I'm almost tempted to ask my doctor for it! Don't know how well that'd go down though.. He probably already thinks I'm as neurotic as they come.. if I start going on about insulin and obscure diabetic medication he'll probably boot me out of his office..

Hmm, seriously though! I'd have no idea about dosing though, it looks pretty potent..

NO, those are some heavy meds to start taking off-label. It sounds like a potentially dangerous thing to start taking off a whim.

I might have missed you mentioning this before, but why did you include doxycycline in that list as well?

Neither of the first 2 (ignoring the 3rd for now) treatments would be a permanent fix as you'd have to be on those pills for life to assure that neither of the issues they treat returns.

Hoppi, have you looked at soy as being a culprit yet?

 

[big3nme]

This thread is the sort of thing I am VERY interested in. I feel very strongly this is at the root of my problems. I not only am experiencing male pattern baldness but I have scarring alopecia (Lichen Planus) on my head that along with male pattern baldness doesn't appear to have a cure according to derms. I did some of my own research online and found accounts of people taking Actos, a diabetes drug that imrpoves your insulin resistance, and being cured of their lpp.

Im not sure how hypothyroidism plays into all this insulin discussion but I am curious if there is a link there as well.

I also read over on bodybuilding.com often and came across something called a Ketogenic Diet which is basically a no/very low carb, very high fat, and protein diet. It's goal is to get your body into a state of "ketosis" where your body relies on fat instead of carbs for energy.

Sounds like the gluten free diet and the ketogenic diet could overlap quite well and am trying to come up with some simple meals I can use to get started.

My current diet is loaded with gluten im sure.. I eat tons of bread + pasta all day.

Brains, can you post an example basic diet that would be easy to follow?

 

[123000123]

Tetracycline antibiotics do 3 things:

- kill bacteria (bad and good)
- reduce inflammation
- removes toxins

The last 2 i think could be very useful for us hairloss sufferers. I know I certainly notice hardly any shedding when I'm on antibiotics. The problem is, it also messes up the bacteria in your gut and this is most definitely bad for hair, so when you come off you may be back to where you started or worse. But while you're on it the anti inflammatory effects would counteract this. So you might have to either take it forever, or take it in conjunction with probiotics (but I'm still unsure about whether or not this is counterproductive, even if taken a few hours apart).

What do you think?

I guess I was HALF joking about taking Diazoxide, but I do think something like an anti-diabetic drug would close to stop male pattern baldness in its tracks, in addition to stopping the DHT through finasteride and stop inflammation through a tetracycline antibiotic.

 

[Hoppi]

I think the main culprit in hair loss is insulin resistance in the hair follicles on your head. You plasma insulin tests may show you to be normal, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your hair follicles aren't insulin resistant. Also, excessive insulin has been shown to cause an increase in free testosterone and a decrease in SHBG, leaving testosterone to be bound by DHT. More importantly, if the cells are insulin resistant then they can't grow. Every cell needs insulin to divide. If your hair follicles aren't getting it then they'll stop growing. Then, when you get older, there won't be as many genetic "survival" cues floating around, and insulin is one of those survival cues. So, they'll likely die, leaving you permanently bald. This explains the link between insulin resistance and male pattern baldness along with other diseases. Also, it has been shown that diazoxide, a drug that treats insulin resistance, had a side effect of hair growth, and was subsequently used in tests on male pattern baldness subjects (Google it). Most men in the study experienced regrowth. I would bet that those who didn't probably had a stronger genetic predisposition to baldness (by that i mean a stronger predisposition to insulin resistance in the hair follicles), and I presume that they were all eating grain rich diets. Imagine using this drug with a low carb diet!

So, if you're looking for the cure for male pattern baldness, I'm willing to bet that a low-carb diet with low glycemic index foods would stop hair loss, and if you're young and lucky enough, reverse it. If the hair follicles aren't dead then they'll start growing again once they become insulin sensitive again. So ditch the bagel in the morning, sandwich for lunch, and pasta for dinner (and also desserts). You may even experience worsened hair loss at first while the follicles become resensitized to insulin (it's like they're addicted to it). But then it should get better fast. It's just a theory, but I've done a lot of reading and it makes a lot of sense (an not just for male pattern baldness). I know I'll try it.

So.. are you saying that the insulin resistant follicles put up less of a fight in response to androgenic stimulation? or? That's an interesting idea, I don't know enough about the functions of insulin to take this further though or prove/disprove it. Does anyone?

And Brains, no I haven't looked at soy yet as a possible trigger.. although it was also in my diet before all this started. I am very curious to see what the Doctor says it is after the tests are done.

Also I think more trials should be run on the effects of insulin sensitizing and estradiol-reducing treatments on male pattern baldness...

