Is Dermarolling This Bloody? (warning Scary Pic)

[killme]

i was reading this article:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/news/new-research/follicas-new-hair-loss-treatment-might-hurt/

that pic looks scary....... wtf

im considering dermarolling but that looks like a mess.

do you take a shower after dermarolling? how are going to leave blood in your scalp all day? and how are you going to take a shower? the shower would hurt as water drops travel at fast speeds hitting ur wounds

 

[Rocknroutlaw]

I do 2.0-2.25mm wounding on a regular basis, usually once a week.
Personally, I think it's more important to have a clean scalp before micro-needling so I only do wounding at such depths immediately after hair-wash.
It can look as bloody as the pic shows, but it's all surface bleeding and never really continue oozing blood. I find that wiping off the blood immediately prevents the scalp from being covered by visible scabs the next day.

 

[pizzadriver1933]

I'm not dermarolling but i'm wodnering as well, how exactly would the procedure look like?

Shower first, to have a clean scalp, then dermarolling, then just leave it bloody? Or shower again?

 

[The last of the follicles]

All you need is 0,5 twice a week. The rest are memes.

 

[Retinoid]

It can look like that, depending how hard, much and length of needles you are using. It does not HAVE to look like that to be effective. But you want some redness and slight bleeding (blood spots, not actual blood dripping).

 

[FOLLICLOLZ]

@killme the most cited controlled study is the Dhurat work which used 1.5 mm for wounding intermittently:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

Anecdotally, a lot of users are also reporting success with more frequent use of a 0.5 me depth for aiding absorption of topicals.

 

[brohawk]

Go harder/bloodier than that. You need to achieve erythema as per Dhurat's study, so get the skin to start turning purple. It looks bad but it's just blood from beneath the skin, not any type of open wound. I generally shower right before so my scalp's a bit softer, roll until erythema, rinse the blood off w/ water which eliminates any scabbing, then apply LiCl and/or other topicals.

 

[killme]

Go harder/bloodier than that. You need to achieve erythema as per Dhurat's study, so get the skin to start turning purple. It looks bad but it's just blood from beneath the skin, not any type of open wound. I generally shower right before so my scalp's a bit softer, roll until erythema, rinse the blood off w/ water which eliminates any scabbing, then apply LiCl and/or other topicals.

Wow, that is scary as f***. Did you at least good results? how often?

The best results i've seen are from user Somebody which uses it daily but 0.5 so i guess its just from increased minoxidil absorption

 

[killme]

I'm not dermarolling but i'm wodnering as well, how exactly would the procedure look like?

Shower first, to have a clean scalp, then dermarolling, then just leave it bloody? Or shower again?

theres no way leaving dry blood in there is healthy

also high risk in infection doing this thing... how do you guys clean it?

 

[brohawk]

Wow, that is scary as f***. Did you at least good results? how often?

The best results i've seen are from user Somebody which uses it daily but 0.5 so i guess its just from increased minoxidil absorption

Yes, I continue to see further results, more than 2 years on my current regimen. I generally wound every 3 weeks. Takes 3 - 4 days after wounding for the redness to go away, so plan on wearing a hat.

0.5mm doesn't get close to the depth of the actual follicle, so yes, it likely just helps w/ minoxidil absorption. If you're already using minoxidil, it's probably fine to use 0.5mm daily (obviously lightly like Somebody does, and not to the point of erythema) in addition to heavier wounding w/ 1.5mm every 3 weeks or so.

 

[Armando Jose]

increased minoxidil absorption

There is some different aproaches to increase absortion, and uncruenty is water
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27356887
There is yet no consensus among prescribers whether minoxidil (MXD) formulations should be applied on wet/damp or dry scalp and no clear FDA guidelines on the matter. We hypothesized that the use of MXD on damp scalp may lead to higher drug penetration. First, because the drug diffusion and consequent deposition into the hair follicle may be favored when follicle cast is humid. Second, because humidity may also prevent drug crystallization and, therefore, maintain a higher thermodynamic activity for longer periods, which leads to increased penetration. Following in vitro experiments on rat and porcine skin we confirmed the hypothesis, which could markedly improve treatment effectiveness.