 

[123000123]

Hoppi,

Where did you get the idea that estrogen was bad for hair?

Also, regarding gut function/hair loss, you say it started around the same time as some digestive issues.. have you taken any/many courses of antibiotics recently? Been overseas where you may have picked up a parasite or bug? If you really think your hair problems are related to your gut you should get some tests done. Go to a naturopath (one with a medical degree) and they can test for everything. I had a stool test and they found a parasite, and had a breath test and it showed signs of e.coli (I don't know how accurate this was - but treated it just in case). Regardless, probiotics are a must.





I'm going to keep looking in to anti-diabetic/insulin lowering medications as possible treatments for male pattern baldness... anyone else think there's anything in this? I have no doubt that insulin resistance can accelerate/worsen the male pattern baldness process in individuals who are prone to balding.

 

[Broons85]

So.. are you saying that the insulin resistant follicles put up less of a fight in response to androgenic stimulation? or? That's an interesting idea, I don't know enough about the functions of insulin to take this further though or prove/disprove it. Does anyone?

And Brains, no I haven't looked at soy yet as a possible trigger.. although it was also in my diet before all this started. I am very curious to see what the Doctor says it is after the tests are done.

Also I think more trials should be run on the effects of insulin sensitizing and estradiol-reducing treatments on male pattern baldness...

Sort of. I think that the insulin resistant hair follicles can't use insulin to grow. It's no surprise that drugs that make one less insulin resistant have the side effect of hair growth. Insulin signaling pathways are used by even bacteria in order to grow, or not grow if there's no food source around. If the hair follicle has stopped responding to the positive growth signal of insulin, then it will stay put, and when you get older, die.

As for androgenic stimulation? I think it's likely an artifact, something that doesn't really matter in the big picture. There's definitely some sort of feedback going on between free testosterone and insulin. The more insulin signaling you have, the less free testosterone you have because it's bound by SHBG. When insulin stops, as is the case in insulin resistance, you still have the free testosterone around, but not the SHBG (which goes down in insulin-resistance), and that's when DHT takes over. High levels of DHT may be toxic and cause the hair follicle to stop growing even more, which may be why DHT inhibitors work a bit. But I think the underlying issue is that the hair follicle is no longer getting the growth signal from insulin, and isn't using glucose to grow and divide etc. That's my opinion. I could explain more in molecular detail but it's probably not relevant on a forum like this haha.

 

[123000123]

Broons,

So is diet/exercise by itself enough to significantly reduce insulin resistance overall, let alone improve the "insulin resistant hair follicles"?

How long would one have to pursue such a diet to do this, and how strict would one have to be? Would they need to eliminate every single grain/sugar/carb? Or would a diet consisting of just complex/low-glycemic carbs be sufficient?

What would be the risks in taking a medication designed for diabetics if one is only "pre-diabetic" to lower insulin resistance? Could you take a "lower" dose to improve resistance/lower blood sugar to an acceptable amount only?



I don't want to seem like I'm just looking to medication for an easy way out rather than improving diet/exercise, but if it's one of those things where it could take a year of strict dieting and exercise in order to "maybe" see results, this is slow and hardly practical/possible for most people.


I've read that many women with PCOS (described as women's version of male pattern baldness) take Actos to lower insulin and raise SHBG with success. Why wouldn't the same work for us?

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

How strict you are on the diet will determine the depth and speed of your success. Additionally it's going to depend heavily on what the status of your damage is at the time of starting and what specific pancreas/liver genes you have.

Most people notice results fairly quickly. While most of my clients have been on the lower end of the diabetic scale (pre-diabetes or just mild insulin resistance), most of them report measurable improvements in just 2-3 months. Additionally I worked a study with a high diabetes population and even though we noticed (covertly) that they weren't following all of our recommendations as much as they reported they were, we still ended up seeing improvements in the ones who actually tried in just 6 months time.

Eliminating every single carb would be probably much more stressful than it's worth. Considering you don't have type-I diabetes it shouldn't stress you out to eat a chocolate bar or tasty pasta dish every once and a while. Even a "low carb" diet can technically mean that 30% of your total calories come from carbs. Considering most people on a westernized diet are up in the >60% range, 30% would be a huge improvement. Considering you're no where near the high end of metabolic disorder I doubt you'd need drastic changes, although that could be a relative statement. Most people would consider giving up eating sandwiches and hamburgers/pasta/pizza every ay a "drastic change". But hell, when the most unhealthy part about a greasy hamburger ends up being the bun, maybe it's time to rethink the standard american diet.

 

[123000123]

Thanks Brains.

Do you have any opinion on my thoughts regarding medication as a possible "treatment"? Please address especially the link with PCOS if you can...