 

[killme]

There is some different aproaches to increase absortion, and uncruenty is water
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27356887
There is yet no consensus among prescribers whether minoxidil (MXD) formulations should be applied on wet/damp or dry scalp and no clear FDA guidelines on the matter. We hypothesized that the use of MXD on damp scalp may lead to higher drug penetration. First, because the drug diffusion and consequent deposition into the hair follicle may be favored when follicle cast is humid. Second, because humidity may also prevent drug crystallization and, therefore, maintain a higher thermodynamic activity for longer periods, which leads to increased penetration. Following in vitro experiments on rat and porcine skin we confirmed the hypothesis, which could markedly improve treatment effectiveness.

what if the foam also contains a % of finasteride? its also ok to put it after shower in a wet scalp? what if it goes systemic too much? let alone after rolling

 

[killme]

There is some different aproaches to increase absortion, and uncruenty is water
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27356887
There is yet no consensus among prescribers whether minoxidil (MXD) formulations should be applied on wet/damp or dry scalp and no clear FDA guidelines on the matter. We hypothesized that the use of MXD on damp scalp may lead to higher drug penetration. First, because the drug diffusion and consequent deposition into the hair follicle may be favored when follicle cast is humid. Second, because humidity may also prevent drug crystallization and, therefore, maintain a higher thermodynamic activity for longer periods, which leads to increased penetration. Following in vitro experiments on rat and porcine skin we confirmed the hypothesis, which could markedly improve treatment effectiveness.

in addition: if the water is cold the pores become tighter therefore there could be even less penetration than a dry scalp?

but cold is a known anti inflammatory so if you use hot water you would miss that benefit..

 

[inmyhead]

I think you guys have no idea of what dermarolling is. There is not much difference between 0.5 mm and 1.5mm unless you put whole needless in, but I doubt anyone does that. The only difference is that it's hard to roll with 0.5 mm for absorbtion since most of the times needless won't pass your hair to hit the skin.

 

[Yakitori]

I said this in a personal thread but it's very personal. I can run a 1.5mm like a bulldozer and not get a drop of blood or get overly red for long so it's tough to know.

Get one, try it very lightly first on somewhere thick, maybe your arm or something to see how it feels and know what to expect if you don't like needles.

 

[killme]

I think you guys have no idea of what dermarolling is. There is not much difference between 0.5 mm and 1.5mm unless you put whole needless in, but I doubt anyone does that. The only difference is that it's hard to roll with 0.5 mm for absorbtion since most of the times needless won't pass your hair to hit the skin.

Well there are two schools of dermarolling:

1) The one that says you must inflict massive damage (reach the follicle, so around 1.5mm balls deep) and this will generate certain growth factors, do this like once a month or bi weekly

2) The one that says you just must do it to improve absorption of topicals, so not pressing much, just to create superficial holes, then they apply the minoxidil or whatever. I still think this is insane, it must sting like a mofo to put topicals on open wounds even if superficial. Some even do this daily. User "Somebody" got massive regrowth but it just could be another awesome finasteride responder.

WHO IS CORRECT?

 

[inmyhead]

Well there are two schools of dermarolling:

1) The one that says you must inflict massive damage (reach the follicle, so around 1.5mm balls deep) and this will generate certain growth factors, do this like once a month or bi weekly

2) The one that says you just must do it to improve absorption of topicals, so not pressing much, just to create superficial holes, then they apply the minoxidil or whatever. I still think this is insane, it must sting like a mofo to put topicals on open wounds even if superficial. Some even do this daily. User "Somebody" got massive regrowth but it just could be another awesome finasteride responder.

WHO IS CORRECT?

I have zero pain after wounding and puting minoxidil on.

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

Dhurat used 1,5mm for the study

 

[itsjustsimon]

Well there are two schools of dermarolling:

1) The one that says you must inflict massive damage (reach the follicle, so around 1.5mm balls deep) and this will generate certain growth factors, do this like once a month or bi weekly

2) The one that says you just must do it to improve absorption of topicals, so not pressing much, just to create superficial holes, then they apply the minoxidil or whatever. I still think this is insane, it must sting like a mofo to put topicals on open wounds even if superficial. Some even do this daily. User "Somebody" got massive regrowth but it just could be another awesome finasteride responder.

WHO IS CORRECT?

@Somebody, how long did you use finasteride before you start dermarolling + finasteride?

 

[kiwipilu]

From my experience It does not necessarily depends on the needles length. It depends on the hairloss pattern. If you have almost slick bald area you should notice less blood . and where there are more hairs you (should) have more blood . Well that’s my case at least...
people with diffuse should see the best improvment obviously like the cases from the indian study.
On the picture we can see there is less blood on the border of the hairline and near temples where there are less hairs… this is linked to fibrosis (from my reading), and this is a long process to reverse it.
When I started dermaroller, I just had few blood scabs. Now, after having used dermaroller for almost 1 year and few months I notice more blood. btw my hairloss situation hasnt gotten any worse
secondly, to me it does not make sense to use dermaroller to enhance minoxidil absorption because if You apply minoxidil topically this is to avoid systematic absorption in the first place. whats the point to make it go systematic?low dose loniten like..
IF you want to use dermaroller properly(wound healing process), you should use 1,5 every 2/3 weeks. (or see indian study). and no minoxidil during 24h. but you can use a particular topical such as licl/vpa but hey you can do whatever you want ; )