Many thanks again

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi,

Where did you get the idea that estrogen was bad for hair?

Also, regarding gut function/hair loss, you say it started around the same time as some digestive issues.. have you taken any/many courses of antibiotics recently? Been overseas where you may have picked up a parasite or bug? If you really think your hair problems are related to your gut you should get some tests done. Go to a naturopath (one with a medical degree) and they can test for everything. I had a stool test and they found a parasite, and had a breath test and it showed signs of e.coli (I don't know how accurate this was - but treated it just in case). Regardless, probiotics are a must.





I'm going to keep looking in to anti-diabetic/insulin lowering medications as possible treatments for male pattern baldness... anyone else think there's anything in this? I have no doubt that insulin resistance can accelerate/worsen the male pattern baldness process in individuals who are prone to balding.

Well, a fair number of people including myself suspect that estradiol may be linked to AR upregulation (explaining the prostate link quite well).

On another note, I have just started my tests through my GP, so although it sounds weird I do hope something is found as that would explain my drop in digestive health and get me back on track to where I was about 15 or so months ago before aaaaaaall this started! Please let it be nearly over!!!!

 

[armandein]

I think the main culprit in hair loss is insulin resistance in the hair follicles on your head

Hi Broos85;
All ideas are wellcome, but in common hairloss or male pattern baldness, the pattern (P) is the key, why diet afect only at certains hairs?

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

I actually just heard about this drug first in this post as well. I haven't had anytime to read up on it so I can't really help out here.

 

[Hoppi]

To be honest, the more I think the more I become increasingly suspicious of the role that carbohydrate and also dairy may play in the increase in male pattern balding.

It's just.. the thing is about carbohydrate is that I just don't think it has been central in our diet for very long. Correct me if I'm wrong. But surely even rice, we have only been ingesting since we had agriculture.. surely?

So, doesn't this mean that our body is really more geared up for a fibre and protein rich diet, with carbohydrate forming only a limited part of it and not a core element?

I suppose nuts are an exception, but even they tend to be mostly fatty I believe.

So - rice, potatoes, bread/grain. None of those are foods that we would have been eating to a great extent in our earlier days walking the planet (the anthropologist in me comes out at this point!).

Carbs peak insulin and I believe dairy raises estrogen. Beer does both. Go figure. hehe

But anyway, very suspicious

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Archeological findings point to the consumption of tubers far back into caveman times. As for the rest of those substances though, you are correct we didn't start consuming grains/legumes until the agricultural revolution which is very recent in historical terms (10,000 years ago). We've only been consuming milk for about 7,000 years or so as well. So that's 10,000 years for that type of diet (along with exponentially lowered affect from natural selection) vs over 2 million years from a non-carb based diet (and high levels of natural selection).

Nuts are very low carb, the each serving of the bag of walnuts I'm snacking on right now contains 180 Calories from fat, 20 Cal of protein and 16 Cal of carbs. Nuts would have been a part of the diet long ago, just not a staple most likely something to eat when other sources were low. Coincidentally nuts are also responsible for a large number of some of the most deadly allergies.

 

[Hoppi]

I do think there's a real chance these things have a relation to male pattern baldness. It does seem to be people who live for chips, pasties, beer, etc, those people tend to bald MUCH faster.. but again correct me if I'm wrong!

It's definitely something that would benefit from some research I think...

 

[Bryan]

Hoppi,

Where did you get the idea that estrogen was bad for hair?

Well, a fair number of people including myself suspect that estradiol may be linked to AR upregulation (explaining the prostate link quite well).

Oh, so you suspect that estradiol may be linked to AR upregulation, even though (as I've pointed out to you before) you have no scientific evidence to suggest such a thing, and the exact OPPOSITE of that is probably just as likely to be the case. I suspect that I'll win the Texas State Lottery if I submit my birthday in the number, which makes about as much sense as what you just said.

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi,

Where did you get the idea that estrogen was bad for hair?

Well, a fair number of people including myself suspect that estradiol may be linked to AR upregulation (explaining the prostate link quite well).

Oh, so you suspect that estradiol may be linked to AR upregulation, even though (as I've pointed out to you before) you have no scientific evidence to suggest such a thing, and the exact OPPOSITE of that is probably just as likely to be the case. I suspect that I'll win the Texas State Lottery if I submit my birthday in the number, which makes about as much sense as what you just said.

I'm still allowed to have suspicions

I suspect insulin, estrogen, malabsorption and nutrient deficiencies, high testosterone, low SHBG... many things hehe

 

[Bryan]

The scientific evidence that estrogen stimulates the growth of balding scalp hair follicles means a hell of a lot more to me than your silly "suspicions" about it! :smack: